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Featured Denominations or Demon Nations ?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by JESUSKiDtommy, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

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    Since we know that the reason there are so many different denominations is because people view the BIBLE so differently. I would hope that everyone reading this could agree that the TRUTH in GODS WORD should not be relative to how any particular person wants to view it.

    I would also hope that everyone can agree that the very word ( deceived ) means that a person does not know they are wrong.

    It is a bit odd that the cause of original trouble was picking fruit to make wise, and today just look at all the debates we have over what people believe to be True about the BIBLE.

    I also believe that if JESUS could come and sit down with any of us and talk to us one on one HE would be telling us how important HIS base teachings are. I think that when HE tells us what the two greatest commands are..... that if we as HIS people grasp hold of that and actually start treating other people in the way we would want to be treated if we were them, then there might be a chance of a great revival being born from self sacrificing LOVE that was at least a bit willing to be uncomfortable for the sake of another person.

    I believe that the minds of human beings do not ( FIGURE OUT TRUTH ) but that TRUTH is revealed by GOD through HIS HOLY LOVE FOR ALL PEOPLE BEING A REAL AND ACTIVE PART OF OUR LIVES, without the silly human pride of us thinking ourselves pretty good Christians.

    I believe that rightly dividing the WORD is to know and recognize any passage of SCRIPTURE that is directly related or remotely tied to the base teachings of CHRIST and that giving those passages more attention is not only allowed by GOD, but it is what HE wants us to do with HIS BOOK.

    The theologies of mens minds that have resulted in these demon nations is what blinds us from seeing the TRUTH of GODS WORD. We plainly read that LOVE is greatest, and we see JESUS telling us that when we do some kind and caring act for the least of these around us that it is like us doing it directly for HIM. Yet we would rather study to find some stumbling blocks and spend our lives tripping over them instead of growing in the LOVE OF CHRIST.

    Galatians chapter five verses fourteen and fifteen....

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    WHY are those two verses paired that way? WHY a reminder of the second greatest command just before a warning to us about our debates?

    It's because nothing at all matters in comparison to CHRIST LIKE LOVE being real in our hearts, and we can't receive anything from GOD when we think we already have everything we need sown into the doctrines of our denominations...... and not only that, but when we include side items from the WORD OF GOD that are not directly grounded upon the teachings of JESUS we taint the GOSPEL that HE gave us, by trying to add to it.

    Nobody reading this can say that the very best that any of us can do would not be to live a life filled with CHRIST LIKE LOVE..... so why are we not pursuing HIM?
     
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  2. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Denominations are different facets of the same jewel of salvation by grace through faith. It doesn't matter if someone comes to faith in Jesus as a Southern Baptist or an Episcopalian or some other denomination or non-denomination. People are all different and God speaks to different people in different ways. The main point is that they *do* find that faith through Jesus, and the variety of denominations can help people do just that.
     
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  3. One Of The Elect

    One Of The Elect Member

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    I agree The WORD OF GOD is not a denomination nor is the Body of Christ. Truth is not as one makes it, or as one sees it, it is just SO! It is irrefutable, undeniable, factually exact. It is real, perfectly sound and loved by those who seek it.
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,913
    Anabaptist
    Perhaps paraphrased,
    remember God's Word: "OPEN REBUKE" (public chastisement/ correction) (debate?)
    is "BETTER than HIDDEN (quiet, unseen, unreal) LOVE" ....

    Whoever loves their children corrects them.

    Correction withint the body of Christ is practiced by JESUS, the Apostles, the disciples, all through Scripture and is needed as directed by HIM.

    Out in the world, like in Athens, in the NT,
    out in the world requires different approaches, yet always and also as directed by HIM (HIS WORD).
     
  5. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

    132
    +42
    Christian
    So you think division is good when JESUS says a house divided can't stand? What if we were able to drop every denomination and come together a the LOVING BODY OF CHRIST ... a vast group of people given to self sacrificing LOVE for all people.... It would seem that if that happened there would be no need for the word hypocrite anymore .... and how many atheist might turn to JESUS if they saw HIM real within the lives of us who say we are HIS? ... How many homeless that would like to have a home could get housing? ( all provided we were seeking and walking in HIS LOVE as HE has directed us to ) ... That is my point... our doctrinal beliefs take away from what we should be. ( and we think ourselves ok)
     
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,913
    Anabaptist
    Good Goal. Keep Looking for Such People - They(We) are out there - as described in Scripture : Malachi, Philippians, Revelation wherever two or three (that's all it takes) are gathered together talking about ME(YAHWEH), I (YAHWEH) keep a record of all their words (A Permanent Record);
    and as Jesus Says wherever 2 or 3 are gathered together in MY NAME(JESUS), there AM I in their midst. (HE TRULY IS THERE/ where HE SAYS, not in buildings made with human hands, but in the TEMPLE/ fellowship/ of circumcized hearts/ made without hands)
     
  7. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,913
    Anabaptist
    oh, just noticed following up reading the rest of the post.

    Those beliefs do not take away from what we should be when we turn to YHWH to be cleansed of all that is not of HIM. (i.e. when MY people, who are called by MY NAME, turn to ME (repent), I WILL HEAR THEM) (and HEAL THEM)
     
  8. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Think of the churches of the New Testament as ministered to by Paul ... all different in some ways (i.e. Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Thessalonika, Philippi, etc.). Also the church to whom Christ directed letters in Revelation (i.e Ephesus, Sardis, Laodoceia, Philadelphia, etc.). Again, all churches of Christ (some more successful, some less) ... and all different in some ways. It is the nature of people.

    Paul, Himself, contended with the issue of such differences ...

