Devolved

[Valleys>Peaks]

If anything, we have devolved. Maybe the only time we devolved was when Adam and Eve ate the fruit. Maybe we devolved more when the fallen angels had offspring with us. Maybe they why we do not live as long anymore?

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

What did that devolving look like, quantified biologically?

 

[J_B_]

What did that devolving look like, quantified biologically?

From a scientific perspective, it probably wouldn't look any different than evolution - a change in allele frequency. However, from a theological perspective there may be a case that it is occurring. Such a view would be a value judgement, and could attempt to claim decreases in things like intelligence, vitality, morality, social continuity, etc. or increases in violence, religious hostility, narcissism, etc.

 

[BeyondET]

What did that devolving look like, quantified biologically?

myopia has increased substantially in the U.S. up by 40% since 1971. Human eyes are becoming elongated. Probably the increase in computer and cell phone use.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

myopia has increased substantially in the U.S. up by 40% since 1971. Human eyes are becoming elongated. Probably the increase in computer and cell phone use.

How is that devolution, as opposed to evolution?

 

[BeyondET]

How is that devolution, as opposed to evolution?

Becoming only nearsighted is a worse state, a degeneration

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Becoming only nearsighted is a worse state, a degeneration

That’s a value judgment, which is philosophical, not scientific. And it’s totally okay if devolution is not a scientific idea but a philosophical one.

 

[BeyondET]

That’s a value judgment, which is philosophical, not scientific. And it’s totally okay if devolution is not a scientific idea but a philosophical one.

Nearsightedness is on the rise and that's not philosophy but of scientific fact.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Nearsightedness is on the rise and that's not philosophy but of scientific fact.

"Worse" is not a scientific fact, and that's what I was talking about.

 

[BeyondET]

"Worse" is not a scientific fact, and that's what I was talking about.

A decline in farsightedness is, so whats your point?.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I am willing to grant that a decline in far-sightedness is a scientific fact. What I am unwilling to grant (and therefore asking you to demonstrate) is that this decline is not evolution. I doubt you can make that case scientifically, but if you think you can then please do.

But if this decline being a “worse state” is a philosophical or religious conclusion, that is fine too. (I am a Christian and obviously not opposed to religious conclusions.)

 

[sfs]

What I am unwilling to grant (and therefore asking you to demonstrate) is that this decline is not evolution.

I think you have an extra negation in there.

I doubt you can make that case scientifically, but if you think you can then please do.

Yeah, most of the change cannot be the result of changed genetics, so it's not evolution of any kind.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I think you have an extra negation in there.

He said this decline in far-sightedness is devolution, not evolution. So, I am asking him to demonstrate that it is “not evolution.” We impose ideas of change being “up” or “down” but those ideas are not scientific but rather philosophical or religious. There is no telos in science; change is change.

 

[sfs]

He said this decline in far-sightedness is devolution, not evolution.

Ah, I see.

So, I am asking him to demonstrate that it is “not evolution.” We impose ideas of change being “up” or “down” but those ideas are not scientific but rather philosophical or religious. There is no telos in science; change is change.

Exactly. (Except this wasn't evolution in any direction, of course.)

 

[FireDragon76]

Nearsightedness is on the rise and that's not philosophy but of scientific fact.

Not "devolution". People live indoors, and do more near-work.