Describe your Theological method

com7fy8

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Unless you know what the historic church taught, you do not know theology.

@dms1972 > Of course, various ones claim their group or only their group is now the historical church. But you might note how certain ones, not all, can mainly talk about what is authoritative doctrine and practice, but they do not talk about the example which Jesus and His first leaders have established. So, here, I would like to share about how the historical church started with the things given in our New Testament, but also the example of Christ's approved leaders. And so, now we need example as well as beliefs and practices. So, below I plan to offer about this >

Not only do we need what was taught by the Apostles, but we need their example being followed; do we now live the love with which our historical leaders have ministered?

In any case, yes, we need what our historical leaders have given us.

Therefore I gave quotes from the Bible, which has the New Testament, which includes what our Apostles Paul and Peter and John taught as our first historical leaders in Jesus Christ's church.

But > at the exact time as they taught, already there were religious leaders not teaching what they taught. And now there still are ones who do not teach what they taught.

For only one example > our first church teachers include what is part of our basic calling > for every Christian "called in one body" >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Whom do you know now, personally, who is an example and teacher that our basic calling in Christianity includes that we all "in one body" are personally ruled by our Heavenly Father's own peace in our "hearts"? Or, do you disagree that Paul means this??

To me it is clear that we are all called to this; so I would say this is a basic of our Christian church's calling, and therefore what now our Christian leaders are making a point of having us know. Therefore, who now has made a point of having you know this? . . . since they uphold what Christ's historical church teaches.

To me, this means God wants us to personally submit to Him, all the time in this peace. So, I consider this to be important basic teaching and doctrine which the historical church makes a point of having us know. But it seems to me as though a number of preachers and church people talk about God like He is distant and theoretical, and as though we are supposed to control and guide our own selves; I have actually heard speakers deny that God wants us to have our wills and choice making constantly in submission to our Father in His peace. And people are struggling and fighting and burnt out and immoral and arguing, because they and their relating are not submissive to God in His peace.

To me, it is clear that Colossians 3:15 means God desires for us to personally share with Him in His own peace, all the time. This means we personally experience Him, all the time . . . in His own peace. But it seems some number of Bible claiming people and groups do not talk about God like He is so personal with us. They treat Him like He is distant and theoretical, a matter of beliefs and practices, and only keeping a record on us, from some distance, and expecting us to just change things in people's affairs.

And so, also, their own way with people is distant and impersonal, more about controlling and conforming outward show; and ones can't relate without worrying and fearing and fighting and immorality which keep people from being deeply and truly intimate. You can see people showing for maybe an hour a week and they don't last talking for more than half an hour before they feel they have to go somewhere else . . . not how I would relate with someone who is intimate with me in God's love, I would say.

Jesus spent hours in the garden with His disciples. Paul and Silvanus and Timothy cared personally for the Thessalonians "just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children" and "exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:7&11)

So, we have this example of the historical church leadership, to follow, not only ideas and explanations and practices . . . but how God's leaders are personal and intimate in His family love's way, like how He is so intimate with us in His peace.

So, your theology study needs to include real-life experience in how God's word means for us to share with and submit to God and how His leaders have us finding out how to relate in His love. A good teacher will demonstrate. God in us has us discovering how He means for us to live His word >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
 
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Dave L

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@dms1972 > Of course, various ones claim their group or only their group is now the historical church. But you might note how certain ones, not all, can mainly talk about what is authoritative doctrine and practice, but they do not talk about the example which Jesus and His first leaders have established. So, here, I would like to share about how the historical church started with the things given in our New Testament, but also the example of Christ's approved leaders. And so, now we need example as well as beliefs and practices. So, below I plan to offer about this >

Not only do we need what was taught by the Apostles, but we need their example being followed; do we now live the love with which our historical leaders have ministered?

In any case, yes, we need what our historical leaders have given us.

Therefore I gave quotes from the Bible, which has the New Testament, which includes what our Apostles Paul and Peter and John taught as our first historical leaders in Jesus Christ's church.

But > at the exact time as they taught, already there were religious leaders not teaching what they taught. And now there still are ones who do not teach what they taught.

For only one example > our first church teachers include what is part of our basic calling > for every Christian "called in one body" >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Whom do you know now, personally, who is an example and teacher that our basic calling in Christianity includes that we all "in one body" are personally ruled by our Heavenly Father's own peace in our "hearts"? Or, do you disagree that Paul means this??

To me it is clear that we are all called to this; so I would say this is a basic of our Christian church's calling, and therefore what now our Christian leaders are making a point of having us know. Therefore, who now has made a point of having you know this? . . . since they uphold what Christ's historical church teaches.

