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Featured Desiring to be rich is a snare.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by W2L, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    Groups are made up of individuals. I'm sure you understand that fact.

    And exactly how much wealth does another person have to possess for you to feel righteous about passing judgment on them? The person you're defending wouldn't answer the question. Perhaps you will to do so.
     
  2. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    So this implies that you could believe that a person who is rich and live in a mansion can still be saved and inhabit the same heaven you believe you will go to. If this is the case, why speak so negatively about the traits of your potential neighbors? Living next to people who look down on me and call me carnal minded because of their view of money is something I expect to experience down here.....not "up there."
     
  3. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    We can see the snare before us.
     
  4. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus said it Himself.
     
  5. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    And I’m sure your aware that there is a difference between judging someone’s final destiny vs
    The fruit that they produce.

    Again I agree with the OP that the desire for earthly wealth is a harmful snare.

    You have made several good points about the subjectivity of viewing who are the wealthy. But if you truly can’t see difference between some who desires wealth for the sake of earthly pleasures vs those who are humble and wish to further the kingdom with their resources than I can understand why this topic is more difficult.
     
  6. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Said what? And scripture please.
     
  7. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    And you think you can judge that by the size of a person’s bank account and the square footage of their house?
     
  8. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    How would I know what’s in someone’s bank account or the size of their house unless they told me? I don’t know any humble folks that do that.

    If they wear those things like the pharisee, then yes I am able to discern that it is wrong.
     
  9. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    What God wants :

    It isn’t vague, its a binary, black or white, either you are compliant or not. Here are claims you can bite into, argue against, if you wish.

    God wants you to stop serving mammon for earthly treasure and start serving Him for treasure in Heaven, turn away from selfish ways for results that do not last, and start aligning with selfless ways for results that are eternal.

    To be perfect, be in a position to reach the desired result immediately, we must sell everything we have, and become a disciple of Jesus. Very few do this. To the very few, the little flock, God is pleased to give the Kingdom. These, by the finger of God, perform miraculous signs, to confirm that their proclamation (to repent, meta noia, change your mind, agree, con fess, that serving mammon is bad, serving God is good) is from God.

    However, to be perfect, is a great challenge. For men it is impossible, but with God, everything is possible.

    In fact, unless God is with you, you can’t take up the challenge. If you do, and can’t complete, you will be an object of ridicule.

    So if God is not with us, does it mean that what God wants is not required of us? Or that it is required, and if we are not up to the task, we are doomed?

    The text says that if we are humble and realistic, we are to ask for terms of peace. The latter normally means to ask for time. If a King comes and asks us to be slaves or die, we can ask for time to consider the ultimatum.

    The text tells us that we can also make use of the time the deadline is extended by by making friends with those who are in the kingdom using unrighteous mammon, so that when the deadline expires we can receive a warm welcome!

    I see that those who have given up everything to follow Jesus, have the ability to perform signs so that when they proclaim God’s message (Come out of Egypt), the listeners know God is with them, just as Israel knew God was with Moses when he proclaimed the same message.

    I also see that those who use unrighteous mammon to make friends with those in the Kingdom have at least the ability to decipher Scripture in miraculous ways, have the reward of a prophet, miraculous considering they haven’t darkened the doors of any institutions of higher education, much less seminaries and theological colleges! I'm living proof of that!

    Acts 4:13
    13Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed, and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.
     
  10. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Hm...not sure I understood. Newman simply acknowledged the truth of this worlds values. And opposed them.
     
  11. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    The question is, are you for using wealth and material possessions to measure ones spirituality or relationship with God.
     
  12. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Where your treasure is, so is your heart. You cannot get past this. This is the narrow path.
     
  13. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    To be decieved, you have to believe that you aren't, and that everyone else is wrong and you are right.

    One whose treasures are in heaven do not spend so much time gazing at the "treasures" of the earth.

    The kingdom of heaven can't be bought, it is given through the grace of God.

    I encourage you to consider more important things than money and material possessions, when you see mammon and wealth mentioned in the bible....But I can understand if you can't find anything more important than money to consider......It is a snare as you say.
     
  14. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Its a snare alright, but i freed myself from it years ago.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Well, of course not. A rather odd question considering the nature of these forums.
     
  16. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    If you find the question odd, you have not been keeping up with the posts in this thread. But thanks for your response. And I agree.
     
  17. Phil 1:21

    Phil 1:21 Well-Known Member

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    And how would that look, exactly?
     
  18. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    You're right-I haven't been following. But I'll add this. God does not hate rich people. The problem is that rich people don't easily come to love God; they find it hard to humble themselves in faith because they've been deceived, thinking they've achieved status and security already, without Him. Pride is difficult for us to overcome and pride opposes God by its nature.

    When Jesus said that it was 'harder for a rich man to enter heaven...', the apostles were shocked; even then and there people assumed that rich folk must be "doing things right". So the apostles asked, "Who, then, can be saved?" And as we know Jesus replied, "For man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

    It's not about the need to be made poor; its about the need to be broken, to become humbled before God instead of before wealth or anything else. And I've seen rich people so humbled, by a tragedy, by a miracle, by whatever God uses in their particular case.
     
  19. Wordkeeper

    Wordkeeper Newbie

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    Let's not beat about the bush. If a man burdened with wealth has realised the difficulty that it poses to entry into the kingdom, he will seek Gods help in solving the problem, because all things are possible with God.

    I do not think that someone who does not change His lifestyle, but persists with it, acquiring bigger houses, more cars, has seen the kingdom.


    Scripture is not silent about rich converts, about how they should repent, meta noia, change their mind about who to serve, mammon for treasure that does not last, or God for eternal treasure. If the rich young ruler had asked God to help him, he would have received help. Here's how:

    James 2:9-11
    9But the brother of humble circumstances is to glory in his high position; 10and the rich man is to glory in his humiliation, because like flowering grass he will pass away. 11For the sun rises with a scorching wind and withers the grass; and its flower falls off and the beauty of its appearance is destroyed; so too the rich man in the midst of his pursuits will fade away.

    Without being born again, repenting, changing mind about the danger of serving mammon to the necessity of serving God, we cannot even SEE the kingdom of God, much less enter it:

    John 3:3
    3Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


    This is Sculptural advice for leaders to avoid returning to Egypt (let's understand that in the Near East, the Biblical region, even today, wives and children were considered chattel, property).

    Deuteronomy 17:16, 17
    16“Moreover, he shall not multiply horses for himself, nor shall he cause the people to return to Egypt to multiply horses, since the LORD has said to you, ‘You shall never again return that way.’ 17“He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.


    1 Timothy 3:2-3
    2An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

    Many believers don't understand that repentance, meta noia, change of mind, is turning away from VALUING money, to holding God as their treasure. It's not accidental that the rich man had to sell all he possessed to buy the treasure beyond price.

    Matthew 13:44
    44"The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid again; and from joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

    This is one of the hard teachings. It's not surprising it's not taught that one had to give everything up to be a disciple, that we are mostly on probation. The churches would be empty if the teaching was communicated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  20. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Probably similar to the people Paul had in mind when he wrote 1 Timothy 6.

    Paul told the church to watch out for these types of people. To say we cannot discern (or judge) goes right against what Paul taught.

    I’ll put it in today’s terms for you.
    The American dream is a dangerous snare. You cannot serve God and the American dream. If anyone tells you that it is ok to pursue the America dream while being a christian, I would be wary of his or her words.
     
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