DeSantis Campaign Merch: "Don't Fauci by Florida" t shirts

[Fantine]

Do candidates who support abortion pass your "good character" test?

De Santis doesn't. I evaluate each person individually.

This thread isn't about abortion. It is about living a pro-life lifestyle by taking a threat to all humankind respectfully and seriously, getting vaccinated, wearing masks if necessary, and promoting public health.

If you would like to discuss a pro-life pandemic response, please join us.

 

[probinson]

It is about living a pro-life lifestyle by taking a threat to all humankind respectfully and seriously, getting vaccinated, wearing masks if necessary, and promoting public health.

It's also about ignoring the cost of human life from the COVID mitigation measures. As just one example, 93,000 people died from drug overdoses last year, representing a 29% increase from 2019;

Lockdowns and other pandemic restrictions isolated those with drug addictions and made treatment harder to get, experts said.
93,000 people died of drug overdoses in U.S. during pandemic in 2020: "A staggering loss of human life" - CBS News​

Public health should care about all public health outcomes and not be myopically focused on COVID. This is just the start of the collateral damage that resulted from "public health" measures. It will likely take years to understand the immense toll of the lockdowns and other mitigation measures.

Sadly, many people won't even care about these lives, because they weren't COVID deaths. But a 29% increase in overdose deaths year over year ought to be concerning, and perhaps a trigger to take a moment of reflection to understand the unintended consequences of the myopic focus on COVID.

 

[Fantine]

And what eliminates the need for mitigation??

Universal vaccination.

I am glad you realize vaccination would help reduce drug related deaths by eliminating the need for mitigation.

You are beginning to see the picture.

 

[chevyontheriver]

De Santis doesn't.

Doesn't what? Pass your test, or not support abortion like the folks who pass your test?

I evaluate each person individually.

Looking for that little (r) to disqualify them?

This thread isn't about abortion. It is about living a pro-life lifestyle by taking a threat to all humankind respectfully and seriously, getting vaccinated, wearing masks if necessary, and promoting public health.

Fauciism is Fauci taking Fauci seriously. He's become big headed over the years and his head has become massively swollen in 2020. One can respect humanity and not be enthralled by Fauciism. Particularly the silly things he has said. Like how masks were not important until they became life and death. And now how three year olds should wear masks when it really just upsets them and they pretty much can't manage to wear them effectively. Or when the great Fauci doesn't even wear his face mask properly, using it as a chin protector. You have made Fauci into a god. He ain't one.

If you would like to discuss a pro-life pandemic response, please join us.

Was governor Cuomo's response to Covid which killed so many elderly people a pro-life response? Or just a bungling response? Or a way of thinning the elderly herd? I think Florida has had a far better outcome in protecting the elderly than New York has had. Functionally it has been more pro-life. And I would trust a pro-life person to look after all sorts of people better than an abortion supporter, who has already decided some lives are expendable, not worthy of concern. I ask myself who is capable of looking out for the little guy, someone who believes all human life has value or someone who has decided lots of human lives have no value? I'll go with De Santis over Cuomo every day on that.

 

[dqhall]

It's also about ignoring the cost of human life from the COVID mitigation measures. As just one example, 93,000 people died from drug overdoses last year, representing a 29% increase from 2019;

Lockdowns and other pandemic restrictions isolated those with drug addictions and made treatment harder to get, experts said.
93,000 people died of drug overdoses in U.S. during pandemic in 2020: "A staggering loss of human life" - CBS News​

Public health should care about all public health outcomes and not be myopically focused on COVID. This is just the start of the collateral damage that resulted from "public health" measures. It will likely take years to understand the immense toll of the lockdowns and other mitigation measures.

Sadly, many people won't even care about these lives, because they weren't COVID deaths. But a 29% increase in overdose deaths year over year ought to be concerning, and perhaps a trigger to take a moment of reflection to understand the unintended consequences of the myopic focus on COVID.

607,000 COVID deaths in the U.S. alone and people are trying to shut down vaccinations to kill more. God is watching you.

 

[probinson]

607,000 COVID deaths in the U.S. alone and people are trying to shut down vaccinations to kill more. God is watching you.

Who is trying to "shut down vaccinations"? What are you even talking about?

 

[probinson]

And what eliminates the need for mitigation??

You presume, incorrectly, that mitigation was successful. It was not.

