Denominations or Demon Nations ?

[Open Heart]

The Papacy would need to be one of the first things to go away.

If you have a united worldwide christian church, don't you think it would help to have an administrative head?

 

[Open Heart]

I would, but I'm also a realist.

I know the Catholic church will not change it position on a great many things.

Did you ever think that in a million years the Catholic church and the Lutheran church would work out our differences on the Doctrine of Justification? And yet we did just that.

 

[DeaconDean]

Did you ever think that in a million years the Catholic church and the Lutheran church would work out our differences on the Doctrine of Justification? And yet we did just that.

That may be, but I do know that on the matter of "justification" alone, Calvinists, which make up a decent percentage of Presbyterians, and Baptists, it would continue to separate.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[bekkilyn]

If you have a united worldwide christian church, don't you think it would help to have an administrative head?

Yes, Jesus.

Jesus is the *only* head who is acceptable.

A worldwide church run by a sinful, created being (despite any claims to being like God himself or herself) would be heavily corrupted at best (as we've seen throughout much of Christian history), and at worst, anti-Christ, who promises peace but brings only chaos and deceit.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Did you ever think that in a million years the Catholic church and the Lutheran church would work out our differences on the Doctrine of Justification? And yet we did just that.

So? And what was the outcome? A lovefest which resulted in a lot of pleasant thoughts and words, but no action whatsoever. The Lutherans are just as separate from the Catholics as ever.

 

[bbbbbbb]

If you have a united worldwide christian church, don't you think it would help to have an administrative head?

I vote for Donald Trump. He's the man who gets things done.

 

[Open Heart]

I vote for Donald Trump. He's the man who gets things done.

Really? What has he gotten done? The wall? Repeal Obama care? Throw Hillary in jail? Re-establish talks in the Holy Lands? Travel ban? Create jobs for working class Americans? The people who voted for him have no legislation on the table. The Supreme Court tells him that he is acting unconstitutionally. Even his fellow Republicans dog his steps. The only thing he has managed to do is bring us to the brink of war with North Korea.

 

[Open Heart]

So? And what was the outcome? A lovefest which resulted in a lot of pleasant thoughts and words, but no action whatsoever. The Lutherans are just as separate from the Catholics as ever.

No we aren't at all. We have come to an agreement. The 500 year war is over. You really should read the document. It's so awesome that some people accuse us of lying rather than believe we have reached this accord.

 

[Open Heart]

Yes, Jesus.

Excuse me, but Jesus is not an administrative head. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. He is not here in the flesh. He is not here to sort out, i.e., the bickerings of Christians at a high level. That is the job of the Church.

 

[Open Heart]

That may be, but I do know that on the matter of "justification" alone, Calvinists, which make up a decent percentage of Presbyterians, and Baptists, it would continue to separate.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree that Calvinists will be a tough nut to crack. But I believe in the guidance of the HS.

 

[Open Heart]

Its what happens after that, that will forever separate us.

I on the other hand, have faith in the HS. Schism is sin. Therefore God's grace is sufficient to deliver us from sin, should we be willing.

 

[Open Heart]

Such is for that church to decide, but it is certain that no reconciliation (meaning organic unity) between the various denominations along with the RCC, will remain impossible so long as the Catholic Church holds to the doctrines it currently has as concerns the place and authority of the Papacy. Impossible.

The papacy is already being understood somewhat differently under Pope Francis. He is reintroducing a more collegial Church, as it was in the past. As I said, while the papacy would remain, it would most likely be understood quite differently.

 

[Albion]

We will all be dead before there is any significant reunion of the churches. That was my point there. Yes, Francis could effect some changes within his church, as happened with Vatican II a couple of generations ago, but that's a different thing.

 

[Open Heart]

We will all be dead before there is any significant reunion of the churches. That was my point there. Yes, Francis could effect some changes within his church, as happened with Vatican II a couple of generations ago, but that's a different thing.

You don't see the new collegiality as significant?

 

[Albion]

You are referring to the spirit of cooperation, etc. between churches, I take it. Yes, it probably is significant to some degree, but the talk had been about union, and that will take MUCH more than what we've seen so far. That goes for talks between branches of the same Protestant denominations, too, so imagine how difficult it really will be to bring any of the major Christian denominations into real organic reunion with each other. Plenty.

However, whenever there is something promising to point to, such as simply a joint statement on the meaning of the sacraments, people get excited and think merger is right around the corner. I have to say also that the heads of the respective church bodies, their spokesmen, and the clergy have a way of talking overly optimistically whenever this kind of thing occurs, so the laypersons' view is going to be affected by that.

 

[Radagast]

Did you ever think that in a million years the Catholic church and the Lutheran church would work out our differences on the Doctrine of Justification?

Parts of the Lutheran Church.

 

[Radagast]

I agree that Calvinists will be a tough nut to crack. But I believe in the guidance of the HS.

Ironically, the Calvinist view on Grace is almost identical to that of the Thomists.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Ironically, the Calvinist view on Grace is almost identical to that of the Thomists.

Not to mention that Calvinists are Augustinian in their soteriology. If, and when, the Catholic Church decides to return to their roots in monergism and it abandons synergism, there may be something to cheer about. But, as they say, that ain't going to happen.

 

[bekkilyn]

Excuse me, but Jesus is not an administrative head. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. He is not here in the flesh. He is not here to sort out, i.e., the bickerings of Christians at a high level. That is the job of the Church.

And yet Jesus is the only head of the universal church that most Christian denominations are going to accept. We don't need to bicker if we simply celebrate our diversity rather than fight each other over it.

 

[Open Heart]

And yet Jesus is the only head of the universal church that most Christian denominations are going to accept. We don't need to bicker if we simply celebrate our diversity rather than fight each other over it.

Celebrating your bickering is contrary to Paul's teaching.