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Deuteronomy 18 and prophecies about Jesus

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Nihilist Virus, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    I gave you Scripture and you don't believe what it said, you will not be able to understand until your Born Again.

    If you really are interested in knowing and understanding the truth, then place your faith in Jesus for your Salvation, at that point, your eyes will be opened.

    As far as Apologetics is concerned, God does not need to defend Himself, those who are concerned with Apologetics are Theologians, they are the ones who need to defend their assumptions, suppositions.

    Finally, the truth of the matter is, if I answered all of the points, explaining where what you have posted is mistaken, you would not accept what you have been shown.
     
  2. Nihilist Virus

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    Nothing you've said is helpful or relevant to the thread, particularly at the end where you make the accusation that I would refuse to accept a sensible answer. Please stop polluting the thread.
     
  3. Quid est Veritas?

    Quid est Veritas? In Memoriam to CS Lewis

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    A number of flaws here, from what I can see.

    Prophecy need not be fulfilled superficially as such, or at least not in that manner. Think of Nineveh repenting and thus not undergoing the prophesied destruction. A similar thing is at play in other OT prophecy, considered legitimate by both Jews and Christians. Has the throne of David endured forever, for instance? These are interpreted differently by Jews themselves. Yet these prophecies are relevant in other ways, such as Messianism.

    I also don't understand your weird 500 year grace period for fulfillment. Based on what? Most ancient people have little sense of 'deep time', with everything before their grandfathers subsumed in an amorphous 'before', like Aboriginal dreamtime or the four epochs of the Iranians. So prophecy is either imminent (like Sodom) or within a lifetime (the Exile for 70 years), and if such thing is not stated, it might be however long it takes. A good example is Abraham's progeny being 'more numerous than the stars', or the Golden Age prophesies of Isaiah. To think otherwise is to import anachronistic Western time conceptions, hence OT systems of 'generational timekeeping' of Sem begetting Heber, etc.

    There is also Second Temple practice of Midrashic reading to contend with. Or the Jewish practices of Derush or Exposition. These strongly interpret events allegorically, also prophetically, in a very similar manner. The whole reason Christianity could interpret this way, was because it was already Jewish practice. This has not been repudiated as practice, as renowned Rabbis like Akiba did so for passages like Deuteronomy 21:13. The Jews differ on the interpretation, not that such a methodology is incorrect.

    By these passages you quoted though, Jesus is affirmed at the very least as a prophet by His foreseeing the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD; and His telling people their loved ones were healed. I don't expect you to put much stock therein, as these are of course contingent on accepting the idea that prophecy might be possible.

    So basically, I agree no unambigious prophecy of Jesus exists. But no prophecy, especially anagogic or typologic readings, ever is. Jesus is foretold and foreshadowed, not explicitly stated. It is however, not taking the Bible 'out of context', but utilising a known way of interpretation. To just assume only a specific literal reading, without seeing broad themes or connecting disparate passages by type, is a modern fallacy. We don't do this for modern literature, why do we insist on it here? This is not how Jews read the Bible, nor ancients read texts anyway. Look how Cicero interpreted the Iliad or Capella the Aeniad. The interpretation of the Sybilline books is very similar to boot. This is literally forcing an external system based on a single interpretation, that no one has ever held, and then complaining that other interpretations don't conform to this artificial one. You even find such reading in the OT itself, such as Hosea interpreting Jacob's struggle with the Angel, or Daniel interpreting Jeremiah. Most are ambigious too, such as the Testament of Jacob, or the skipping over of the Eldest children for their younger siblings, etc.

    This is simply more silliness, where the actual context of the texts aren't taken into account, while people are paradoxically claiming that that is exactly what they are doing. Christianity arose as a Jewish sect, with highly educated Jewish members too, like Paul, so to believe it somehow falls foul of Jewish systems of exegesis is simply untenable and farcical. To deny such interpretation in toto, is another argument entirely though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
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  4. συνείδησις

    συνείδησις ¿uo buıob sı ʇɐɥʍ

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    I've already shown that it can be about Jesus. You seem to want, not evidence, but proof. No prophecy can prove anything. That's like demanding proof that Jesus exists. It's impossible to prove a spiritual reality using non-spiritual means (e.g., philospophy, science). There is evidence, but if you can't hear it, too bad. A blind man doesn't know what color looks like.

