Dichotomy of opinion regarding opinions

[xristos.anesti]

Since couple of weeks ago, since I saw a show on TV regarding born-again, bible-only evangelical groups in so called “Bible belt” – I started thinking about what makes us the way we are – as far as opinions about God are concerned.

I was 7th Day Adventist for some time and at that time I was sure that SDA was “THE CHURCH” and that all others were not.

Before that I was a communist, and at that time – whilst carrying Manifesto of the Communist Party in my top left jacket pocket (literally) I was sure that God did not exist and that was it.

Now I am an Orthodox, and whilst still subscribing to “all that was passed on for us and our salvation without change, addition or deletion” (and still being thankful for it) I am wondering what is the correct way of treating those who disagree with me.

I go, from time to time, to General Theology and that is new – well I used to go before, some 2 years ago and I would get upset, red in the face and angry ready to jump into the world of electronic communication and rip the heart out of the person I did not agree with.

These days it is different, for a single reason.

Now, I might be different, but I think that the only reason we get upset when someone disagrees with us (in General Theology, for example) is our selfishness. I do not think that I have ever been truly worried about other person (one who disagrees with me) for that very reason: that is, me being Orthodox and him/her not – me being worried that should they stay heterodox they will go to hell, thus the need of me being worried.

I am selfish, but what is worse than your normal selfishness (keep the chocolate to myself and not share with my little brother – kind of selfishness) is pretending that I care about God and when I argue with someone I argue with, because I am trying to help God so that this person might “see the truth”. Seriously, ME helping God, Me showing light, ME causing them to see light?! ME? What is that I can show anyone? Oh yes, sin in action.

Dislike of the idea (that one disagrees with) turns so fast into a genuine dislike of the person, being the carrier of the idea. And dislike turns into hate, and hate is very bad.

It can not be an action of the Holy Spirit that one should hate his brother for the sake of God. So, it is possible to hate someone for the sake of God? If I am honest to myself – and I will try – it appears to me that it is.

So, whose action would it be – action of making me hate someone for the sake of God? And further to that, am I really hating someone for the sake of God or am I actually hating someone for they are “stupid” and dare to contradict ME, the all knowing theologian, philosopher – god. How much God is there in that seemingly theological dispute?

We talk about facts, knowing, truths, heresies and all those things that are important for our lives as Christians – but how much are they important? How much do they really make us Christian? How much does God care about them in our lives?

On one side one can quite easily - quoting massive amount of Holy Scripture and also sayings of the fathers prove that it is very important - and that the end of the matter.

On the other side, side that I have been playing with lately – I am starting to think that, maybe, really, we know nothing about anything about God and what we are given we are given for a reason – for it suits us and God has deemed that “it is good for us for we are that type of people that might like the glory of Orthodoxy”. Consequently, these things are very important, but not in the way that I previously held – well, not quite in that particular way.

How does it play out? Some others might like something other. And that God - being the Judge, might not judge according to how much Orthodox and heterodox did according to Orthodoxy – but rather judge according to how much we, all of us, did according to our own given light, whatever that might be.

So, if one is Orthodox – Orthodoxy is priceless, but so is Seventh Day Adventism – if one is SDA. For, that is the light given to that particular one.



Please, play with this thought, I wish to know what you think?

ICXC
NIKA

 

[Photios]

I have always sought to be able to disagree without being disagreeable, to generate light and not heat in discussions. Oh, sure, it's possible for me to get upset, but not as likely as it once was, particularly if I avoid the craziness of GT. My friends are mostly agnostic, with a couple of atheists, one ostensible Buddhist, and some non-observant Protestants thrown in. We disagree quite often, but, if we love a person as we should, the disagreements won't get in the way. True, it's easier with friends, but that can be counted as practice, first for strangers and eventually for enemies.

 

[rusmeister]

You seem to be talking about a couple of different things here.

One is whether an opinion can be absolutely right, so that many are wrong.

The other is whether we can love others over the internet, which is connected with how often we are led into error and sin through pride, and a lack of love.

As to the first, that's not really very difficult. It's really more of a question as to how much of the Truth a given faith contains, rather than casting it in colors of just plain right or wrong. I think of it as the Dartboard of Truth. Orthodoxy is the bullseye. RCC and stubbornly and deeply conservative Anglicans are in the next rings out, Protestants are further out, sects are even further out, and atheists aren't even on the board. But probably a more important response to this part of your post here is that the one thing we mustn't doubt is our reason itself. To doubt your reason is to suggest that nothing IS, and before you know it, you're an existentialist, lost in space, and even doubting your own existence. I think Screwtape would say something witty about that kind of thinking. Ergo, somebody has a firmer grasp on their reason and a better understanding of the nature of things than another. Anyway, if you haven't already, read Chesterton's "Heretics"; at least the first couple of chapters - after which you won't want to stop anyway.

As to the second, I think I'm really with you, in the sense that I am literally not with you. The command on us is to love our neighbor ('blizhny' - "near ones" in Russian), and it is hard to guage how much we can truly love others over the internet and not sin against them, especially in pride. I guess this is a reason why I stick to TAW, and never go to GH - I don't feel strong enough to not sin in anger or pride against my brothers, even if my reason convinces me that they are in error in one way or another - unless someone is seeking, you're generally not going to convert anyone - as you said, it's really God that does the work and at the very best we are mere instruments - and often we are not at that 'very best'.

OK, end of 'slovesny ponos' (verbal diarrhea).

 

[Rowan]

When I find myself a little annoyed in the Theology forums, I just leave, turn on Comedy Central, watch Bleach, or do something I'm actually supposed to be doing. I used to get so worked up by some opinions given by heterodox Christians, but for me it's a waste of time and energy. Most of all, I remember that if one hates his brother and says he loves God, the truth is not in him. I rather step back and get out of God's way than move them to sin by provoking them.

You know the ol' saying "If you can't say anything nice..."

Besides, I know many heterodox Christians who love Christ and live Christ so much more than me, my family included. I see some people, Christian or Non, on their way.

One of my personal devotionals is to pray to St. Justin Martyr that all will do the best with the light they have been given with his intercession for us all. That's the best I can do, in any case.

In the grander scheme of things...I wonder how important my internet chit-chat really is (even though it's still a nice hobby).

 

[Knowledge3]

I'm not sure what you mean from the OP, but I believe in making progress. I've learned a great deal about the Christian faith, and I hold the opinions of the Church fathers in high regard. I can trace my sources back to the Apostles and to Christ.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

How does it play out? Some others might like something other. And that God - being the Judge, might not judge according to how much Orthodox and heterodox did according to Orthodoxy – but rather judge according to how much we, all of us, did according to our own given light, whatever that might be.

So, if one is Orthodox – Orthodoxy is priceless, but so is Seventh Day Adventism – if one is SDA. For, that is the light given to that particular one.

How people play and communicate in GT will vary from person to person but much of what you say will ring true for many. I have found, though, that some of my greatest online irritants can become good online friends even if we never come to agreement.

However, where I think you take a brave leap is in the text quoted above. What my priest told me about my husband (the protestant) is that he is where God has him now. In essense, he has as much of the Light as he can handle. I think this line of thought is in sync with what you suggest. It also helps answer that nagging question...but what about all those nations / peoples who never heard of Orthodoxy...or never even heard of Christianity. Clearly...such thinking is merely "opinion" but I tend to agree with you.

I also think it is important to present our beliefs in GT (or wherever) not argumentatively but as instruction...because we never know when God enables the other to see more Light. Like He did with you and me!

 

[Michael G]

 

[rusmeister]

That's OK, Michael. Maybe you have as much of the light as you can handle!