And we knew it wouldn't work before the pandemic started. I posted on another thread the pandemic preparedness plans from the United States, the UK, Australia, the CDC and the WHO. All of these plans discussed things like masks, social distancing, forced quarantines, large event cancelations. When the pandemic hit, public health threw out the playbook. All of the years of science and data was tossed out the window in favor of the great lockdown experiment of 2020 with deadly repercussions. Instead of protecting our most vulnerable, we sent young college students home and locked them up with their older parents and grandparents. Instead of giving elderly people time off from work, we put them on the frontlines as "health ambassadors" at Walmart. Instead of judiciously segregating people in the nursing homes if they were infected, governors actually forced nursing homes to admit symptomatic, sick patients and wouldn't allow them to be tested and intermingled them with the most vulnerable of the pandemic. And these things all had deadly consequences. By abandoning established plans and panicking, public health did more damage than good.

Universal vaccination.

No.

Vaccination is a part of the equation, there is no doubt about that. The most vulnerable absolutely should be vaccinated. But because the risk to COVID is largely age-stratified, it is wise to recognize the risk level for each age. The risk for a healthy 18-year old is not the same as an 80-year old. Not even close.

The other part of the picture, which no one seems to want to talk about, is natural immunity. There is compelling evidence that prior infection confers at least as much immunity as the vaccine. The refusal to even talk about natural immunity from prior infection is a driver of vaccine hesitancy.

I realize that you are a mouthpiece for the propaganda and hang on every word Dr. Fauci speaks, but not everyone does. There are a whole world of epidemiologists, scientists and data analysts that are asking these questions. They deserve answers. Why the push to mask 2-year olds when there is absolutely no data that shows any benefit? Why the push to vaccinate 5-year olds when the risk of COVID to them is infinitesimal? Why force young, pregnant women and women trying to become pregnant to get vaccinated when there is no way to know (yet) if there is an impact to fertility from the vaccine?

Your inability to properly assess these risks causes you to look at only one risk factor (contracting COVID) and your penchant for severely overestimating that risk to most people causes you to downplay all other risk factors. Contrary to what you've been fed, not everyone who refuses the COVID vaccine is an anti-vaxxer. To the contrary, they are concerned about risks, as they should be. Pretending like there are no risks to vaccination is driving hesitancy. Truth and honesty is required in public health, and we don't have that.

 

[dqhall]

Who is trying to "shut down vaccinations"? What are you even talking about?

DeSantis stopped publishing statistics about Florida’s rising number of COVID infections and takes to attacking Fauci who has spent time educating the public about the severity of the disease and the need for people to get vaccinated. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. The red states lag the nation in getting vaccinated. This is causing loss of life, loss of time at work, increased hospitalizations and lower healthcare profits.

 

[probinson]

DeSantis stopped publishing statistics about Florida’s rising number of COVID infections

Which every state should do. We keep moving the goalposts. The metrics we should care about in the pandemic are severe disease, hospitalizations and deaths. Reporting number of cases is meaningless.

and takes to attacking Fauci who has spent time educating the public about the severity of the disease

If you credit Fauci for educating the public about the severity of the disease, then he has failed dismally, as this survey shows (emphasis added);

The U.S. public is also deeply misinformed about the severity of the virus for the average infected person. In December, we asked, “What percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?”

The correct answer is not precisely known, but it is highly likely to be between 1% and 5% according to the best available estimates, and it is unlikely to be much higher or lower. We discuss the data and logic behind this conclusion in the appendix.

Less than one in five U.S. adults (18%) give a correct answer of between 1 and 5%. Many adults (35%) say that at least half of infected people need hospitalization. If that were true, the millions of resulting patients would have overwhelmed hospitals throughout the pandemic.

Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to overestimate this harm. Forty-one percent of Democrats and 28% of Republicans answered that half or more of those infected by COVID-19 need to be hospitalized. Republicans were also far more likely to get the correct answer, with 26% correctly identifying the risk compared to just 10% of Democrats.

How misinformation is distorting COVID policies and behaviors​

Did you see that? Just 18% of US adults can correctly assess the risk of hospitalization from COVID. Only 10% of Democrats get the answer correct. Republicans are actually marginally better informed about the severity of the disease with 26% getting the answer correct. So you are mistaken when you say that the public understands the severity of the disease thanks to Dr. Fauci. To the contrary, they overestimate it quite drastically, and there is a political divide in that knowledge.

and the need for people to get vaccinated.

While ignoring natural immunity;

Earlier this month the World Health Organization released a scientific update stating that most people who have recovered from COVID-19 develop a strong protective immune response. Importantly, they summarize that within 4 weeks of infection, 90% to 99% of people who recover from COVID-19 develop detectable neutralizing antibodies. Furthermore, they conclude -- given the limited amount of time to observe cases -- that the immune response remains strong for at least 6 to 8 months after infection.

