Describe the healthcare system Catholics should unite to demand from our politicians.

NewLove

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The title says it all. We know we have a duty to proclaim the truths of the Church and to look out for others. Healthcare is a hot button issue in the USA right now, and perhaps in other countries as well. At least in the USA, we are witnessing our leaders refuse to bring acceptable policies to the table. These politicians are our servants, what should we be calling on them to do?

I would like to a single payer system, overseen by a panel of a combination of appointed and elected well-compe dated experts in the fields of business, medicine, and human services tasked with making sure that costs are as reasonable as possible and service excellent. The performance of these experts would be regularly compared and contrasted with the best systems in the world to ensure their performance. I'd like to see all required and recommended medical services and medications covered, but not elective services like non-reconstructive plastic surgery or sex changes. I think birth control should be covered, but certainly not abortion. What say you?
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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The title says it all. We know we have a duty to proclaim the truths of the Church and to look out for others. Healthcare is a hot button issue in the USA right now, and perhaps in other countries as well. At least in the USA, we are witnessing our leaders refuse to bring acceptable policies to the table. These politicians are our servants, what should we be calling on them to do?

I would like to a single payer system, overseen by a panel of a combination of appointed and elected well-compe dated experts in the fields of business, medicine, and human services tasked with making sure that costs are as reasonable as possible and service excellent. The performance of these experts would be regularly compared and contrasted with the best systems in the world to ensure their performance. I'd like to see all required and recommended medical services and medications covered, but not elective services like non-reconstructive plastic surgery or sex changes. I think birth control should be covered, but certainly not abortion. What say you?



You mention reasonable costs. We have over 40% of the population that doesn't work leaving
Roughly half the country to foot the bill.


The government is in a complete state of gridlock more concerned with personal attacks than doing the business of the people. They are incapable of adhering to a budget and controlling the deficit.


It will never happen.
 
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NewLove

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You mention reasonable costs. We have over 40% of the population that doesn't work leaving
Roughly half the country to foot the bill.


The government is in a complete state of gridlock more concerned with personal attacks than doing the business of the people. They are incapable of adhering to a budget and controlling the deficit.


It will never happen.

That isn't the question I asked. The politicians will do what we the people demand they do. If you want to pretend that populist movements have never overcome government gridlock that's fine, just talk about what you'd demand if you were the sort that makes demands and holds elected officials accountable.

Of course, when one looks at our GDP per capita contrasted with other first world countries, no coherent argument can be made that the country cannot afford whatever healthcare plan the people desire.

Decent people must do better than "shucks, politicians are crooks, we'll never have nice things.."
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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You mention reasonable costs. We have over 40% of the population that doesn't work leaving
Roughly half the country to foot the bill.


The government is in a complete state of gridlock more concerned with personal attacks than doing the business of the people. They are incapable of adhering to a budget and controlling the deficit.


It will never happen.

You're sort of a class half empty sort of person aren't you ?

To answer the question:

Properly funded Medicare part E.

Medicare for everyone. It's basic care and costs one tenth what comparable healthcare costs.

If you want more, go buy more from a heath insurance company.

Since basic care is covered the additional insurance won't be that expensive.

This isn't actually as big a deal as it sounds.

Between the VA, Medicare and Medicaid something like 40% is already covered by a government sponsored plan.

We're almost 50% there already. combine them all, make the pool of people rigger, therefore cheaper to insure and fund it properly.

There you go.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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You're sort of a class half empty sort of person aren't you ?

To answer the question:

Properly funded Medicare part E.

Medicare for everyone. It's basic care and costs one tenth what comparable healthcare costs.

If you want more, go buy more from a heath insurance company.

Since basic care is covered the additional insurance won't be that expensive.

This isn't actually as big a deal as it sounds.

Between the VA, Medicare and Medicaid something like 40% is already covered by a government sponsored plan.

We're almost 50% there already. combine them all, make the pool of people rigger, therefore cheaper to insure and fund it properly.

There you go.




You want Govt run healthcare the take a look at the VA. This story is from 6 days ago at New Hamshires only VA facilty.



MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — Veterans Affairs Secretary David Shulkin has removed two top officials at New Hampshire’s only veterans hospital and ordered a review of the facility starting Monday amid allegations of ‘‘dangerously substandard care.’’

The Boston Globe reported that 11 physicians and medical employees alleged the Manchester VA Medical Center was endangering patients. They described a fly-infested operating room, surgical instruments that weren’t always sterilized and patients whose conditions were ignored or weren’t treated properly.

The Office of the Special Counsel, a federal whistle-blower agency, found ‘‘substantial likelihood’’ the allegations were true and ordered an investigation, which began in January.



Kimberly Roy of Merrimack said when her husband sought care several times for a crippling headache, neck pain and high fever in May, Manchester VA providers told him it was just a headache and sent him home.

‘‘He lost 15 pounds, he couldn’t feel his left side of his body,’’ she said. ‘‘They just kept sending him home.’’

Her husband was asked repeatedly if he was abusing drugs, she said, and one doctor told her, ‘‘He does have a lot of tattoos.’’ After she posted a complaint on Facebook, the VA contacted the couple, and her husband was seen by a specialist. He eventually was sent to Concord Hospital, where he was diagnosed with viral meningitis. After a week and a half in the hospital, he is still working to regain his strength.


The Globe reported in a recent interview, Ocker and Schlosser acknowledged significant cuts in services, such as the elimination of cataract surgery, and administrative problems, such as ordering a $1 million nuclear medicine camera but never installing it because it was too big for the examination room. As a result, the hospital stopped offering nuclear stress tests for heart disease risk and bone scans that can detect tumors this year.




Top officials at New Hampshire veterans hospital removed after Globe ‘Spotlight’ report
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Why use a bad example of government-run healthcare instead of a good one? Yes, the VA is awful, that is not indication that every healthcare system a government could manage would be awful.



Everything the Govt touches turns to crap. The Govt is incapable of running anything efficiently and under budget.

I am not sure of your age but I have been around long enough to understand the Govt is totaly corrupt.

How about you naming a large program the Govt runs efficiently and withinin budget.

We are a trillion dollars in debt.
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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You want Govt run healthcare the take a look at the VA. This story is from 6 days ago at New Hamshires only VA facilty.

Note:

I said properly funded.

The Republicans have be going after the VA for years.

It's a thing with them defund a public run program, then when it can't do it's job because it doesn't have the resources, complain that the government can't run it, then privatize it and make the Republican corporate overload a ton of money while they do and even worse job then the defunded program

















Top officials at New Hampshire veterans hospital removed after Globe ‘Spotlight’ report
 
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Erose

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You want to fix healthcare? Its easy quite frankly. 1) Repeal Obamacare; 2) remove the state border restrictions, so that an insurance company can sell insurance to whomever wants to buy it from and allow the consumer to buy insurance from whomever they want; and 3) lastly allow non-profit groups to represents its members, so that they can negotiate group rates for their members. Imagine if you gave groups such as the Knights of Columbus, Free Masons, NRA, AARP, even Churches, and whatever non-profit organization that can represent a group. What kind of group rate do you think that they could negotiate. Many organizations already offer some type of insurance(s) to its members, why not health insurance? Imagine if a Catholic Diocese or Arch-diocese was able to negotiate a health plan for their flock.

You want to take care of the un-insured? That is simple as well. Allow and encourage states to donate money to charity hospitals, expand the charity hospital network. Charities no matter what their stripe seem to be able to do a lot more on a shoestring budget that some comparable organization that is bloated with bureaucrats.

Also I think you are being short sighted if you don't take into account the failures of socialized medicine in this country. Not only the VA, but also the hospital network for the military is something else to look at as well. Neither of which I would trust my life to, unless I'm completely desperate.
 
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NewLove

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Do any of the world's countries with the best health metrics follow a plan similar to what you describe? It seems that one giant buyer should be able to negotiate better costs than dozens of small insurers, especially when that buyer is not for profit.

I can say that I was very impressed with the staff and state of medicine practiced at Bethesda. I was an observer though, not a patient.
 
