Destroying the Disastrous Doctrine of Cessationism

[twin1954]

So anyone who Jesus sends to preach the gospel is an Apostle?



JLB

You are misquoting what I said. I used the lowercase a in the case of preachers as opposed to the capitol A in the case of the twelve Apostles. And no anyone who preaches is not an apostle. There are far too many men, and women as well, that have run without being sent. Bible Colleges and Seminarys are full of them. They were never called and never sent. They have taken it upon themselves to be “preachers”.

Now either actually engage my argument or I am done with you. It serves no purpose to continue when all you do is hem and haw.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Satan is the great deciever and makes his ministers seem to be ministers of righteousness.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJV) 13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Are you sure the gifts you have or have witnessed are of the Spirit?
Was there not three hundred years between the last prophet and Christ? Did the gifts given to the prophets cease? According to Heb.1 they did.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (KJV) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

There is no biblical basis for your assertions just emotion and experience both of which deceive.

Am I sure the gifts were of the Spirit? Yes. 100%

Even after Jesus ascended into Heaven, Paul commands us to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially to prophesy (1 Corinthians 14:1) He also says they will not cease until the COMPLETE/PERFECT comes (1 Corinthians 13:10). If prophecy ceased, what is John's Book of Revelation? It is surely Prophecy! Now some falsely believe this coming of the Complete/Perfect IS John's book of Revelation. They believe the Gifts ceased when the book of Revelation was written. But this is false because even Revelation itself describes 2 prophetic witnesses that will come AFTER the writing of the Book itself (Revelation 11:3).

So it's very clear, the Gifts will cease when Jesus Christ returns ONLY, because ONLY then will we have Perfect Knowledge of God and His Kingdom, and the gifts will no longer be needed. They will FULFILLED at the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Until then, they are needed and they still exist. And I have experienced most of them in person.

 

[Dave L]

Am I sure the gifts were of the Spirit? Yes. 100%

Even after Jesus ascended into Heaven, Paul commands us to earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially to prophesy (1 Corinthians 14:1) He also says they will not cease until the COMPLETE/PERFECT comes (1 Corinthians 13:10). If prophecy ceased, what is John's Book of Revelation? It is surely Prophecy! Now some falsely believe this coming of the Complete/Perfect IS John's book of Revelation. They believe the Gifts ceased when the book of Revelation was written. But this is false because even Revelation itself describes 2 prophetic witnesses that will come AFTER the writing of the Book itself (Revelation 11:3).

So it's very clear, the Gifts will cease when Jesus Christ returns ONLY, because ONLY then will we have Perfect Knowledge of God and His Kingdom, and the gifts will no longer be needed. They will FULFILLED at the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Until then, they are needed and they still exist. And I have experienced most of them in person.

You are missing the symbolism of Revelation and using it to butcher Paul.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

You are missing the symbolism of Revelation and using it to butcher Paul.

No. You have accused me falsely and are doing the very thing you accuse me of. You are misusing Paul to butcher Revelation. Do the 2 witnesses come BEFORE or AFTER Revelation was written? They come AFTER. When they come, will they have the the Gift of Prophecy? Yes, they will! (Revelation 11:3). So there's PROOF that the Gifts of the Spirit endure PAST the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ and last until His 2nd coming.

 

[topher694]

I see some are still peddling a God who limits how He helps His children, limits how He talks to His children and limits how He teaches His children. What a very... limited view of God.

 

[Dave L]

No. You have accused me falsely and are doing the very thing you accuse me of. You are misusing Paul to butcher Revelation. Do the 2 witnesses come BEFORE or AFTER Revelation was written? They come AFTER. When they come, will they have the the Gift of Prophecy? Yes, they will! (Revelation 11:3). So there's PROOF that the Gifts of the Spirit endure PAST the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ and last until His 2nd coming.

Just sayin' Paul and Revelation do not contradict each other.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Just sayin' Paul and Revelation do not contradict each other.

This is correct. But saying the Gifts have ceases is lacking understanding of BOTH Paul AND Revelation.

 

[Dave L]

This is correct. But saying the Gifts have ceases is lacking understanding of BOTH Paul AND Revelation.

Not if Paul says they did.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Not if Paul says they did.

That's where you don't understand Paul. I already showed you the 2 witnesses who have the Gift of Prophecy in the future. Why can't you hear what I am clearly saying? It's plain, clear, Truth of God. Having ears, can you not hear? Having eyes, can you not see?

 

[Dave L]

That's where you don't understand Paul. I already showed you the 2 witnesses who have the Gift of Prophecy in the future. Why can't you hear what I am clearly saying?

The two witness are symbols. You will never see them unless you look for what they represent.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

The two witness are symbols. You will never see them unless you look for what they represent.

No. They are both symbolic AND literal. And what you've just done is question God's Word to me, just like Satan who said "Hath God REALLY said...?"

I already see they represent Moses and Elijah, Israel and the Church, and I've personally met 2 young men who have the spirit of these witnesses. I also met a man who bears the Mark of the Beast, and I overcame him. I'm not the one who is lacking understanding on this matter.

 

[Dave L]

No. They are both symbolic AND literal. And what you've just done is question God's Word to me, just like Satan who said "Hath God REALLY said...?"

You do not speak in tongues. You only think you do.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

You do not speak in tongues. You only think you do.

This shows me your pride. You don't know me or what Spirit I speak by. If you knew God, you would hear me.

 

[Dave L]

This shows me your pride. You don't know me or what Spirit I speak by. If you knew God, you would hear me.

Just sayin' if you speak in tongues, it isn't the real gift by any stretch.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Just sayin' if you speak in tongues, it isn't the real gift by any stretch.

Jesus said, "Do not cast your pearls before swine.". You will not get my pearls.

Now let's take it back to the Word of God..... do the 2 witnesses come BEFORE John wrote Revelation or AFTER? Are they here now, or in the future? What do you say to these things?

 

[Dave L]

Jesus said, "Do not cast your pearls before swine.". You will not get a chance to trample my pearls.

Now let's take it back to the Word of God..... do the 2 witnesses come BEFORE John wrote Revelation or AFTER? Tell me if you know.

Google it and find what you like best, but not necessarily true.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

The two witness are symbols. You will never see them unless you look for what they represent.

I have already met them in Indianapolis and seen them with my eyes. And they are full of the Spirit of God and they breath the Word of God like fire from their mouths. They rejoiced to meet me, and I rejoiced when the Holy Spirit told me who they were. You don't know what you are saying.

 

[Jonathan Mathews]

Google it and find what you like best, but not necessarily true.

I'm not asking Google, I'm asking YOU. When do YOU say the 2 witnesses of Revelation are to come? Before John wrote Revelation or AFTER?

 

[Dave L]

I'm not asking Google, I'm asking YOU. When do YOU say the 2 witnesses of Revelation are to come? Before John wrote Revelation or AFTER?

I'm not asking Google, I'm asking YOU. When do YOU say the 2 witnesses of Revelation are to come? Before John wrote Revelation or AFTER?

When do you think the come? And who do you think they are?

 

[topher694]

I'm not asking Google, I'm asking YOU. When do YOU say the 2 witnesses of Revelation are to come? Before John wrote Revelation or AFTER?

It's really not worth it my friend. All they know how to do is spout mindless gibberish - based on their idols of fear and pride - over and over and over and over.