Describe the healthcare system Catholics should unite to demand from our politicians.

[NewLove]

You'll find pretty much every system works if you are just willing to ignore the times that it doesn't.

I didn't suggest we ignore the times it doesn't. We should learn from the times it doesn't, consider what our Church teaches, and demand a just and efficient system.

 

[MoonlessNight]

I didn't suggest we ignore the times it doesn't. We should learn from the times it doesn't, consider what our Church teaches, and demand a just and efficient system.

Sometimes the lesson is that the system is unworkable. You can learn a lot by jumping off a roof in an attempt to fly, but no matter how much you learn from the experience you won't be able to fly unaided.

 

[NewLove]

Sometimes the lesson is that the system is unworkable. You can learn a lot by jumping off a roof in an attempt to fly, but no matter how much you learn from the experience you won't be able to fly unaided.

We've seen some very good socoized healthcare systems though, resulting in lower infant mortality, longer life expectancy, and longer life expectancy after cancer or heart disease diagnosis. Lower rates of cancer and heart disease too, but that could be argued to be because Americans have unhealthy lifestyles, not merely inferior healthcare.

This discussion is intended to be about what Catholics should lobby for that will best serve all of us though, not merely why you don't like plan X.

 

[Erose]

How do you propose local police, fire, school, etc services be funded?

I'm not against taxes, as they are needed. Sales taxes have always worked to raise government revenue Heck I would propose a monthly fee sent out to families for each individual service if that is necessary. The government shouldn't take over one's property and force them to pay an extortion fee to keep living on it. That is evil and that is not freedom.

 

[Erose]

This discussion is intended to be about what Catholics should lobby for that will best serve all of us though, not merely why you don't like plan X.

I already gave my opinion. Catholics should lobby for a healthcare system based upon freedom. That doesn't mean a free healthcare system as that is an impossibility. You will pay for it no matter who is in charge, don't forget that.

 

[NewLove]

I already gave my opinion. Catholics should lobby for a healthcare system based upon freedom. That doesn't mean a free healthcare system as that is an impossibility. You will pay for it no matter who is in charge, don't forget that.

Nobody is forgetting that, every plan costs money. Your plan, if I read you correctly, depends on optional charity to provide for the least fortunate?

 

[NewLove]

I'm not against taxes, as they are needed. Sales taxes have always worked to raise government revenue Heck I would propose a monthly fee sent out to families for each individual service if that is necessary. The government shouldn't take over one's property and force them to pay an extortion fee to keep living on it. That is evil and that is not freedom.

Now I have to pay a fire bill, a police bill, a road bill, a maintain the parks and ball diamonds bill, a keep the lights on in City Hall bill, a school bill, etc? That sounds like a whole thing. I'd rather just pay my property tax to fund these services, so long as I own my property, I benefit from them.

 

[Erose]

Now I have to pay a fire bill, a police bill, a road bill, a maintain the parks and ball diamonds bill, a keep the lights on in City Hall bill, a school bill, etc? That sounds like a whole thing. I'd rather just pay my property tax to fund these services, so long as I own my property, I benefit from them.

Here is the thing. If you pay property tax you don't truly own your property. You can sell it yes, but that is about it. Also I think if you and every one else of us out here started to see where money is really going and how much is being spent by many of these bloated government entities, you as a fee payer would hold them more accountable. Where I live, I do not pay property taxes, as I have homestead exemption. So I get a once a year bill basically paying a sheriff department fee of $50.00. That is it. Water I pay a monthly fee for that. Electrical I pay for that. If I need the fire department? I pay for services rendered. So some of us already do. Concerning parks? The parks we have here are paid for through tournament and rental fees and private donations, and not taxes.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

QUESTION: Describe the healthcare system Catholics should unite to demand from our politicians.
ANSWER: None. This is a free nation, and our Constitution tells us what the federal government can do, and it has no business in healthcare. This conversation has gone so far out of whack that everybody has lost site of the Constitution. States are free to devise systems that suit their state but the federal government has no role. Obamacare, and the Republican replacement, are blatant violations of the Constitution. Does anybody even care about that?

