Despite the Hysteria, Trump Is Trending Less Authoritarian Than Obama

Rion

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A president is “authoritarian” not when he’s angry or impulsive or incompetent or tweets too much. He’s authoritarian when he seeks to expand his own power beyond constitutional limits. In this regard, the Obama administration — though far more polite and restrained in most of its public comments — was truly one of our more authoritarian.

...

Liberals were blind to Obama’s authoritarian tendencies in part because they agreed with his goals and in part because their adherence to “living Constitution” theories made the separation of powers far more conditional and situational. But authoritarianism is defined by how a president exercises power, not by the rightness of his goals. It’s early, and things can obviously change, but one month into the new presidency, a trend is emerging — Trump is less authoritarian than the man he replaced.

Despite the Hysteria, Trump Is Trending Less Authoritarian Than Obama

Trump's not going to be cracking my top ten, but it does warm the cockles of my heart that he's at least trending less authoritarian than Obama. Like the author says, it's still very early on, but I figured a reality check was needed after the past two months of non-stop hysteria.
 

hedrick

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I think authoritarian is a loaded term. What Obama did doesn't match what most people mean by authoritarian. What's true is that he expanded Federal use of regulations in several areas where typically one would have wanted Congress to change laws.

I think Trump's immigration order tends in that direction, as I consider the security justification to be a smokescreen. But it will take longer to see whether Trump will make less creative use of Federal power, or will just use it in different ways. It's certainly possible that he'll use it less.

The main area in which I think Obama attacked individual rights was in dealing with whistle-blowers. It's not yet clear that Trump will be any kinder to them.
 
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Eliquin

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I think it's too soon to comment on whether Trump truly has an authoritarian style of presidency. It seems both he and Obama have/are using his position in the white house as a bully pulpit in the true sense of the word - as a platform to promote his agenda. I think the people who don't agree with that agenda are more likely to call out authoritarianism. I think his immigration ban is overreaching, over simplified, and sloppily put together. I also don't like his use of twitter and speaking against various credible news organizations, it just feels... unprofessional. It's concerning for him to attack news organizations simply because he doesn't like what they have to say. Freedom of the press is a constitutional right. I know people who freak out about potential 2nd amendment rights being violated, but don't bat an eye about potential 1st amendment rights violation.

It's really hard to find unbiased articles on either president or party. I really like the site allside.com. It tells you the bias of the article/writer. As a centrist and independent, I'm really appreciative of a site that let's you know the articles bias, if any.
 
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Rion

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I think authoritarian is a loaded term. What Obama did doesn't match what most people mean by authoritarian. What's true is that he expanded Federal use of regulations in several areas where typically one would have wanted Congress to change laws.

I think Trump's immigration order tends in that direction, as I consider the security justification to be a smokescreen. But it will take longer to see whether Trump will make less creative use of Federal power, or will just use it in different ways. It's certainly possible that he'll use it less.

The main area in which I think Obama attacked individual rights was in dealing with whistle-blowers. It's not yet clear that Trump will be any kinder to them.

Here's the thing, in regards to the immigration order, which I hadn't even thought of until reading the article:

When the Ninth Circuit blocked Trump’s immigration executive order (which was certainly an aggressive assertion of presidential power), he responded differently from the Obama administration when it faced similar judicial setbacks. Rather than race to the Supreme Court in the attempt to expand presidential authority, it backed up (yes, amid considerable presidential bluster) and told the Ninth Circuit that it intends to rewrite and rework the order to address the most serious judicial concerns and roll back its scope.

It doesn't make Trump the best thing ever, but it is worth taking into account.

Anyhow, I'd argue Obama did a lot of damage, especially in the right to detain people without a trial and executing Americans without any sort of court hearing, spying on the press and the public at large, and bolstering the POTUS' ability to ignore congress when committing to war.
 
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Vylo

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Yeah, no. He's already exceeded Obama in executive orders, and trampled the constitution in the process and had to get slapped by the courts as a result. This is not the same as what happened with Obama, though I'm sure many in the RNC had wet dreams about such things.
 