    Yes, it could be about Joshua, as you mentioned earlier, but from a biblical and spiritual perspective that is not realistic. For one, Joshua already existed, had been raised up (he was about 80 years old) and was well-known to Israel. So IMO it's pretty dumb to even suggest that's who GOD was referring to.
     
  5. Nihilist Virus

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    No, you absolutely didn't.

    Proof is only a concept in logic and mathematics. Evidence is the correct term here. However, if you read the OP, I said,

    Therefore, a clear, unambiguous prophecy that is 100% about Jesus and 0% about anything else simply does not exist. No such prophecy was ever intended.

    Reading between the lines, it should be clear that I want a prophecy that is 100% about Jesus and 0% about anything else. The portion of Deuteronomy you cited does not qualify for the mentions previously discussed.

    Then why are you even on this thread arguing with me?

    Abe Lincoln existed; it's pretty historically certain. Jesus, even if he was God, was still also a man, and so there should be historical evidence to verify or falsify that. There's no spiritual aspect that is necessary.

    Unless... you don't believe Jesus was ever really a man, or was ever really on earth. Do you believe that he lived, died, and resurrected in the spiritual plane?

    Joshua already existed... what is your point? Are your expectations that Moses' successor is not supposed to be born until after Moses dies? Wouldn't that leave a large gap? Of course Joshua was already alive. But he wasn't performing miracles or speaking to God, so he wasn't yet a prophet; after he succeeded Moses, he did start doing those things. So no, it's not a dumb idea.
     
  6. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Your conclusion is not correct, it is based upon a false premise.

    The purpose of a Prophecy is to impart to the hearers, some bit of knowledge which they at present do not possess.

    When the Prophecy does come to pass as it was spoken by the supposed Prophet, then and only then is he deemed to be a Prophet, but it is not true that the purpose of a Prophecy is to show he is a Prophet.
     
  7. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    #2
    So what's your point, Christians don't deny what is said about false Prophets.
     
  8. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    From your extensive study of the Bible, you have determined, there is no concept of a far-future Prophecy.

    Does the concept of far-future Prophecy need to be covered for you to believe and be satisfied?

    Couldn't it just be, you personally do not accept any of the Prophecy's given as valid Prophecy's?

    How is it you have arrived at this arbitrary 500 year period, what is your figure based upon?I say arbitrary because, if I was say 40 when a Prophecy was given, and I aged to 65 knowing I would die very soon and the Prophecy hadn't come to pass, I'm not sure I would consider that person as a true Prophet, does that mean that he is in fact a false Prophet, because his Prophecy didn't come to pass within my lifetime?....No not at all.

    Did God say somewhere, "I'm giving this Prophecy of mine 500 years, and if it doesn't come to pass, then I LIED."
    It really wouldn't matter anyway at that point, because the Prophet which gave the Prophecy would already be dead.

    Are you basing everything you know about Prophecy and Prophets on your understanding of Deut. 18:15-22?
     
  9. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    If there was a point you were attempting to make, I believe you might possibly have made it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  10. JIMINZ

    JIMINZ Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how far off from the truth they actually might be.

    But like I said before, your not in a Spiritual position to judge Spiritual matters or understandings.

    1Co. 2:14
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  11. Nihilist Virus

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    Do you have an example of this?

    If a prophet said something that didn't come true for 500 years, it's highly likely he would be considered a false prophet. So considering the cost of making, copying, and maintaining books in the ancient world, there's no way that the book of a prophet would survive, let alone make it into Jewish canon, unless the prophecies were already believed to have been fulfilled.

    Therefore, there absolutely is no prophecy that is uniquely and unambiguously about Jesus Christ.

    If you're supposed to kill false prophets, then it is implied that their predictions should come true within their lifetime. Otherwise, false prophets could always avoid condemnation by saying, "Just keep waiting."