This update echoes what the NIH reported in January 2021: The immune response of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to 8 months after infection. The NIH went further to state that those findings "provide hope" that people who get vaccinated will develop similar lasting immunity.

So why are we so focused on vaccine-induced immunity -- in our goals to reach herd immunity, our gatekeeping on travel, public or private events, or mask use -- while ignoring natural immunity? Shouldn't those who have natural immunity also be able to return to "normal" activities?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/92836​

Have you ever heard Dr. Fauci talk about natural immunity in this pandemic? Why not?

The red states lag the nation in getting vaccinated.

You know the best way to increase vaccine uptake? Honesty. Truth. Proper risk assessment. Not, let's all get vaccinated now and sort it out later. Anything viewed to be "negative" about vaccines is to be immediately questioned and fact-checked. We may only sing the virtues of the vaccine. We may not acknowledge that there are risks, albeit quite small, from vaccination. We may not discuss the fact that COVID is less deadly for young, healthy people than the flu. All of these things will get you labeled a "denier", despite evidence and data that supports all of those conclusions.

 

[dqhall]

Which every state should do. We keep moving the goalposts. The metrics we should care about in the pandemic are severe disease, hospitalizations and deaths. Reporting number of cases is meaningless.



If you credit Fauci for educating the public about the severity of the disease, then he has failed dismally, as this poll shows (emphasis added);l

The U.S. public is also deeply misinformed about the severity of the virus for the average infected person. In December, we asked, “What percentage of people who have been infected by the coronavirus needed to be hospitalized?”

The correct answer is not precisely known, but it is highly likely to be between 1% and 5% according to the best available estimates, and it is unlikely to be much higher or lower. We discuss the data and logic behind this conclusion in the appendix.

Less than one in five U.S. adults (18%) give a correct answer of between 1 and 5%. Many adults (35%) say that at least half of infected people need hospitalization. If that were true, the millions of resulting patients would have overwhelmed hospitals throughout the pandemic.

Democrats are much more likely than Republicans to overestimate this harm. Forty-one percent of Democrats and 28% of Republicans answered that half or more of those infected by COVID-19 need to be hospitalized. Republicans were also far more likely to get the correct answer, with 26% correctly identifying the risk compared to just 10% of Democrats.

How misinformation is distorting COVID policies and behaviors​

Did you see that? Just 18% of US adults can correctly assess the risk of hospitalization from COVID. Only 10% of Democrats get the answer correct. Republicans are actually marginally better informed about the severity of the disease with 26% getting the answer correct. So you are mistaken when you say that the public understands the severity of the disease thanks to Dr. Fauci. To the contrary, they overestimate it quite drastically.


While ignoring natural immunity;

Earlier this month the World Health Organization released a scientific update stating that most people who have recovered from COVID-19 develop a strong protective immune response. Importantly, they summarize that within 4 weeks of infection, 90% to 99% of people who recover from COVID-19 develop detectable neutralizing antibodies. Furthermore, they conclude -- given the limited amount of time to observe cases -- that the immune response remains strong for at least 6 to 8 months after infection.

This update echoes what the NIH reported in January 2021: The immune response of more than 95% of people who recovered from COVID-19 had durable memories of the virus up to 8 months after infection. The NIH went further to state that those findings "provide hope" that people who get vaccinated will develop similar lasting immunity.

So why are we so focused on vaccine-induced immunity -- in our goals to reach herd immunity, our gatekeeping on travel, public or private events, or mask use -- while ignoring natural immunity? Shouldn't those who have natural immunity also be able to return to "normal" activities?

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/92836​

Have you ever heard Dr. Fauci talk about natural immunity in this pandemic? Why not?



You know the best way to increase vaccine uptake? Honesty. Truth. Proper risk assessment. Not, let's all get vaccinated now and sort it out later. Anything viewed to be "negative" about vaccines is to be immediately questioned and fact-checked. We may only sing the virtues of the vaccine. We may not acknowledge that there are risks, albeit quite small, from vaccination. We may not discuss the fact that COVID is less deadly for young, healthy people than the flu. All of these things will get you labeled a "denier", despite evidence and data that supports all of those conclusions.

