Desolation of the physical temple

BABerean2

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Mark, Luke, and John was written after 70AD. It happened or it did not. It was not a warning. Titus did not make it into the temple. It was burned and destroyed.

Either some remembered or they did not. However the Gospels were written and sent out after 70AD. They may have been read as fulfilled, except no one wrote that 70AD fulfilled any prophecy. If Titus had accomplished such a feat, why is there no record in history?


During 167 BC Antiochus Epiphanes had his army to attack the city of Jerusalem, killing thousands of Jews, and stopping the animal sacrifices. The same thing happened during 70 AD.

Based on John 10:22, we know the Jews of Jesus time were well aware of this, since they celebrated Hanukkah every year.

When Jesus spoke the Olivet Discourse it was a prophecy, which would occur about 40 years later.

See Luke 19:41-44 for another prophecy about the destruction of the city.

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JacksBratt

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Yeah, saw the thing on Sodom and Gomorrah...I think? :scratch: Thanks! The other viewpoint on the video would solve some problems. Time will tell!:oldthumbsup:
Would it not be just like God... to take an amateur archeologist, working on his hard earned money and time.. to give that man the opportunity to discover some of the greatest treasures.

I bet... I truly bet.. that if some university funded group were to find these biblical treasures... the public would never have known.

A good example of the corruption in the study of history is in the documentary on Exodus "Patterns in Evidence.

If you ever get a chance.... watch it.

The main clue is actually uncovered by an atheist...

In the end, with all their proof, they go to the department of history and antiquities in Egypt...

The curator states, and this is mind blowing, it's right there, his face, on film, recorded...

He says "we don't care, we are not going to change all the records and books"...

Are...... you...... serious?

And we wonder why our history is so messed up and inaccurate..
 
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Douggg

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One question: What if the "temple" is the temple that Paul describes in Ephesians 2:18-22: the church?
Bruce, I think I would look at these verses...

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 
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mkgal1

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Mark, Luke, and John was written after 70AD. It happened or it did not. It was not a warning. Titus did not make it into the temple. It was burned and destroyed.
The gospels were written while the second temple was still standing:

From article: You see, Jesus had a lot to say about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. You can read about it in Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Critics say that these were words the church put into Jesus’ mouth to make him look more like a prophet. ~ There’s one terrible reason to believe the gospels were written late, and there are 7 historical…
 
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JacksBratt

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Would it not be just like God... to take an amateur archeologist, working on his hard earned money and time.. to give that man the opportunity to discover some of the greatest treasures.


Would it not be like man... even Christians.. to try to discredit the work of this man of God as well?
 
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Douggg

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Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Jacob Rothschild discusses how his family created the modern State of Israel, and leaves God out of the conversation, in the video below.

.
But you can't see Israel and Jerusalem over there in the news every day?
 
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Douggg

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Doug... Take a bit of time and look into this... It's all over the news in Israel and archeological site breaking news.

The Dome on the Rock... is not where the temple will go..

The main obstacle that people were worried about... no longer an issue.
Remains to be seen.

Following Gog/Magog, none of the muslim structures will be on the temple mount. Islam will be over, its fall like communism, and the muslim structures gone the way of the Berlin wall. The person who will remove them all will be the little horn person, who following Gog/Magog will thought to be the messiah by the Jews.
 
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BABerean2

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You what? Are you sure about that man? That's one extraordinary claim. I retain skepticism



The ark of the New Covenant is found below.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


It is much more valuable than a gold covered box, which is now "obsolete" based on Hebrews 8:13.

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.



.
 
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JacksBratt

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Remains to be seen.

Following Gog/Magog, none of the muslim structures will be on the temple mount. Islam will be over, its fall like communism, and the muslim structures gone the way of the Berlin wall. The person who will remove them all will be the little horn person, who following Gog/Magog will thought to be the messiah by the Jews.
I really doubt that Islam will be "over"... I really doubt that the dome will be removed.
Do you realize how large that religion is?
 
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Douggg

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I know the difference between a three dollar bill, and a five dollar bill.
I actually have s $2 bill.

But that is not the issue.

