Destruction is Decreed

keras

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Whatever. I mean: whatever God promised has been fulfilled in the resurrection. That's why Eph 2-3 and Gal 3-4 read as they do: they dwell on the forgiveness of sins and justification from them.

There Jer 33 passage is more intriguing than you realize. It is a prediction of the DofJ and the ongoing "Israel". Do you really think there would be much excitement about living in an actually desolated land? Hmmm. Must not be what he meant!

That is just your biased opinion about God's promises. The resurrection in no way fulfils what God specifically told the Patriarchs what He would do.

I do realise Jer 33:6-14 is extremely significant. It does predict the Lord's Day of wrath, by fire as we know from the many prophesies about it. The entire Middle East will be devastated, but you show your failure to read properly what is written about the incredible regeneration that soon follows.
 
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keras

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There are Two ‘Days of the Lord’ to come:
The Day of the Return of Jesus, Rev 19:11, Zech. 14:3, will come after many signs, mainly the Great Tribulation and armies gathering to attack Jerusalem. ‘As soon as that time of distress has passed….’ Matthew 24:29-30
But it is a mistake to think we will know when the Lord’s Day of wrath comes, the Sixth Seal - Rev 6:12-17, because it will be the Day that ‘comes as a thief’, the Day of sudden destruction, 1 Thess. 5:3, that ‘in an instant’ will depopulate and devastate all of the Holy Land. Zeph. 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18

What must be considered is Jesus’ Words: ‘As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes’.
When He comes first in His judgement of the nations, Hab. 3:12, He comes as the Son of Man.
1/ At the Return, He comes as the Word of God. Rev 19:13b

‘In the days of Noah, they ate, drank and married, then suddenly they were swept away!’ Matthew 24:37-38
2/ In no way will people be living normally during the Trumpet and Bowl disasters of the Great Tribulation.


Just these two reasons totally refute the idea that the Day of the Lord’s wrath also happens at the Return. There are many other scriptures, as well, that cannot be reconciled with that theory.
As we see from the current situation in the Middle East, it is inevitable there will be another attempt by the Islamists to ‘wipe Israel off the map’. When they do, it will be the trigger for the Lord to take action. It WILL be His Day of vengeance and wrath! Zech. 3:9b, Deut. 32:43
 
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Bible2

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keras said in post 22:

‘In the days of Noah, they ate, drank and married, then suddenly they were swept away!’ Matthew 24:37-38
2/ In no way will people be living normally during the Trumpet and Bowl disasters of the Great Tribulation.

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea most of them are going to be killed at Jesus' 2nd coming until it happens (Matthew 24:37-39). For they could think the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood, even though they could see or hear about Noah building his huge ark, no doubt rejected the idea that YHWH God had the power to actually cause a global flood which would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the future tribulation could reject the idea that YHWH has the power to actually defeat them.

For during the tribulation's 2nd half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and his fallen angels (Revelation 12:9), and the power Lucifer will give to the Antichrist to take over the entire earth (Revelation 13:4-8), and to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Revelation 13:5-6, Daniel 11:36), and to physically overcome and kill people in the church in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers which Lucifer will give to the Antichrist's False Prophet, by which he will be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Revelation 13:13, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

And near the end of the future tribulation, the world will see the Antichrist's defeat of YHWH's amazingly-powerful 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice and make merry and send gifts to each other because the 2 witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Revelation 11:10,6). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Revelation 16, the tribulation's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after almost all the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the amazing miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the world's armies to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Revelation 16:13-14, Revelation 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the tribulation with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected first battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle and what they expected to be a quick and easy victory.
 
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keras

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Bible 2, mostly I agree with your posts, but what you say in #23 is wrong.
I did not say that the Days of Noah are just before the Return, I said those days could NOT precede that Day, because the world will be in turmoil then.

We are NOW 'as in the days of Noah' and 'all is peaceful, all secure and then sudden destruction will come'. 2 Thess 5:3
Expect the Sixth Seal disaster as the next prophesied event!
 
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Bible2

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keras said in post 24:

We are NOW 'as in the days of Noah' and 'all is peaceful, all secure and then sudden destruction will come'. 2 Thess 5:3

1 Thessalonians 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, at the 2 witnesses' death at the legal end of the Antichrist's 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:8,15, Revelation 13:5-18), the unsaved world will rejoice and make merry because it will then be free from the tormenting plagues from the 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's judgment and wrath will then be poured out upon it (Revelation 16). And then Jesus will return and bring the 2nd-coming judgment and wrath of God (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3).

keras said in post 24:

Expect the Sixth Seal disaster as the next prophesied event!

Instead, first expect the last 3 of the 4 horsemen (Revelation 6:4-8), who represent a horrible future war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could undertake a massive buildup of the Iraqi Army, initially to prevent the Islamic State militant group (also known as ISIS, or ISIL) from taking over Iraq, and Syria, and all the rest of the Middle East, and eventually so that the Iraqi Army can serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall much of the former Iraqi Baathist military hierarchy (i.e. that which existed under Baathist Saddam Hussein), to run the present Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly.