To me, this means God wants us to personally submit to Him, all the time in this peace. So, I consider this to be important basic teaching and doctrine which the historical church makes a point of having us know. But it seems to me as though a number of preachers and church people talk about God like He is distant and theoretical, and as though we are supposed to control and guide our own selves; I have actually heard speakers deny that God wants us to have our wills and choice making constantly in submission to our Father in His peace. And people are struggling and fighting and burnt out and immoral and arguing, because they and their relating are not submissive to God in His peace.

To me, it is clear that Colossians 3:15 means God desires for us to personally share with Him in His own peace, all the time. This means we personally experience Him, all the time . . . in His own peace. But it seems some number of Bible claiming people and groups do not talk about God like He is so personal with us. They treat Him like He is distant and theoretical, a matter of beliefs and practices, and only keeping a record on us, from some distance, and expecting us to just change things in people's affairs.

And so, also, their own way with people is distant and impersonal, more about controlling and conforming outward show; and ones can't relate without worrying and fearing and fighting and immorality which keep people from being deeply and truly intimate. You can see people showing for maybe an hour a week and they don't last talking for more than half an hour before they feel they have to go somewhere else . . . not how I would relate with someone who is intimate with me in God's love, I would say.

Jesus spent hours in the garden with His disciples. Paul and Silvanus and Timothy cared personally for the Thessalonians "just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children" and "exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:7&11)

So, we have this example of the historical church leadership, to follow, not only ideas and explanations and practices . . . but how God's leaders are personal and intimate in His family love's way, like how He is so intimate with us in His peace.

So, your theology study needs to include real-life experience in how God's word means for us to share with and submit to God and how His leaders have us finding on how to relate in His love. A good teacher will demonstrate. God in us has us discovering how He means for us to live His word >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)
Theology = God study. Anything else is not God study.
 
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com7fy8

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Theology = God study. Anything else is not God study.
And so, what has helped you?

By the way, can you study God without actually experiencing how He shares with us and personally guides us in His own peace?
 
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Dave L

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And so, what has helped you?

By the way, can you study God without actually experiencing how He shares with us and personally guides us in His own peace?
You can't run on vibes and get anywhere. It takes a study.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi,

I am finding my head is full of theological ideas and I am struggling a lot to know how to filter it all, and to avoid ideas that are erroneous or deficient. I suppose my reading of theology is part of my own search for truth and to be able to function and live it out.

My experience is that I have often found much that I think is of value in theologians that theological prejudices of others would have cautioned me against looking into. Finding someone who can truely understand where I am at and guide me in my reading is so rare, when people suggest anything they just suggest what they are benefiting from reading - which might well be completely irrelevant to me.

In any case please share or describe if you will your own theological method of study if you have one - I mean how you came to hold any theological positions you may hold, to what extent you pray about theological matters, whether you discuss with others or figure it out by yourself, read widely or narrowly, compare and contrast etc.
Basically theological systems have their root based on the Gospel. I look at what each of them has in common, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. From there it is an array of ways to interpret scripture. This is why our Lord told us that He is our only teacher through His Holy Spirit. Most do not follow this one simple rule. So before I dive into one theologic view to another I ask myself "is this the will of the Father?" You will be amazed how clear the message of the Good News shines through.
So my theological system is the Father's will. Be blessed.
 
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Dave L

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Basically theological systems have their root based on the Gospel. I look at what each of them has in common, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. From there it is an array of ways to interpret scripture. This is why our Lord told us that He is our only teacher through His Holy Spirit. Most do not follow this one simple rule. So before I dive into one theologic view to another I ask myself "is this the will of the Father?" You will be amazed how clear the message of the Good News shines through.
So my theological system is the Father's will. Be blessed.
Can you define the trinity by doing this?
 
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com7fy8

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You can't run on vibes and get anywhere. It takes a study.
That's right. God's peace is not a vibe; we need to have what God's word is talking about so we know what His word means.

Books and words by themselves do not tell us, for one example, what God's peace is and how this peace effects us. We need to study by actually experiencing.

For example >

"the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

This is in our historical document of our Apostle Paul. This is a theological basic of what becomes of a person who is with God praying the way His word says to pray, in Philippians 4:6-7.

Our theology is that God is almighty; the logic is that therefore His peace is almighty to guard our hearts and minds . . . "through Christ Jesus". So, in studying this, we then can expect that God wants us to trust how He personally guards our hearts and minds, so Satan's anti-peace things do not get the better of us.

So, I now understand that Biblical theology will bring us to sharing with God in His own peace which is not only a feel-good bribe, but almighty to protect our hearts and minds, including against cruel and abusive things like arguing and complaining (Philippians 2:13-16), and unforgiveness (Mark 11:25), and false intimacy of pleasure which is just a vibe thing.

So, thank you for pointing out that love with God is not merely a vibe thing. Amen.

