Desolation of the physical temple

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often
Wasn't Antiochus relevant to the Maccabean Revolt in 145 BC like it states here? I'm still wobbly on my understanding of timelines:

This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year
I use this chronology as a reference:
Temple Events


ETA: I think i understand now (maybe?):

From Josephus:

And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before
ETA more:
Antiochus Epiphanes. The year 186 BC was far too early to fit the prophecy—but the year AD 70 was not. In that year, the Roman general Titus invaded Jerusalem to crush a Jewish revolt, entered the temple, had the building destroyed, and carried off the lampstand and other temple artifacts to Rome.

It seems incontrovertible that Titus’ actions were the specific fulfillment of Jesus’ warning in
Mark 13:14 about the “abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be.” After all, the parallel verse in Matthew 24:15 says that the abomination would stand in “the holy place,” a clear reference to the temple. Christ told the disciples that when they saw the abomination, they were to flee the city. They were not to return from the field for their possessions if they were out working the crops. If they were on the roof of their home, they were not to enter the home before eeing; rather, they were to scurry down the outdoor staircases (most houses in Judea had flat roofs that people accessed via an outdoor staircase) and flee. The flight would be so perilous that winter travel would be dificult and pregnant women would find it hard to keep up (Mark 13:14–20).

Josephus, the Jewish historian who gives us the clearest first hand account of Jerusalem’s fall, reports that the Jewish Christians in Judea heeded Jesus’ warning. When the city and temple fell, more than one million Jews died. But Jewish Christians, by and large, were not among them, for they had already fled the city when they saw the Romans coming. An Abomination in the Temple
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Christ cursed the fig tree during the first century.
The parable of the fig tree generation is not when the fig tree dies, but when the fig tree begins to bloom.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

How can you not see Israel over there and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews? I would like to know how that is not visible to you?


Are you claiming Hanukkah is not related to the Book of Daniel?
hanukkah has nothing to do with Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation, time of the end Daniel 12:4-9.
 
Upvote 0

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I touched the ark of Covenant last night, and I was not killed.
It is revealed by Romans 8:9, and 1 Corinthians 3:16, and 1 John 2:27.

Based on 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and Hebrews 12:18-24, the Gold covered box which held the stone tablets is now "obsolete".


The location of the temple in Revelation 11 is found at the end of the chapter.


Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.

The Ark, Tent, and Temple, and all the things made are copies of what is in Heaven. Like it or not, there will be Temple worship in the MK, as Ezek. 40-48 shows. The overlap will come soon whenever the third Temple is built and God will be getting things ready for the MK.

1Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “SEE,” He says, “THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN.” 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

The sacrifices will be memorial in nature and I agree with you we are under the new covenant and the Ark will not be remembered anymore after Jesus comes, Jerm. 3 makes this clear. There will be no Ark in the Temple in the MK- because the Lord will be there, but there is an altar for the sacrifices (unless I misread it).

The believers in the MK will see the sacrifice of innocent animals, see the priests doing their duty, and see the real Lamb of God walking around and worship Him. All this is just like us taking the Lords supper now, they are memorial, tell a story and are for remembering- except to Catholic brothers and sisters. :)

The Ark may not be found in brought out. There was no Ark in the Temple of Jesus' day, so the Ark does not need to be there for the Jews to sacrifice and worship. Time will tell.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
All this is just like us taking the Lords supper now, they are memorial, tell a story and are for remembering- except to Catholic brothers and sisters.
What do you mean by "except to Catholic brothers and sisters "?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Jipsah
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,484
62
✟570,656.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
transgression of desolation - Daniel 8:13-14

= 2Thessalonias2:3-4 Antichrist act, sits in the temple, claiming to be God - triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.



abomination of desolation - Daniel 12:11-12

= Matthew 24:15, Revelation 13 image of the beast, placed on the temple mount grounds - triggers the tribulation of those days (1290 days long), within the Great tribulation (1335 days long).


__________________________________________________ ___________________

Temple will be cleansed of the three things that will have made it desolate at Jesus's return.