If Republicans are so good at assessing the threat of COVID, why did Trump say COVID is a hoax of the Democrats?
Trump calls coronavirus Democrats' 'new hoax'

Why do red states lag the blue states in vaccinations?
Red states on U.S. electoral map lagging on vaccinations

Do Republicans have any idea of what COVID hospitalizations cost? The cost of a vaccination is free.
The average cost of hospital care for COVID-19 ranges from $51,000 to $78,000 based on age

Who will pay? Republican states are the poorest and fattest states.
Poorest and fattest states are Republican lead states - Need Help Paying Bills Blog

 

[probinson]

If Republicans are so good at assessing the threat of COVID, why did Trump say COVID is a hoax of the Democrats?
Trump calls coronavirus Democrats' 'new hoax'

Not sure I would call 26% of Republicans being able to correctly asses the risk of COVID as being "so good" at it. But it is better than only 10% of Democrats being able to assess it correctly. Overall, public health has done a poor job of accurately communicating the risk.

Why do red states lag the blue states in vaccinations?
Red states on U.S. electoral map lagging on vaccinations

I just gave you a laundry list of reasons there is vaccine hesitancy in my last post, but the core issue is a lack of trust in public health.

Do Republicans have any idea of what COVID hospitalizations cost? The cost of a vaccination is free.
The average cost of hospital care for COVID-19 ranges from $51,000 to $78,000 based on age

That seems more like an indictment of our healthcare system than anything else. And you are sadly misinformed if you think the vaccine is "free". Pfizer wouldn't be forecasting $26 BILLION of vaccine revenue if the vaccine was "free".

Who will pay? Republican states are the poorest and fattest states.
Poorest and fattest states are Republican lead states - Need Help Paying Bills Blog

My heart breaks for the insurance companies that will actually have to pay some money out rather than just taking my premiums every year for almost nothing in return.

 

[probinson]

In India, people resorted to selling their kidneys due to lost jobs from lockdowns.

High Debt, No Jobs Due To Lockdown Force Assam Villagers To Sell Kidneys

For reference, India currently has just over 5% of their population vaccinated. This while the US wastefully vaccinates 12-year olds at virtually no risk, and Pfizer toys with the idea of giving people a third shot (presumably because there is more money to be made in the US than India) before the most vulnerable people in India get even one dose;

If we accept boosters in the U.S. while the rest of the world remains unvaccinated, and if we authorize them based on inevitable improved laboratory titers without clinical outcomes, we run the risk of creating a medical industrial perpetual motion machine.

We will continue to breed new variants outside of our nation, which will lead to calls for yet more boosters, and we will continue to get new boosters without any evidence they are necessary (i.e., lower severe COVID-19 outcomes). Our arms will ache, our hearts will hurt, our wallets will be empty, and so too will our brains, as we will have abandoned all principles of evidence-based medicine.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/93565​

 

[dqhall]

Not sure I would call 26% of Republicans being able to correctly asses the risk of COVID as being "so good" at it. But it is better than only 10% of Democrats being able to assess it correctly. Overall, public health has done a poor job of accurately communicating the risk.


I just gave you a laundry list of reasons there is vaccine hesitancy in my last post, but the core issue is a lack of trust in public health.



That seems more like an indictment of our healthcare system than anything else. And you are sadly misinformed if you think the vaccine is "free". Pfizer wouldn't be forecasting $26 BILLION of vaccine revenue if the vaccine was "free".


My heart breaks for the insurance companies that will actually have to pay some money out rather than just taking my premiums every year for almost nothing in return.

The anti-vaccination movement is plaguing America. They have found a greater following in red states. I write this as blue states lead in the percent of adults vaccinated once or twice.

Governor DeSantis helped 65+ seniors in my county by setting up a field clinic for increased vaccinations. We have more seniors than most counties in the nation. I am 60-65 and got my two vaccinations at a Publix pharmacy.

Of course vaccinations are not free as the government had to pay. People can get them at a pharmacy without showing an insurance card or credit card.

Health insurance companies are not profiting by people refusing vaccinations then showing up at the ER when they have fever and difficulty breathing. It is not good for insurance companies or patients who have copays and in some cases organ damage, disability, or death. Not everyone is insured. The uninsured are denied intensive care. Medicare does not cover some procedures.

I do not pretend there are no problems with Democrats as I am suffering severe inflation, worse than has been seen in years. It is linked to sky high deficits and money printing. I suffer uncertainties whether one party or another is in power. I am uncertain of my investments, but bought a vacant lot in a poor neighborhood and put earnest money down on a second lot in a deed restricted community where they all have garages. I have a diversified portfolio with stocks and bonds too. I do not think Social Security and Medicare is a communist plot.