And, therefore, God in us is not only making us feel like doing what He wants, but in our wills He is working us >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

And our historical church leader Paul has shared his example of this, I would say > he says how he ministered >

"striving according to His working which works in me mightily." (in Colossians 1:28-29)

The theology I see from this is God loves us and desires to so personally share with us in our ministering . . . so we are laboring "according to His working" in us . . . in such sharing with God Himself. This theologically shows me how personal God is with us who are His children. And so, this is theology which we experience, how He in us shares and demonstrates. We study Him, by actually experiencing Him doing this with us.

"Therefore submit to God," we have in James 4:7, written by James another of our historical leaders. We discover and study God, by personally submitting to Him, Himself in us, I get through this.

So, indeed, there are not only vibes, but even actual personal submitting to God Himself who certainly is not just a feeling or a vibe. Amen.

So, yes we do need study. But a definition of a word, alone, can not have us know what and how God's peace really is, for one example. His word is speaking about realities which we need to discover so we know what theological words mean. No amount of words, by themselves, can tell us this.

It is like if you want to study the sun > words alone can't tell you about the sun, unless you have experienced the sun. And because humans are so distant from the sun, they are missing something.

There is a lot of distant theology, tied up in words and arguing about them and making claims without claiming all we can share in Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Many are into their head theology, but it does not bring us to "rest for your souls." Jesus's way of learning does.

I now think of this > @dms1972 > Jesus gives us freely (Matthew 10:8). But there are people who make you pay who knows how much money and time to get what they claim they can give you. And ones in their ways of study can be burnt out and grinding themselves, instead of resting in Jesus. And Jesus has us helping one another > Colossians 3:16, Ephesians 4:15. Because we are members of each other; we learn as family :)
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Can you define the trinity by doing this?
What is the Father's will on the topic of the Trinity?
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Hi,

I am finding my head is full of theological ideas and I am struggling a lot to know how to filter it all, and to avoid ideas that are erroneous or deficient. I suppose my reading of theology is part of my own search for truth and to be able to function and live it out.

My experience is that I have often found much that I think is of value in theologians that theological prejudices of others would have cautioned me against looking into. Finding someone who can truely understand where I am at and guide me in my reading is so rare, when people suggest anything they just suggest what they are benefiting from reading - which might well be completely irrelevant to me.

In any case please share or describe if you will your own theological method of study if you have one - I mean how you came to hold any theological positions you may hold, to what extent you pray about theological matters, whether you discuss with others or figure it out by yourself, read widely or narrowly, compare and contrast etc.

Life is long, and God's instruction is: "Take MY YOKE upon you, and Learn of ME". And so to me that means do what you know to be HIS WILL in situations, and find out what the Bible says, since the Holy SPirit will lean into understanding - where necessary. I've listened to a lot of teaching (get some in church every sunday). I've read books, and been a member of several Visible Church systems (Baptist, Church of Christ, United Methodist, United Church of Christ, Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International, Independent Charismatic, and for MOST of the last 57 years, Assemblies of God. The result is that I'm a "Non systematic, Theologically eclectic, Calvinist leaning, Free range Charismatic". ANd STILL "Learning of Him". I'm a member in good standing of the Assemblies of God, but I'm not defined by them.

Part of that verse states that HI YOKE IS EASY and HIS BURDEN IS LIGHT. If the "Yoke" you're bearing is NOT EASY, and your religious "burden" is HEAVY - then it's not HIS YOKE.
 
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philadelphos

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Theology is a whole lot wider than that!

Theology, not matter how wide or narrow, is a delusional folly, a humanistic self-aggrandisement, in that it attempts to contain (in the contents of theological books, articles, doctrines, and creeds) that which is infinite, boundless, larger than life and creation itself, El Elyon, God Most High. Information that is beyond man's comprehension albeit that which our Father spoon feeds to us, in portions of Scripture and lessons in life.

Isaiah 66, "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not."

Lorraine Boettner,
theologically speaking, is a solid starting reference in the Calvinist/Puritan framework. Clear concise points, structured, solid supporting texts. His book on predestination is a classic, frequently referenced by other authors/accademics. The assumptions in this school of thought however are sweeping, and I would argue have critical flaws, based on errors and precedences laid by the RCC, historically, in councils, traditions, religious movements, and political agendas. - See warning in Jude 1.

The caveat in Scripture (e.g. Col 2:8) is to avoid traditions of men... rather to devote oneself to God, penitent, believing/faithful, commandment-keeping, a witness, and loving God and neighbour. A living testimony.