1. False Prophet - cast alive into the lake of fire

2. Beast (formerly the Antichrist) - cast alive into the lake of fire.

3. The great statue image of the beast - burst into flames and turned to ashes.


Satan exposed on the temple mount. A lone angel with a chain binds Satan and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

the little horn - 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU

the Antichrist - King of Israel, coming in his own name , the little horn following Gog/Magog, ends when revealed as the man of sin.

the beast - 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU dictator, formerly the little horn.
I believe it will be an actual desecration of the alter in the new "holy of holies in the new temple which will soon be built.. Not on the temple mount.. but lower in "The City of David" where the other temples were... factually.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,484
62
✟570,656.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I haven't heard the Jews themselves advocate that the temple they want to be built is anywhere but on what is currently described as the temple mount.

I was watching that video and they seem to be stressing that Solomon's temple was in the city of David, but they did not seem to address Herod's temple as being in the city of David. Where are all the big stones cast down from Herod's temple in the city of David?

OIP.VNuNNM1tZAJIY0w2QkPWaQHaFj
Doug... Take a bit of time and look into this... It's all over the news in Israel and archeological site breaking news.

The Dome on the Rock... is not where the temple will go..

The main obstacle that people were worried about... no longer an issue.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Like it or not, there will be Temple worship in the MK, as Ezek. 40-48 shows. The overlap will come soon whenever the third Temple is built and God will be getting things ready for the MK.

The third temple is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10.
I saw, and handled, some of the stones last night.


There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.

Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, taking vengeance on those who do not know God. How are mortals going to survive the fire?


Pastor Wagner reveals the truth about the Premill doctrine below:


.
 
Upvote 0

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,484
62
✟570,656.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Here is another (original point of view). Also, according to one of Randall Price's books- and eye witness, the Ark in in one of the tunnels under the Temple mount.

Mount Moriah or the City of David? – Israel My Glory.

IMO, finding the Ark could spur a movement to build a Temple to house it in. Where ever it is built, the Temple will be measured and accepted by God, according to Rev 11. The out side court won't.
Look into Ron Wyatt... An amature archeologist who found where they crossed the Red Sea.. one pillar on each side was found with writing on it to confirm the site.
Also, he found Sodom and Gomorrah... still has little balls of sulfur mineral that burn when you light them...
Also found a pretty good site that could be Noah's Ark..

But, his best was the site of the crucifixion with a crack in the rock.. below the site there was a cave with the ark of the covenant. Jesus blood ran down the cross, into the crack and onto the ark below...

Christ was the last sacrifice of blood on the ark... ending that age.

Sometime after he found it.. he went back into the cave and it was totally cleaned out..

I'm pretty sure that Israel knows where the ark is... and will expose it when the time is right.
 
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
10,993
11,742
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,010,474.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
I believe it will be an actual desecration of the alter in the new "holy of holies in the new temple which will soon be built.. Not on the temple mount.. but lower in "The City of David" where the other temples were... factually.

Jack, my dear friend....i agree
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The parable of the fig tree generation is not when the fig tree dies, but when the fig tree begins to bloom.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

How can you not see Israel over there and Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews? I would like to know how that is not visible to you?



hanukkah has nothing to do with Daniel 12:11-12, the abomination of desolation, time of the end Daniel 12:4-9.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Jacob Rothschild discusses how his family created the modern State of Israel, and leaves God out of the conversation, in the video below.

.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bruce Leiter

A sinner saved by God's astounding grace and love
Jun 16, 2018
782
551
81
West Michigan
Visit site
✟56,865.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
transgression of desolation - Daniel 8:13-14

= 2Thessalonias2:3-4 Antichrist act, sits in the temple, claiming to be God - triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord.



abomination of desolation - Daniel 12:11-12

= Matthew 24:15, Revelation 13 image of the beast, placed on the temple mount grounds - triggers the tribulation of those days (1290 days long), within the Great tribulation (1335 days long).


__________________________________________________ ___________________

Temple will be cleansed of the three things that will have made it desolate at Jesus's return.