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Cosmic Charlie

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You want to fix healthcare? Its easy quite frankly. 1) Repeal Obamacare; 2) remove the state border restrictions, so that an insurance company can sell insurance to whomever wants to buy it from and allow the consumer to buy insurance from whomever they want; and 3) lastly allow non-profit groups to represents its members, so that they can negotiate group rates for their members. Imagine if you gave groups such as the Knights of Columbus, Free Masons, NRA, AARP, even Churches, and whatever non-profit organization that can represent a group. What kind of group rate do you think that they could negotiate. Many organizations already offer some type of insurance(s) to its members, why not health insurance? Imagine if a Catholic Diocese or Arch-diocese was able to negotiate a health plan for their flock.

You want to take care of the un-insured? That is simple as well. Allow and encourage states to donate money to charity hospitals, expand the charity hospital network. Charities no matter what their stripe seem to be able to do a lot more on a shoestring budget that some comparable organization that is bloated with bureaucrats.

Also I think you are being short sighted if you don't take into account the failures of socialized medicine in this country. Not only the VA, but also the hospital network for the military is something else to look at as well. Neither of which I would trust my life to, unless I'm completely desperate.

You have absolutely, positively, no understanding of health insurance works nor any clue the the difference between health insurance and healthcare.

Not only are these solutions not nonsensical they don't even work on paper let alone irl
 
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Erose

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You have absolutely, positively, no understanding of health insurance works nor any clue the the difference between health insurance and healthcare.

Not only are these solutions not nonsensical they don't even work on paper let alone irl
That is coming from a view that the government can do everything better than the private sector. Anyway I disagree, with your assessment obviously. Your right healthcare and health insurance are two different things, and the Dems should have never viewed them as being one and the same, and this is why we have the mess we are now in. I didn't address healthcare in my post, but rather health insurance.

If we put competition back into health insurance that will force health insurance companies to compete against each other, which force them to supply more benefits at lower costs to compete in the market. Obamacare made health insurance companies more or less like monopolies with heavy restrictions on what they can and cannot provide customers. That was a horrible decision by the dems to go this route, but then again, I'm sure that got plenty of money for helping out the insurance companies, and sadly the Reps aren't much better it seems in this.

We need to through health insurance companies back in the free market and allow competition to force the to provide better services at a better price or go out of business.
 
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Erose

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Do any of the world's countries with the best health metrics follow a plan similar to what you describe? It seems that one giant buyer should be able to negotiate better costs than dozens of small insurers, especially when that buyer is not for profit.

I can say that I was very impressed with the staff and state of medicine practiced at Bethesda. I was an observer though, not a patient.
I do not know. But if you find one place that socialized healthcare works (which by the way is what we really have now here in the USA), it doesn't mean it will work here or anywhere else. The instances where fully socialized healthcare has been used here, i.e. the VA and the Military, those healthcare systems are no where near as good as commercial healthcare. I am a veteran, and I could use the VA if I wanted to, and even tried a few times, but I'm not using the VA until I absolutely have to.
 
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NewLove

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I do not know. But if you find one place that socialized healthcare works (which by the way is what we really have now here in the USA), it doesn't mean it will work here or anywhere else. The instances where fully socialized healthcare has been used here, i.e. the VA and the Military, those healthcare systems are no where near as good as commercial healthcare. I am a veteran, and I could use the VA if I wanted to, and even tried a few times, but I'm not using the VA until I absolutely have to.

Can you demonstrate that the problems with the VA are inherent to socialized medicine? You state that we have socialized medicine in the USA now and that you prefer it over the (also socialized) VA program. You extol the virtues of a market system, but you haven't addressed the inherent advantage that comes with owning the biggest effective insurer. The government would be in an ideal place to get the best possible cost for services due to sheer volume. Of course, the government often fails to do so and we get a poor return on our investments. Is it impossible, in your opinion, to appoint and or elect officials to manage such a program that will make it run efficiently, should we collectively decide to do so?
 
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Erose

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Can you demonstrate that the problems with the VA are inherent to socialized medicine?
No I cannot, for I don't have experience with purely socialized systems elsewhere. The VA program though will probably be what the American version would end up being.