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Rion

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Is bigger government necessarily authoritarian?

It may be, but it is surely possible to be small-govt and still authoritarian.

It is possible, but the general trend throughout history has been that large governments more easily acquire and retain new powers than small ones.
 
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Gadarene

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It is possible, but the general trend throughout history has been that large governments more easily acquire and retain new powers than small ones.

I suppose the larger the government the more options you have in that regard.
 
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Rion

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Unfortunately a lot of things Obama did were bi-partisan. I'd love it if Trump pulls back, but I'm skeptical.

Oh, I don't deny that it was a bi-partisan wrecking crew. I'm not a Trump fan, I just thought it was worth keeping in mind that he is trending a tad less authoritarian right now.

Yeah, no. He's already exceeded Obama in executive orders, and trampled the constitution in the process and had to get slapped by the courts as a result. This is not the same as what happened with Obama, though I'm sure many in the RNC had wet dreams about such things.

The article specifically addresses the court issue. Barry's SOP was to run to the SCOTUS every time he was told no.

Obama Lost Supreme Court More Than Any Modern President

According to Ted Cruz, Obama has had 20+ 9-0 SCOTUS rulings against him. I don't know whether to believe him or not. On the one hand, I've been told that Texans like to exaggerate. On the other hand, I've also been told Canadians are too polite to lie.
 
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Vylo

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Oh, I don't deny that it was a bi-partisan wrecking crew. I'm not a Trump fan, I just thought it was worth keeping in mind that he is trending a tad less authoritarian right now.



The article specifically addresses the court issue. Barry's SOP was to run to the SCOTUS every time he was told no.

Obama Lost Supreme Court More Than Any Modern President

According to Ted Cruz, Obama has had 20+ 9-0 SCOTUS rulings against him. I don't know whether to believe him or not. On the one hand, I've been told that Texans like to exaggerate. On the other hand, I've also been told Canadians are too polite to lie.

That's not authoritarian then. He got told no.
 
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Tallguy88

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Yeah, no. He's already exceeded Obama in executive orders, and trampled the constitution in the process and had to get slapped by the courts as a result. This is not the same as what happened with Obama, though I'm sure many in the RNC had wet dreams about such things.
Trump has not exceeded Obama in executive orders. Obama had 276 orders, Trump has had 12 so far.
 
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Tallguy88

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10% rise in spending on the milltary seems pretty authoritarian.
Only if the military is being used to enforce Executive Policy. As it stands, the active duty military has no police power within the USA outside of certain very limited circumstances.
 
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Albion

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I think authoritarian is a loaded term. What Obama did doesn't match what most people mean by authoritarian. What's true is that he expanded Federal use of regulations in several areas where typically one would have wanted Congress to change laws.
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Maybe. But it's certainly the case that he tended towards authoritarianism moreso than any other president in recent memory...and that President Trump has exhibited nothing in particular to deserve that tag.

Yet, of course, the anti-Democracy crowd has worked to make people think that he has authoritarian intentions. That wasn't what Obama experienced in office.
 
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Albion

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I mean, having to eat your greens is oppressive, but still somehow less of a concern than military hardware.
....but it's still approximately as convincing an argument as saying that to have an adequately equipped military is tantamount to "authoritarianism."

Somewhere along the way in recent years, the extreme Left decided that "you can say anything and get away with it." At present we're seeing that trend fully employed.
 
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....but it's still approximately as convincing an argument as saying that to have an adequately equipped military is tantamount to "authoritarianism."

No, the argument made in this thread is that Trump is somehow less authoritarian because he's rolling back to a smaller government.

Buffing your military to the tune of 10% is neither small government nor non-authoritarian.

Somewhere along the way in recent years, the extreme Left decided that "you can say anything and get away with it." At present we're seeing that trend fully employed.

"You know that standard the left (allegedly) put in place and we hated? It's totally fine now"
 
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