1. False Prophet - cast alive into the lake of fire

2. Beast (formerly the Antichrist) - cast alive into the lake of fire.

3. The great statue image of the beast - burst into flames and turned to ashes.


Satan exposed on the temple mount. A lone angel with a chain binds Satan and Satan is cast into the bottomless pit.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

the little horn - 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU

the Antichrist - King of Israel, coming in his own name , the little horn following Gog/Magog, ends when revealed as the man of sin.

the beast - 8th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire, the EU dictator, formerly the little horn.

One question: What if the "temple" is the temple that Paul describes in Ephesians 2:18-22: the church?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Jesus was the 3rd Temple
Exactly.

Solomon said, “The Lord has said that he would dwell [shakan] in thick darkness. I have indeed built you an exalted house, a place for you to dwell [shakan] in forever” (1 Kings 8:10–13).

That's what God told John the Baptist to watch for in Jesus:

He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain” (John 1:33).

Jesus, the Son of God, was in fact God’s New House, New place of dwelling. Jesus was the New Temple. This would mean, of course, that the old temple in Jerusalem was already obsolete.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0

Lost4words

Jesus I Trust In You
Site Supporter
May 19, 2018
10,993
11,742
Neath, Wales, UK
✟1,010,474.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Well, hello old friend... I see we agree on more things these days.. It's very refreshing. :oldthumbsup:

You are a great person my friend. No hard feelings on the things we disagree about.

God bless and protect you
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: JacksBratt
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What do you mean by "except to Catholic brothers and sisters "?
Just about transubstantiation. Just the difference in viewpoints on that. You know, the stuff we always argue about. :)

To me it makes no difference what people want to believe about this. It's a minor doctrine and does not effect your salvation, although some might believe that it does.

Transubstantiation, Consubstantiation, or… | Zondervan Academic

Transubstantiation vs. Consubstantiation vs. Memorialism vs Reformed?
 
  • Useful
Reactions: mkgal1
Upvote 0

Running2win

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2020
738
464
64
St. Louis
✟25,393.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Look into Ron Wyatt... An amature archeologist who found where they crossed the Red Sea.. one pillar on each side was found with writing on it to confirm the site.
Also, he found Sodom and Gomorrah... still has little balls of sulfur mineral that burn when you light them...
Also found a pretty good site that could be Noah's Ark..

But, his best was the site of the crucifixion with a crack in the rock.. below the site there was a cave with the ark of the covenant. Jesus blood ran down the cross, into the crack and onto the ark below...

Christ was the last sacrifice of blood on the ark... ending that age.

Sometime after he found it.. he went back into the cave and it was totally cleaned out..

I'm pretty sure that Israel knows where the ark is... and will expose it when the time is right.

Yeah, saw the thing on Sodom and Gomorrah...I think? :scratch: Thanks! The other viewpoint on the video would solve some problems. Time will tell!:oldthumbsup:
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,316
568
56
Mount Morris
✟124,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


If you do not understand the celebration of Hanukkah in John 10:22, you do not understand Matthew 24:15.


The common word elements above prove the two passages are parallel.

You can only separate them by purposely ignoring John 10:22.

The Jews of Jesus day celebrated Hanukkah every year, and well understood He was talking about the attack upon the city, and the stop of temple sacrifices by Antiochus Epiphanes during 167 BC. The same thing would happen during 70 AD.
Luke's Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.
Mark, Luke, and John was written after 70AD. It happened or it did not. It was not a warning. Titus did not make it into the temple. It was burned and destroyed.

Either some remembered or they did not. However the Gospels were written and sent out after 70AD. They may have been read as fulfilled, except no one wrote that 70AD fulfilled any prophecy. If Titus had accomplished such a feat, why is there no record in history?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JacksBratt

Searching for Truth
Site Supporter
Jul 5, 2014
16,282
6,484
62
✟570,656.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
You are a great person my friend. No hard feelings on the things we disagree about.

God bless and protect you
You are too "pup".... It's always good to know you can state your view.. and still, agree or disagree.. walk away friends.
 
Upvote 0