You state that we have socialized medicine in the USA now and that you prefer it over the (also socialized) VA program.
I don't prefer either. I prefer my health insurance from 10 years ago, which was inexpensive and covered a whole lot more than it does now. Obamacare is IMO socialized medicine because even though the insurance companies are public companies that are heavily regulated by the government on what they can and cannot offer. Very similar to other government backed monopolies, except it doesn't regulate the rates that can be charged for services.

You extol the virtues of a market system, but you haven't addressed the inherent advantage that comes with owning the biggest effective insurer. The government would be in an ideal place to get the best possible cost for services due to sheer volume. Of course, the government often fails to do so and we get a poor return on our investments. Is it impossible, in your opinion, to appoint and or elect officials to manage such a program that will make it run efficiently, should we collectively decide to do so?
I think the there is a danger when the government begins to get into everything. I'm a guy who believes in freedom, and true freedom only comes when the government has a very limited influence in your life. Sadly in this country we have lost so many freedoms over the years, because of the trickle affect, to where I don't believe we are no longer free. Most of those freedoms have been taken away through inappropriate taxation, because of the very fact the government is into things it shouldn't be.
 
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NewLove

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No I cannot, for I don't have experience with purely socialized systems elsewhere. The VA program though will probably be what the American version would end up being.

I don't prefer either. I prefer my health insurance from 10 years ago, which was inexpensive and covered a whole lot more than it does now. Obamacare is IMO socialized medicine because even though the insurance companies are public companies that are heavily regulated by the government on what they can and cannot offer. Very similar to other government backed monopolies, except it doesn't regulate the rates that can be charged for services.

I think the there is a danger when the government begins to get into everything. I'm a guy who believes in freedom, and true freedom only comes when the government has a very limited influence in your life. Sadly in this country we have lost so many freedoms over the years, because of the trickle affect, to where I don't believe we are no longer free. Most of those freedoms have been taken away through inappropriate taxation, because of the very fact the government is into things it shouldn't be.

What are you no longer free to do? I've always been something of a free spirit and I haven't noticed a marked reduction in my freedom to do as I please in recent years. The Patriot Act's requirement for proof of where mortgage downpayment money comes from are the only things that come to mind that has ever bothered me.
 
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Erose

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What are you no longer free to do? I've always been something of a free spirit and I haven't noticed a marked reduction in my freedom to do as I please in recent years. The Patriot Act's requirement for proof of where mortgage downpayment money comes from are the only things that come to mind that has ever bothered me.
That is the point. It has happened so slowly most don't even realize it. Do you know that the Church teaches that having the ability to own private property is a right important to have a free society? Yet in most of the country local communities and states have put in place property taxes, where they tax you based upon how much property you owned. You think no big deal right? Just taxes right? Well what happens when you don't pay those taxes? What will eventually happen to that property? In most cases you will loose it right? Well if the government has the power to take away your private property, do you really truly own that property? The answer is no. No you don't.

Another example is the requirement in many communities to have to get a permit to build something on your own property? Or to modify your own house? Which is interpreted as you have to get permission from the true property owner to modify their property which you are paying for; and to add icing on the cake you have to pay them for the permission! Is that truly freedom?
 
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MoonlessNight

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Why use a bad example of government-run healthcare instead of a good one? Yes, the VA is awful, that is not indication that every healthcare system a government could manage would be awful.

You'll find pretty much every system works if you are just willing to ignore the times that it doesn't.
 
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NewLove

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That is the point. It has happened so slowly most don't even realize it. Do you know that the Church teaches that having the ability to own private property is a right important to have a free society? Yet in most of the country local communities and states have put in place property taxes, where they tax you based upon how much property you owned. You think no big deal right? Just taxes right? Well what happens when you don't pay those taxes? What will eventually happen to that property? In most cases you will loose it right? Well if the government has the power to take away your private property, do you really truly own that property? The answer is no. No you don't.

Another example is the requirement in many communities to have to get a permit to build something on your own property? Or to modify your own house? Which is interpreted as you have to get permission from the true property owner to modify their property which you are paying for; and to add icing on the cake you have to pay them for the permission! Is that truly freedom?

How do you propose local police, fire, school, etc services be funded?
 
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