Can you not see Israel and Jerusalem over there in the news every day? I think you can, but you are so grounded in Covenant (later evolved to New Covenant theology) theology developed in England - which in those days back in the 1500-1600's couldn't perceive Israel becoming a nation again. You are in denial of reality.

The videos aren't going to change reality, BAB2.
 
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Douggg

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I really doubt that Islam will be "over"... I really doubt that the dome will be removed.
Do you realize how large that religion is?
Yes. And I remember growing up in the cold war days when communism was a similar global widespread threat. Korean war, Vietnam war, Cuban missile crisis, etc.
 
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Timtofly

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During 167 BC Antiochus Epiphanes had his army to attack the city of Jerusalem, killing thousands of Jews, and stopping the animal sacrifices. The same thing happened during 70 AD.

Based on John 10:22, we know the Jews of Jesus time were well aware of this, since they celebrated Hanukkah every year.

When Jesus spoke the Olivet Discourse it was a prophecy, which would occur about 40 years later.

See Luke 19:41-44 for another prophecy about the destruction of the city.

Destruction is one thing. Desecration is a totally different thing. God already stopped the sacrifices on the Cross, when God rent the veil in half. Titus stopped nothing, except a rebellion against Rome. Just because Titus got mad and sacked the city, because he was thwarted a chance to turn the temple into his own divine accomplishment, shows it was not a fulillment. God stopped Titus. No one else did, because God was not working on a Roman time schedule. God has His own time schedule, and not very many accept God’s version. Satan has been waiting for 2500 years, even Satan understands time, times and half a time.

Satan is probably like kids on a long trip, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet, see all your servants disobeying? Are we there yet? Remember no one knows, but God could have changed His own plan at any time. Messing with Scripture chronology is worse than time travel. One should understand time travel, before they just pick and choose random verses from the Bible.
 
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JacksBratt

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Yes. And I remember growing up in the cold war days when communism was a similar global widespread threat. Korean war, Vietnam war, Cuban missile crisis, etc.
Yes... and the wall came down...

Totally different than Islam.
 
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The gospels were written while the second temple was still standing:

From article: You see, Jesus had a lot to say about the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. You can read about it in Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21. Critics say that these were words the church put into Jesus’ mouth to make him look more like a prophet. ~ There’s one terrible reason to believe the gospels were written late, and there are 7 historical…
It does NOT matter what critics say. Jesus said to remember and record His words later. There is a very logical explanation. The 1st century fulfilled no prophecy. Fleeing the city before the Romans killed all in Jerusalem was a wise decision. Yet over the next 4 years, the Romans still hunted down and killed many Jews or took them as slaves. This time would not fulfill either the church tribulation nor the house of Jacob's trouble. It was still between ages. Yes, the cross was the defining moment, but the church was not born in a day. It took years for even those living with Jesus for 3.5 years to grow strong in the faith. To say any of the NT was solidified in the 1st century is just begging to make a point. No they were not written like Jesus was making things up nor fulfilling any prophecy. They were just written after the fact. The NT was not for the 1st century. It seems today that all believe that the NT was only for the 1st century. That belief is not factual historically nor logically. The NT is not even a history book. It is an autobiography of Jesus Christ. If it was it would have been written that all things had been fulfilled. But no one could know when the end would be, and thus it was always taught as sooner than later. That was a hope, not a deception.
 
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Running2win

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Would it not be just like God... to take an amateur archeologist, working on his hard earned money and time.. to give that man the opportunity to discover some of the greatest treasures.

I bet... I truly bet.. that if some university funded group were to find these biblical treasures... the public would never have known.

A good example of the corruption in the study of history is in the documentary on Exodus "Patterns in Evidence.

If you ever get a chance.... watch it.

The main clue is actually uncovered by an atheist...

In the end, with all their proof, they go to the department of history and antiquities in Egypt...

The curator states, and this is mind blowing, it's right there, his face, on film, recorded...

He says "we don't care, we are not going to change all the records and books"...

Are...... you...... serious?

And we wonder why our history is so messed up and inaccurate..