    My mention of 500 years is referring to the gap between the last OT writing and the first NT writing.

    I'm laying a case that if a book had a prophecy in it that hadn't been fulfilled during the 500 years of silence, then the book simply would not have survived as no one would have bothered keeping it, copying it, and maintaining it.

    Ok.

    And the Koran says we should both have our heads cut off. Religious texts are not always correct.
     
  12. John 1720

    John 1720 Harvest Worker Supporter

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    Hi Sir,

    I disagree with your opening premise and your rigid exegesis of that passage of Deuteronomy 18 and assert that all the ancient Hebrews and early Christians, as well as legitimate Biblical scholars would disagree with it as well. Yes, the Lord hates false prophets and establishes a way for us to discern true prophets from false ones.
    • Jeremiah 23:32 “Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the LORD, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the LORD.
    So while on that basic point we agree you are clearly limiting the means of God spoken to us in prophesy, which was obviously never intended. God is speaking about a future prophet – the Jewish Messiah a.k.a. the Gentile Christ which was to come. He had already spoken about Him long before in Genesis; a prophesy fulfilled in Christ on the cross.
    • Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.”
    So we know God was intentional to give us a far distant prophesy about the future, essentially from the fall to the redemption of mankind. It is an all encompassing prophesy.” Another example can be illustrated in Joel. Four locust infestations had left them a starving nation but this was more than a one time event without prophetic significance. It symbolized what would happen to them by the invading locusts in four hoards, which the Hebrews called
    1. Assyria and Babylon;
    2. Medo-Persia;
    3. Greco-Macedonia and Antiochus Epiphanes;
    4. the Romans.​


    Joel 2:28 also prophesies that the gift of prophesy will be magnanimously distributed, similar to the loaves and fishes, to those born of the Spirit. Obviously Joel was not speaking in the immediate sense and reasonable believers would not be so literal as to believe God can only foretell an immediate event, when He has specifically stated He know the beginning from the end – all of time; since the express purpose of time is to fulfill the will of God and make the copy of His creation to perfectly reflect heaven eternal – ‘Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven – something we know will happen but has not occurred in time yet. We should never try to box God in by His Words.
    • “And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.
    • The purpose of Prophesy I to edify the Church - “.. the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” – Revelation 19:10b
    • 1Corinthians 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.

    So prophesy is edification as well as predicting and it can have multiple fulfilments as well as God’s Will marches through time.

    While I agree there is 400 years between the recorded canonical inter-testament period that is NOT the same as saying there was no prophesy within that timeframe or that God was silent. We have the whole Maccabean period which attests to the fact that God was with His people during the cruel reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanies. Daniel's prophecy had warned of Antiochus several centuries before: "And they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation" (Daniel 11:31.