 

[probinson]

The anti-vaccination movement is plaguing America. They have found a greater following in red states. I write this as blue states lead in the percent of adults vaccinated once or twice.

Some of the reason uptake is slow is because of anti-vaxxers, but another big reason is because trust in public health is so low.

Governor DeSantis

Who is a "red" governor...

helped 65+ seniors in my county by setting up a field clinic for increased vaccinations. We have more seniors than most counties in the nation. I am 60-65 and got my two vaccinations at a Publix pharmacy.

DeSantis took quite a bit of heat for setting up those Publix vaccination clinics. 60 minutes did a hit piece on him back in April, deceptively editing a brief interaction with a reporter to push a faulty narrative. Which brings us to another point, distrust in the media (which is largely merited) is another reason there is slower vaccine uptake.

Of course vaccinations are not free as the government had to pay.

Perhaps you don't realize it, but the government has no money that they didn't take directly from you and me.

I do not pretend there are no problems with Democrats as I am suffering severe inflation, worse than has been seen in years. It is linked to sky high deficits and money printing. I suffer uncertainties whether one party or another is in power. I am uncertain of my investments, but bought a vacant lot in a poor neighborhood and put earnest money down on a second lot in a deed restricted community where they all have garages. I have a diversified portfolio with stocks and bonds too. I do not think Social Security and Medicare is a communist plot.

This post kind of went off the rails here, and there's a lot to unravel in that last statement. Suffice to say I'm not looking for the government or any political party to rescue me.

 

[probinson]

In this article, Dr. Marty Makary, Professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, opines that we are too worried about vaccinating all Americans while countless countries struggle to get their most vulnerable vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...icans-it-must-focus-world/?curator=MediaREDEF

 

[dqhall]

Some of the reason uptake is slow is because of anti-vaxxers, but another big reason is because trust in public health is so low.


Who is a "red" governor...

DeSantis took quite a bit of heat for setting up those Publix vaccination clinics. 60 minutes did a hit piece on him back in April, deceptively editing a brief interaction with a reporter to push a faulty narrative. Which brings us to another point, distrust in the media (which is largely merited) is another reason there is slower vaccine uptake.



Perhaps you don't realize it, but the government has no money that they didn't take directly from you and me.



This post kind of went off the rails here, and there's a lot to unravel in that last statement. Suffice to say I'm not looking for the government or any political party to rescue me.

He set up a vaccination clinic in Charlotte County:
DeSantis announces COVID-19 vaccination site in Charlotte County gated community

Some people were upset about how Publix was getting a contract to provide vaccinations, not upset by people getting vaccinated. Other companies wanted contracts, if I remember correctly. Publix is a supermarket with pharmacy. Later more companies were authorized to give immunizations too.

The government took in taxes and court fines. They borrowed by selling bonds. They printed currency or T-bonds and T-bills increasing M-2 money supply.

 

[probinson]

He set up a vaccination clinic in Charlotte County:
DeSantis announces COVID-19 vaccination site in Charlotte County gated community

Some people were upset about how Publix was getting a contract to provide vaccinations, not upset by people getting vaccinated.

Correct. The media tried to manufacture a scandal to attack DeSantis. It was exposed and fell flat since, thankfully, someone recorded and released the whole interaction DeSantis had with the reporter and not just the deceptively edited cut that 60 minutes chose to air.

 

[chevyontheriver]

In this article, Dr. Marty Makary, Professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, opines that we are too worried about vaccinating all Americans while countless countries struggle to get their most vulnerable vaccinated.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...icans-it-must-focus-world/?curator=MediaREDEF

If the Trump haters could only focus on getting vaccines to places like India instead of pressing their hate on anybody who for any reason is not yet vaccinated.

 

[Woollybear]

Florida Gov. DeSantis sells anti-Fauci merchandise as doctor draws Republican ire - The Washington Post

Would you vote for someone who sells merch that makes a joke out of 623,000 dead and 34 million who suffered with COVID (along with grieving families?)



He is apparently focused on winning the governor's race in 2022 (and beyond, who knows?)

He won the gubernatorial race in 2018 by a mere 4/10ths of 1%. I can't imagine how rudeness, crudeness, and making light of the grief and suffering of 34 million people would help him stay in office.

If a candidate doesn't pass my "good character" test, he's an automatic "no" with me.

I don't understand any of this. They are making fun of people trying to protect themselves. Are they trying to convince people that Covid is not real? Are they trying to kill off their supporters? None of this makes any sense to me.