While Corinthians 13 and other passages have very helpful definitions of 'love', I find that love is like a language, like food for the hungry, water for the thirsty. And the difficulty with 'theo-logy' as a study, is that 'study' (particularly following along the lines of men and traditions of men, be it dogmatically, doctrinally, systematically, biblically, spiritually, or whatever) can and often is devoid of love, which is key, the acid test, because the Father is love. See the irony? True theology will not contradict God. One must eat while spitting out the bones. To identify truths/pearls of wisdom amongst lies, false teachings, hypocrisies, traditions, histories, genealogies, such that the Lord condemned in the 'pharisaic' 2nd Temple era.

1 John 4:20, "If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?"
 
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philadelphos

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Sometimes I think we over-complicate it.

"At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” He called a child, whom he put among them, and said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever becomes humble like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18: 1-4​

Self-appeasement perhaps, narcissism.

"Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him."
1 Cor. 8:1-3

Lacking affection, good-will, love, benevolence... Agape (ἀγάπη), G26 - agapē - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
 
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Dave L

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That's right. God's peace is not a vibe; we need to have what God's word is talking about so we know what His word means.

Books and words by themselves do not tell us, for one example, what God's peace is and how this peace effects us. We need to study by actually experiencing.

For example >

"the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

This is in our historical document of our Apostle Paul. This is a theological basic of what becomes of a person who is with God praying the way His word says to pray, in Philippians 4:6-7.

Our theology is that God is almighty; the logic is that therefore His peace is almighty to guard our hearts and minds . . . "through Christ Jesus". So, in studying this, we then can expect that God wants us to trust how He personally guards our hearts and minds, so Satan's anti-peace things do not get the better of us.

So, I now understand that Biblical theology will bring us to sharing with God in His own peace which is not only a feel-good bribe, but almighty to protect our hearts and minds, including against cruel and abusive things like arguing and complaining (Philippians 2:13-16), and unforgiveness (Mark 11:25), and false intimacy of pleasure which is just a vibe thing.

So, thank you for pointing out that love with God is not merely a vibe thing. Amen.

And, therefore, God in us is not only making us feel like doing what He wants, but in our wills He is working us >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

And our historical church leader Paul has shared his example of this, I would say > he says how he ministered >

"striving according to His working which works in me mightily." (in Colossians 1:28-29)

The theology I see from this is God loves us and desires to so personally share with us in our ministering . . . so we are laboring "according to His working" in us . . . in such sharing with God Himself. This theologically shows me how personal God is with us who are His children. And so, this is theology which we experience, how He in us shares and demonstrates. We study Him, by actually experiencing Him doing this with us.

"Therefore submit to God," we have in James 4:7, written by James another of our historical leaders. We discover and study God, by personally submitting to Him, Himself in us, I get through this.

So, indeed, there are not only vibes, but even actual personal submitting to God Himself who certainly is not just a feeling or a vibe. Amen.

So, yes we do need study. But a definition of a word, alone, can not have us know what and how God's peace really is, for one example. His word is speaking about realities which we need to discover so we know what theological words mean. No amount of words, by themselves, can tell us this.

It is like if you want to study the sun > words alone can't tell you about the sun, unless you have experienced the sun. And because humans are so distant from the sun, they are missing something.

There is a lot of distant theology, tied up in words and arguing about them and making claims without claiming all we can share in Jesus >

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

Many are into their head theology, but it does not bring us to "rest for your souls." Jesus's way of learning does.

I now think of this > @dms1972 > Jesus gives us freely (Matthew 10:8). But there are people who make you pay who knows how much money and time to get what they claim they can give you. And ones in their ways of study can be burnt out and grinding themselves, instead of resting in Jesus. And Jesus has us helping one another > Colossians 3:16, Ephesians 4:15. Because we are members of each other; we learn as family :)
Peace is not grounded in truth. Even hippies preached peace.
 
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It describes the Trinity and how it functions. The Father is in Christ. Christ, the Son is in us. The Holy Spirit unites us.
That's nothing like the refined statement of historic theology.
 
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Hi,

I am finding my head is full of theological ideas and I am struggling a lot to know how to filter it all, and to avoid ideas that are erroneous or deficient. I suppose my reading of theology is part of my own search for truth and to be able to function and live it out.

My experience is that I have often found much that I think is of value in theologians that theological prejudices of others would have cautioned me against looking into. Finding someone who can truely understand where I am at and guide me in my reading is so rare, when people suggest anything they just suggest what they are benefiting from reading - which might well be completely irrelevant to me.

In any case please share or describe if you will your own theological method of study if you have one - I mean how you came to hold any theological positions you may hold, to what extent you pray about theological matters, whether you discuss with others or figure it out by yourself, read widely or narrowly, compare and contrast etc.

Meditating on the word in a without ceasing and collective sense for me is my theological method, that is if one could reduce it down to such words.

My position is relationship, and really there are very few I discuss these things with because most I find are not willing to enter in let alone remain.
 
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