    Maccabees gives us details:
    • "Antiochus now issued a decree that all nations in his empire should abandon their own customs and become one people. All the Gentiles and even many of the Israelites submitted to this decree. They adopted the official pagan religion, offered sacrifices to idols, and no longer observed the Sabbath. "Mothers who had allowed their babies to be circumcised were put to death in accordance with the king's decree. Their babies were hung around their necks, and their families and those who had circumcised them were put to death" Still many still resisted. In fact, 1 Maccabees 1:62-63 reports: "But many in Israel stood firm…They chose to die rather than to be defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die.
    We also open the New Testament with Zacharias’ prophesy about his son John the Baptist. We also have Anna born before the Roman occupation and a prophetess in Luke 2.
    • 36 Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; 37 and this woman was a widow of about eighty-four years, who did not depart from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. 38 And coming in that instant she gave thanks to the Lord, and spoke of Him to all those who looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
    A rehash of your points for swifter reading:
    1. It seems that a common misunderstanding about prophecy is that it is a display of God's power, and nothing more. That God makes a prediction, it comes true, and then... nothing happens because we're done here. This is not the case.
    2. The purpose of a prophecy is to show that the prophet actually does speak for God. If a prophet makes a prediction that comes true, then, as Deuteronomy 18 says, that prophet speaks for God. That prophet then goes on to do his actual work, which is relaying God's will to the people.
    3. As for the main point of the thread, first notice that if a prophet's prediction does not come to pass, then he is a false prophet (verses 21-22). Notice also that false prophets shall be executed (verse 20).
    4. No concept of a far-future prophecy is covered. If a prophet made a prediction that didn't come true within 500 years, he would have been considered a false prophet. Plain and simple.
    In Conclusion to these points.
    1. I’m not sure there really is any common misunderstanding about prophecy as you claim; or that your claim most see it as only a display of God’s power. The function of prophesy is certainly edifying and for the building up of the knowledge of God within the Church, as well as in its predictive power for foretelling events. Paul teaches us that prophesy is directed to believers, although it clearly helps those seeking the Lord as well.
    2. I don’t believe prophecy is merely meant to show the prophet speaks for God. That is putting the cart before the horse. God’s Word and Prophesy is meant to edify the Church by keeping it on course, which is inline with Scripture. True prophesy gives glory first to God for revelation. What you are confusing is discernment and function.
    3. Agreed
    4. That is simply Not true and the claim really is a hyper extension to the context to what is being said. Sure if the prophet stated Jesus is coming back tomorrow at 3 PM and only those who meet him on the hillside by the church will be saved and it doesn’t come to pass then he clearly is a false prophet. If the prophesy is in the immediate sense that will impact its hearers then to them the revelation has been given. Such is the case as the prophesy of Paul’s arrest in Jerusalem prior to its occurrence. ( Acts 21:10-14 ) It is then that discernment evaluation can be done because all the facts are in. If it is outside the perimeter of their contemporary time, however, that does not mean God, who is the arbiter of time, can't paint the picture to bring hope or warning to His flock. For God's picture of unfolding time through the generations a prophet must be discerned by his or her track record; thus Isaiah made both near and far prophesies regarding Israel and Christ. His contemporary prophies became true thus His post contemporary prophesies are also true - as affirmed by Jesus Himself:
    • Mark 7:6-7,9 "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
    • He said to them, "
    • All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.

    In Christ, Patrick
     
  13. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

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    Genesis 3:15 is off topic. God is not a prophet. The test for false prophets doesn't apply to God.

    You reorganized my OP into four points. You agreed with the third point, which is,

    "As for the main point of the thread, first notice that if a prophet's prediction does not come to pass, then he is a false prophet (verses 21-22). Notice also that false prophets shall be executed (verse 20)."

    Suppose a prophet of the OT said something that was uniquely about Jesus. Then I assume we are in agreement that it wouldn't come true for hundreds of years. Please explain to me how a person of the time could have distinguished between a false prophet and one whose predictions did not come true within hundreds of years.
     
  14. John 1720

    John 1720 Harvest Worker Supporter

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    Hi Sir,
    I don't think you really understand prophesy. When God speaks He rarely speaks audibly, although that has been recorded multiple times. Instead He chooses to speak from men and women. Isaiah, many times quotes God directly and yet I am not aware of any Bible scholars that would advocate to remove Isaiah from the list of prophets. Moses was also a prophet, which you also quoted in Deuteronomy. Most Biblical scholars also agree Moses wrote Genesis so I do not follow why Moses quote from God should be disqualified in your mind?????

    Hi Sir,
    I explained this at length. There were many prophesies of major and minor prophets which came to fruition within their contemporary lifetimes. But their were also prophecies they made that only came true centuries later - as in Daniel for example. So no, I certainly think their office as prophet was established - and again God is not hamstrung to only tell us what will happen in our contemporary time but oversees all time and the completion of Hi Will. If He wants His children to know about it then it is for good reason
    In Christ, Patrick.
     
  15. Nihilist Virus

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    God is not a prophet. So even if he makes a prophecy, the test for false prophets does not apply to him. As false prophets are the focus of the thread, statements made directly from God are off topic.

    It sounds like you're saying that once a prophet is established as being legitimate, they're no longer held accountable for their predictions.
     
  16. Yi-man

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    Correct, συνείδησις did not show it was Jesus, pbuh and cannot as the NT says clearly, he was not 'That' Prophet.