And if the current, Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any return of a Baathist-dominated military (which cruelly suppressed the Iraqi Shiites under Saddam Hussein's rule), or balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For they could see a well-run, Baathist Iraqi Army and government as the only way to keep ISIS/ISIL under control, and the only way to eventually invade and defeat Iran, which invasion the Iraqi Baathists could agree to perform, for they see meddling, non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, "false flag" operations could be managed by the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could completely destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to clear the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many still secretly tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).
 
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keras

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Sorry Bible2, your speculations about what could happen, just don't cut it.
Bible prophecy does not say there will be a nuke war in the Middle East, but rather there will be a sudden and shocking disaster to the protagonist's presently in the area.
The Lord, who has 'long restrained Himself', Isaiah 4:14-15 will take action, as psalm 83 says. There are over 100 prophesies about this terrible, world changing event by fire from the sun. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4;1 &3, 2 Peter 3:7

And your belief of the horsemen is Rev 6:1-8 is refuted by how Zechariah 1:8-11 & 6:1-8 says they have 'ranged throughout the world' since ancient times. Just the statistics of deaths caused by war, disease and famines proves it. Also the Fifth Seal was opened on the day Stephen was stoned to death. Acts 7:59

Its time for all Christians to realise there is coming very soon, a time of testing, 1 Peter 4:12, where we must maintain our faith in our Lord, then He will 'pour out His blessings upon His righteous people'. Jeremiah 33:6-14
 
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keras

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Isaiah 30:1-14 The Lord says; woe to Israel, a race of rebels who refuse His Laws. They ask for preachers to ‘give us smooth words and illusions’.
Isaiah 30:15-18 These are the words of the Lord; In calm detachment lies your safety, your strength in quiet trust.
But you would have none of it, therefore you will be put to flight.
Yet the Lord is waiting to show you His favour and compassion, for He is a God of justice. Happy are all who wait for Him! [Luke 12:37]
Isaiah 30:19-24 People of Zion, weep no more. The Lord will answer you when you call for help. He gives you adversity and affliction now, but your teachers will no longer be hidden from you, you will see them with your own eyes. If you stray from the right path, you will hear a voice behind you saying- ‘this is the Way, follow it’. You will loath your images and will treat your idols [sorcery, false religions, materialism, etc] like filth. [Hosea 14:8 & Ezekiel 11:18]
The Lord will give rain and the Land will produce rich crops. Your livestock will prosper. [Isaiah 41:17-19 & Ezekiel 34:14-16]

Isaiah 30:25-28 On the Day of slaughter, when fortresses fall, streams of water will flow from every hill. The moon will shine like the sun and sunlight will be seven times brighter on the Day the Lord heals the wounds of His people. [Isa. 63:4]
See the Lord Himself comes from afar, with anger and wrath, in dense clouds of smoke. His breath is a rushing torrent, He shakes the nations in a sieve of destruction. [Ezekiel 30:2-5, Habakkuk 3:12, Rev. 6:12-17]

Isaiah 30:29-33 Then the Lord will make His voice heard in majesty and reveal His arm descending in fierce anger, with devouring flames, thunder and hail. [Heb 10:27]
For at His voice, Assyria’s strength fails, His punishing Rod strikes them down. A fire pit is prepared by Jerusalem, ready for the Lord to set it ablaze with His breath, like a stream of burning sulphur. Ezekiel 20:47-48
But for you there will be songs and gladness of heart as you march to music, on the way to the Mountain of the Lord. [Zech. 10:10-12, Psalm 68:7-12]
Ref, REB some verses abridged

Verse 10 is appropriate for our days, as false religions, prosperity theology, etc. are preached everywhere. Hosea 4:7-11
Verses 25-28 & 30-33 The Day of Trumpets, Joel 2:1-2, the Lords Day of vengeance, a fire judgement on His enemies, as we are told in verse 26, will be a massive explosion of the sun that will literally fulfil all the prophesies about that Day. 10 days later comes the Day of Atonement and His people are healed and redeemed. Isaiah 51:4-8, Hosea 2:14-23, Ezekiel 37 & 20:34-38
Verse 29 Then they gather into all of the Promised Land. Jeremiah 33:6-14, Psalm 107
Verses 19-24 are for the period after His people, all Israel, are resettled in the Land. They will have God given leaders and teachers to guide them until Jesus Returns.
 
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keras

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2 Esdras 8:50-62 In the last days, the inhabitants of the world will be punished for their arrogant lives, by prolonged suffering.
But you, direct your thoughts to yourselves and look to the glory awaiting you and those like you.
For all of you, paradise lies open- the tree of life is planted, the age to come is prepared and rich abundance is in store. The City is already built, rest from toil is assured. Goodness and wisdom are brought to perfection.
From you, the root of evil has been cut off. For you, disease is at an end and death abolished. All sorrows are at an end and the treasure of immortality is revealed.

Regarding the lost- when they had their freedom, they used it to despise the Most High, to treat His Laws with contempt and to go their own way. What is more, they trampled on the godly, saying: There is no God, knowing full well that they must die.

Yours then, will be the joys that I have prepared, theirs the thirst and torments. It is not that the Most High has wanted any person to be destroyed, but those people have brought dishonour onto their Creators name and shown ingratitude to the One who put life within their reach.
That is why My judgement is now close at hand, but I have not made this known to all – only to you and a few like you.
Reference; Revised English Bible Apocrypha, some verses condensed.
 
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