Yeah, Joel Richardson has a different view on where Mount Sinai is. He's not a big dog either. :) He also gave me a new perspective on the nature of the last Beast empire that is not popular in the West that changed my understanding- a couple of key points that really clicked with things I was questioning and studying.

And then Isis came along cutting off heads in the same area of the old Assyrian Empire- like a dry run, confirming the nature of the last Beast Empire, IMO. Time will tell. :)
 
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Running2win

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Remains to be seen.

Following Gog/Magog, none of the muslim structures will be on the temple mount. Islam will be over, its fall like communism, and the muslim structures gone the way of the Berlin wall. The person who will remove them all will be the little horn person, who following Gog/Magog will thought to be the messiah by the Jews.

If you believe Gog/Magog is before, that might work. I know you do and it is a popular teaching. I believe Ezekiel, and John are describing the same event, just a little more and different info.

Beast, man of Sin, AC, the Assyrian, Gog, the king of the North, all are talking about the same person end time scenario. It's going to be a big event for sure!
 
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mkgal1

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The 1st century fulfilled no prophecy.

Jesus said:

Matthew 24:2 ~ Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Luke 19:44 ~ They will level you to the ground--you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God."
John recorded:
Revelation 21:22 ~ But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Fulfilled ----> The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD
 
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Running2win

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Jesus said:

Matthew 24:2 ~ Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Luke 19:44 ~ They will level you to the ground--you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God."
John recorded:
Revelation 21:22 ~ But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Fulfilled ----> The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD

I agree that part of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled by the destruction in 70 AD, but there awaits a total fulfillment in the future.

We have not seen the AD that was described in Daniel ( 9,11-12) and told to watch for by Jesus, and Paul (2nd Thess.2) and the great war of the beast empire and the man speaking great boasts against God just before Jesus comes again. This is all at the 3.5 year period before Jesus comes back or both Jesus and Daniel was wrong.

We have also not seen signs in the sun, moon, and stars, the heavens parting (rolling back like a scroll) and the resurrection at the coming (parousia) of Jesus, and His throne set up on mount Zion and nations learning war no more. So my money is on the pre-mill view point to be the correct one. And at least partial dispensation view that sees a separation of national Israel and future fulfillment of the land promises.

True the Church is a spiritual Israel=Paul makes that clear, but that does not negate the fact there remains a grafting back into the tree of national Israel-where Christ is, and has always been the root,- as Paul said in Romans 11.

This allows us to see both the spiritual Church age- under the new covenant, where we as gentiles mostly, are taking the torch of God, and also a future fulfillment where national Israel takes their rightful place after being disciplined-it was their tree to start with. Like usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle, not one school of thought has it all 100% correct. That's where I'm at. :)

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.”

27“THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM,
WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS.”


11Hasten and come, all you surrounding nations,
And gather yourselves there.
Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones.

12Let the nations be aroused
And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat,
For there I will sit to judge
All the surrounding nations.

13Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe.
Come, tread, for the wine press is full;
The vats overflow, for their wickedness is great.

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision!
For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15The sun and moon grow dark
And the stars lose their brightness.

16The LORD roars from Zion
And utters His voice from Jerusalem,
And the heavens and the earth tremble.
But the LORD is a refuge for His people
And a stronghold to the sons of Israel.

17Then you will know that I am the LORD your God,
Dwelling in Zion, My holy mountain.
So Jerusalem will be holy,
And strangers will pass through it no more.


Peaceful Latter Days

1And it will come about in the last days
That the mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains.
It will be raised above the hills,
And the peoples will stream to it.

2Many nations will come and say,
“Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD
And to the house of the God of Jacob,
That He may teach us about His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For from Zion will go forth the law,
Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

3And He will judge between many peoples
And render decisions for mighty, distant nations.
Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they train for war.

4Each of them will sit under his vine
And under his fig tree,
With no one to make them afraid,
For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

5Though all the peoples walk
Each in the name of his god,
As for us, we will walk
In the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.

6“In that day,” declares the LORD,
“I will assemble the lame
And gather the outcasts,
Even those whom I have afflicted.

7“I will make the lame a remnant
And the outcasts a strong nation,
And the LORD will reign over them in Mount Zion
From now on and forever.
 
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