    It wasn't Joshua either and that is according to the Scholars of Judaism, going to the end of Deuteronomy to verse 34:10 which says,

    "10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,"
     
  17. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The prophecy is not about the Jews becoming Christian, actually there were already plans for a Jewish state in the Middle East that predated the Holocaust or even World War l, the Holocaust merely gave more momentum to it. What does this have to do with European colonialism? You also forget how Jews persecuted the early Christians. Both of them were Jews. Both Moses and Jesus were born in danger and they both had to flee in Birth, Mary fled with Jesus to Egypt and Moses on a river as both of their lives were threatened from birth. Both preformed miracles and both came with a new covenant for their people the children of Israel.

    • Great lawgiver for his nation. Jesus taught on his own authority the laws of God and raised observance of those laws to a new and higher level (Matthew chapters 5, 6 & 7); He taught as an authority and the people were amazed (Matthew 7:28-29); He selected and taught the two greatest laws (Matthew 22:35-40); He gave a new commandment (John 13:34-35); and at the very end of His teaching and leadership on earth, He delivered orders to His followers regarding "all that I have commanded you." (Matt. 28:19-20)

    • One of the two men who were commissioned by God to make laws for the Israelite nation. The approval of Heaven on both was shown by great signs and miracles. At the time of Moses there was the Exodus from the hand of ancient Pharaoh, feeding with manna and quails and with water from the rocks. At the time of Jesus there was healing crippled, blind, deaf, speechless and epileptics. He even threw demons out of people. Many dead people were raised back to life and health (also see Matt. 27:52-52); feeding of 5000 and of 4000 men, plus women and children.

    • Had his face glow with light, but it faded away (Exodus 34:29-35 and 2 Corinthians 3:12-13). The face of Jesus shined like the sun (Matthew 17:1-5) and is still shining like the sun while in heaven (Revelation 1:9-19).

    • Deliverer of his brethren who would follow him out of physical slavery, then he gave them the law. Jesus came and gave law and commandments to His followers. Then He delivered them and other followers around the world out of the spiritual slavery of sin and Satan.

    • Was born into a situation when his brethren were being oppressed by Pharaoh. Jesus was born into the time when the pagan idolatrous Roman empire was oppressing His brethren.

    • Was born in a country where a man, Pharaoh, was worshiped as God. When Jesus was born the ruling Romans worshiped Caesar as God.

    • Grew up in a country where the king, Pharaoh, was afraid that the slaves would revolt. Jesus grew up where King Herod, "the Great," was afraid the descendants of those very same slaves would revolt.

    • Was nursed a short time at his birthplace, then was moved for his safety. The infant Moses was placed in a floating basket in the Nile (Exodus 2 and Acts 7:20). Jesus was nursed a short time in Bethlehem and then was taken to Egypt for safety (Matt. 2).

    • Was nursed by his own mother while the official government policy was to try kill him. King Herod tried to kill the infant Jesus (Matt. 2).

    • Father was a mystery to the general public. The Father of Jesus and the facts of His virgin birth were a mystery to the general public (Luke 1).

    • Was adopted into the royal family of Pharaoh. Jesus was adopted by His step-father, Joseph, into the royal family line of King David and Solomon (Matt. 1).

    • Rejected being kingly in life-style (Hebrews 11:23-29). Jesus did not have the life-style of royalty (Matt. 4:8-11; John 6:15 & 18:36).

    • Lived in Egypt. Jesus lived in Egypt as an infant (Matt. 2:13-21).

    • Came out of Egypt to serve God and be a lawgiver and leader. Jesus came out of Egypt to be a lawgiver and leader.

    • 40 years was tested in the wilderness. Jesus was tested 40 days in the wilderness and had approximately 40 months of public teaching and miracle working.

    • 40 Days Fasting (Exodus 34:28). Jesus fasted 40 days (Matt. 4).

    • A shepherd of sheep. Jesus is the Great Good Shepherd of His followers (John 10:11-16).

    • The white hand of leprosy (Exodus 4:6-7). Jesus healed many different people of leprosy (Luke 17:11-19).