 

[Erose]

Nobody is forgetting that, every plan costs money. Your plan, if I read you correctly, depends on optional charity to provide for the least fortunate?

Charity has always been the best means to help the downtrodden.

 

[CatholicCrusader]

Charity has always been the best means to help the downtrodden.

Charity from the individual, not forced imposed charity by a massive government

 

[MikeK]

Charity has always been the best means to help the downtrodden.

Why do we have so many downtrodden people, even though we are such a rich country? Why are there Americans dying because they cannot afford first-rate healthcare? Why are there American veterans who suffer so much from the after-effects of their service and complain that there is not sufficient care available to them? Citizens of the United States have an awful lot of money, why aren't they providing the needed care for the downtrodden?

 

[Erose]

Why do we have so many downtrodden people, even though we are such a rich country? Why are there Americans dying because they cannot afford first-rate healthcare? Why are there American veterans who suffer so much from the after-effects of their service and complain that there is not sufficient care available to them? Citizens of the United States have an awful lot of money, why aren't they providing the needed care for the downtrodden?

You answered you own questions. Its called bureaucracy and over-dependence upon the government. Do you think that those who are in the "system" have first rate healthcare. And if not, then why not?

 

[MikeK]

You answered you own questions. Its called bureaucracy and over-dependence upon the government. Do you think that those who are in the "system" have first rate healthcare. And if not, then why not?

Some of us do have first rate healthcare, those who can afford it. Why are we not providing excellent care for the downtrodden since we are collectively rich and you're so convinced that optional charity is the best way to provide for them?

 

[Erose]

Some of us do have first rate healthcare, those who can afford it. Why are we not providing excellent care for the downtrodden since we are collectively rich and you're so convinced that optional charity is the best way to provide for them?

Then all I can say is pay for it for them. If you think that the government will provide first rate healthcare for everyone, ... I don't know what to say about your naivety on the matter. As one who has experienced first hand government run healthcare, well first rate isn't what I would call it.

 

[MikeK]

Then all I can say is pay for it for them. If you think that the government will provide first rate healthcare for everyone, ... I don't know what to say about your naivety on the matter. As one who has experienced first hand government run healthcare, well first rate isn't what I would call it.

Do you know which countries, judging by metrics like average lifespan and infant mortality, have the most effective healthcare systems?

 

[Erose]

Do you know which countries, judging by metrics like average lifespan and infant mortality, have the most effective healthcare systems?

I would imagine they would be the same countries, with low obesity rates, low rates of smoking and alcoholism as well.

 

[MikeK]

I would imagine they would be the same countries, with low obesity rates, low rates of smoking and alcoholism as well.

Yes, each of those are public health crisis that we haven't done a great job of addressing. Some governments do a very good job of encouraging healthy lifestyles. Maybe we need some more charities aimed at combatting those issues.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charity has always been the best means to help the downtrodden.

This statement is provably false, has no historical, statistical or observational example of actually being true and is one of those sophomoric things that immature Christians like to say in order to make people think that virtuous behavior somehow imparts virtue on the those who benefit from the behavior.

Understand your own theology:

Charity is a virtue for those giving it, not receiving it.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

You answered you own questions. Its called bureaucracy and over-dependence upon the government. Do you think that those who are in the "system" have first rate healthcare. And if not, then why not?

Medicaid runs at about 4% over cost (most insurance companies run at 18%-20%- the used to run higher butt the ACA makes them refund money higher the 20).

Private "bureaucracy" in health care is horrible. In the public sector they just pay the agreed on prices for service. Private companies will try to not pay for services any way they can. This mean a huge bureaucracy dedicated to weaseling out of paying a bill.

Medicaid offers some dang good care at a pretty good price.