    • Asked that the great sin of his people be forgiven (Exodus 32:31-32). Jesus asked that the great sin of His people be forgiven (Luke 23:34).

    • Had the cloud of God and the voice of God as a witness of his authority (Numbers 11:24-25). Jesus had the cloud of God and the voice of God as a witness of His authority (Matthew 17:24-25).

    • Exercised power from God over forces of nature such as wind and water. At the Red (Reed) Sea, he walked through on dry ground (Exodus 14). Jesus walked on water and instantly calmed a storm (Matt. 14).

    • Fire was important. At Mt. Horeb/Mt. Sinai there was fire (Ex. 3:1-6; 19:18 and 24:12-18) and there was the pillar of fire (Ex. 13:21-22). Jesus baptized the people with the Holy Spirit and with fire (Matt. 3:11-17 and Acts 2:1-4) and at the Transfiguration His face shined like the fire of the sun (John 17:1-3). Also see 2 Thessalonians 1:6-7; 1 Corinthians 3:11-14; Hebrews 12:29; and 2 Peter 3:1-14.

    • Was faithful as a servant in all his house (Hebrews 3:5). Jesus was faithful as a Son over His house (Hebrews 3:6).

    • Brought water from a rock by a miracle of God (Exodus 17). Jesus Himself was the Living Water which was brought out of the tomb-rock which could not hold Him (John 7:37-38).

    • Asked that his nation be saved or else that his own name be blotted out of the Lord's book (Exodus 32:31-32). Jesus was willing to die, and did die, and was resurrected and thereby shown to be the perfect and acceptable ransom for sin.

    • A mountain was prominent in his work where the law was given for a nation. A mountain was prominent in the work of Jesus. He gave the famous Sermon on the Mountain with the law for people of all nations (Matthew 5, 6, & 7).

    • His followers were angry when other people showed performing signs (Numbers 11:26-29). Followers of Jesus did the same (Mark 9:38-40).

    • An angel watched over his body (Jude 9). Jesus had at least two angels watching over His body (John 20).

    • Had revealed to him the special sacred memorial or covenant Name of God (often called "Jehovah" in English) (Exodus 3:13-15). That special name was bestowed to Jesus (Philippians 2:5-11).

    • Was mighty in words and deeds (Acts 7:22). Jesus was more powerful in words and deeds (Matt. 7:28-29; and 8:3-13).

    • Sent 12 men to look over the land secretly (Numbers 12). Jesus sent out his 12 disciples to look over the same land and to publicly preach repentance and to cast out unclean spirits (Mark 6:6-13).

    • Did not have special clothing symbolic of his rank. Jesus also did not have special clothing showing His rank.

    • Did not have biological sons to carry on his spiritual functions. Neither did Jesus.

    • Was very gracious to foreign women at wells and gave them water (Exodus 2:15-17). Jesus was gracious to the Samaritian woman at Jacob's well and gave her the Water of Life (John 4). He was also gracious to: Mary Magdalene out of whom He threw 7 demons (Mark 16:9); Marium and Martha the sisters of Lazarus (Luke 10:38-41 and John 11); the woman arrested during adultery and he commanded her to stop sinning (John 8); the widow at Nain and He brought her son back to life (Luke 7:11-17); and He allowed the women to be the first to know that He had been raised from the dead (Matt. 28 and Mark 16).

    • True identity was not known at first to the women at the well (Exodus 2). The true identity of Jesus was not known at first to the woman at the well (John 4).

    • Lived modestly, only once being given an offering (Leviticus 8:29). Jesus lived a very modest life, sometimes not even owning a place to sleep (Luke 9:58).

    • Was involved in the activities of the holy Tabernacle on earth (Exodus 25-40). Jesus is involved in the perfect Tabernacle in Heaven made by God (Hebrews 8).

    • Was humble (Numbers 12:3). Jesus was gentle and humble (Matt. 11:28-30).

    • Gave blessings from God to be given via Aaron to the people (Numbers 6:22-27). Jesus gave blessing from God to the people (Matt. 5:1-12) and told His followers to bless others (Luke 6:27-28).

    • Got complaints from the people who had been trained to write (Exodus 5:13-23). Jesus got complaints from the scribes (writers of the law) (Matt. 9:2-8; 16:21; and 21:12-16).

    • Opponent, Pharaoh, had his heart hardened (Ex. 7:3). Jesus' opponents had their hearts hardened because He healed on the Sabbath (Luke 6:7-11).

    • Law caused severe punishment, even death. Even greater punishment is against those who go back against Jesus (Hebrews 10:28-31).

    • Spoke to the 70 elders of Israel (Exodus 24:1 and Numbers 11). Jesus spoke to the 70 elders (called the Sanhedrin) (Luke 22:70-71).

    • Had sacrifices for the Covenant sealed with blood (Exodus 24:1-8). Jesus also sealed His new Covenant with blood (Hebrews 9:18-28).

    • Provided ransom by pouring out blood as a sacrifice (Ex. 12). Jesus similarly (Matt. 20:28 & Hebrews 9:11-15).

    • Closed the way to the Ark of the Covenant (Testimony) with a thick curtain (Ex. 26:33). Jesus, at His death, had the thick curtain in the temple torn open from top to bottom, opening the way (Matt 27 and Mark 15).

    • Was almost stoned by his brethren (Ex. 17:4). And Jesus also (John 8:58-59).

    • Had a peculiar bed as an infant (Ex. 2:3). Jesus also had a peculiar bed (Luke 2:7).

    • Was raised by the daughter of the king (Ex. 2). Jesus' mother was a daughter of the House of King David by his son, Nathan (Luke 3).

    • Was raised in the house of a man who was not his father, but he was adopted into the family (Ex. 2). Jesus was raised in the house of Joseph who was not His biological father, but He was adopted into the family (Matt. 1:18 & 25 and Acts 7:20-21).

    • Fought against the masters of evil (Ex. 5-12). Jesus battled Satan (Matt. 4:1-10).

    • Left a high position in the most powerful nation on earth to suffer for his people (Exodus 2-12 and Hebrews 11:23-27). Jesus left the highest position in Heaven to suffer for His people and to make ransom available to all people (Philippians 2:5-8).

    • Spoke the words of God (Deuteronomy 18:18 and others). Jesus spoke the words of God, the Father (John 12:50 & 14:10).

    • Spoke by God's authority (Deut. 18:19). Jesus spoke by God's authority (John 8:42 & 17:4-6).

    • Fed multitudes of people by miracles (Ex. 16). Jesus fed multitudes (Matt. 14 and 15).

    • Opened an era of law (Ex. 19 & 20). Jesus opened an era of grace and truth (John 1:17).

    • Established a memorial custom (Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover) based on common food elements (Ex. 12). Jesus established the memorial of Himself by a custom utilizing two common food elements of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and Passover (Luke 22:19-20).

    • Finished the work which God commanded him (Ex. 40:33). Jesus completed His work (John 17:4 and & 19:30).

    • Does not have a known tomb where the body is located (Deut. 34). Jesus' tomb is empty because after death, he was raised up alive and ascended into Heaven (Mark 16:19 and Luke 24:50-53).

    • Reappeared unto men after death (Matt. 17:3). Jesus reappeared to people, even to 500 at once, after His death and resurrection (Matt. 28; Mark 16; Luke 24; John 20 & 21; and Acts 1:1-3).

    • Was rejected by his family (Numbers 12). Jesus' own half-brothers rejected Him at first (Matt. 13:55 & John 7:5). But, later at least two were believers and wrote the two New Testament books of James and Jude.
     
  18. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

    +921
    Atheist
    Private
    Not relevant.
     
  19. Al Masihi

    Al Masihi Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,749
    Saudi Arabia
    Melkite Catholic
    Private
    It only fits Jesus perfectly, unless you can find me more reasons for someone else other then Jesus Christ.
     
  20. Nihilist Virus

    Nihilist Virus Infectious idea

    +921
    Atheist
    Private
    You listed similarities. I gave a reasonable explanation. There's a difference.
     
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