    Philippians 1

    15 It’s true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry. But others preach about Christ with pure motives. 16 They preach because they love me, for they know I have been appointed to defend the Good News. 17 Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me. 18 But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.

    However, I agree with your post's overall theme that LOVE is the key ... and the distinguishing characteristic of all who truly follow Him.

    Jesus affirmed that to His disciples ...

    John 13

    34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
     
  9. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    Denominations are not divisions. We are all one church through faith in Christ. We are all members of the same Body of Christ. But if all of the members of the Body were toes, then the Body would be unable to function, so it's good that some of us are toes and some of us are fingers and some of us are blood vessels, etc.

    An Atheist who was unable to connect to faith in Jesus through the Lutheran denomination may be able to connect through being a Presbyterian. Had only Lutherans existed, then the Atheist would still be lost.
     
  10. Saucy

    Saucy Fear is faith in the enemy. Supporter

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    I don't personally like seeing division in the church, but at the same time, I completely understand that we are all part of the body of Christ. That means some are the hands and others are the feet. Most of us push forward the gospel in our own unique ways.

    Some people might hate that churches have worship music and say we should only use hymns. Others say those old fashioned churches need to get with the times. More might say that the fact that Christian rock music exists is glorifying the devil! But really...when you break it all down...we're all Christians who love different types of music and relate to each type. Different churches exist to help spread the gospel in different and unique ways.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Christian rock music has inspired many to come to Christ. Some churches have a focus on the homeless, while others have a heavy focus on children's ministry. Some focus on missionary work.

    Even the disciples quibbled over differences in ideas and thoughts. They all had different backgrounds, different strengths, and different weaknesses. But they all came together for the greater good of the gospel. In the end, that's what we still do.
     
  11. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yup ... Jesus had 12 different Apostles for a reason ....
     
  12. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    "I believe that the minds of human beings do not ( FIGURE OUT TRUTH ) but that TRUTH is revealed by GOD through HIS HOLY LOVE FOR ALL PEOPLE BEING A REAL AND ACTIVE PART OF OUR LIVES, without the silly human pride of us thinking ourselves pretty good Christians."

    The problem with this statement is that it denies the reality of a Church that God works through to correct others. In essence, don't trust other people but always trust your inner voice, which is contrary to every precedent, scriptural or traditional within Christendom. You accuse others of having a theology of man as if you are somehow special in apprehending the truth no one else till now has understood. To suggest this is to believe God has been inactive till your arrival.
     
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  13. kepha31

    kepha31 Regular Member

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    When the Bible is ripped from the Tradition and Teaching Authority that it flows from, it's reduced to a check-opinion manual.
     
  14. DeaconDean

    DeaconDean γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

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    From a historical record, even from the scriptures, there was a need to "separate" some "Christians".

    Up to some 7 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, there was still a conflict in the primitive church regarding the Law.

    That was the primary reason for the First Apostolic Council. (cf Acts 15)

    Here are the facts from history:

    "The Primitive Community

    Up to this point, we have shown the development of the Greek word “nomoV” from a meaning of “to allot” to “Law.” We have seen how the commandments were handed down to Moses from God and were regarded as the Law. We have the view of the Law in the Synoptics and the interrelation of Jesus’ negation and affirmation of the Law and how they are interwoven so that it actually restores and establishes the intent of God in His revealed will.

    Now we come to a most difficult area which brought conflict nearly two millennia ago, and one which still brings conflict today. The conflict concerning the Law and its relevance to Christians then and now. There is no clear cut definitive picture of just what the understanding of the Law was in the primitive community. But it is a certainty that they did in fact keep the Law, but as to the extent of the keeping of the Law it is not certain from the account in Acts because no distinctive can be discerned in this record. So what we can do, however, is to look at what records we do have concerning the conflict which are found in the book of Galatians and in Acts 15.

    The question of the Law first became an issue when the Apostles began their missionary journeys. When they moved out to the Gentile world, more specifically the Gentile nations, there was so much conflict that the first Apostolic Council is recorded. With regards to this meeting, and the decision they came to, we can work best work out what the fundamental understanding of the Law was in the primitive community.

    A problem that had existed from the Day of Pentecost was how to integrate Gentile believers into the church. Apparently, Paul taught his Gentile converts that they did not need to submit to the Law in order to be members in good standing, a point which not all agreed on. Paul’s first missionary journey took him from Jerusalem to Antioch to Galatia and back to Jerusalem which led to the first Apostolic Council meeting. As in Paul’s day, there were a group of people who are commonly called “legalists.” Of whom believed that not only was a belief in God required, but also a strict observance to the Law of Moses was required.

    According to Gal. 2, the data relevant to the council are as follows: first, agreement between Paul’s gospel and that preached by the primitive community is confirmed and not just established. Gal. 2:2: “aneqemhn autoiV to euaggelion o khrussw en toiV eqnesin” (I put before them the gospel which I proclaim in the nations) Vs.6: “emoi oi dokounteV ouden prosaneqento” (to me, for those conferred nothing) Note in the KJV, the translators added the word “important” thus the italics, to emphasize Paul was referring to the Apostolic council.

    The second point is equally certain, namely, that practical questions over and above the unanimity of principle was not so fully cleared up as to make impossible the dispute at Antioch as Paul describes it in Galatians 2. To understand this passage it should be noted that neither directly nor indirectly does Paul have any word of censure from James. The concrete question is whether and how far those born Jew may live together in fellowship with Gentile Christians who do not keep the Law. In particular, can they have fellowship with them at table and in the Lord’s Supper? For if they do, they necessarily surrender essential parts of the strict observance of the Law. The measure of clarity reached thus far was simply that purely Gentile Christian churches were free from the Law with the consent of the primitive community, and purely Jewish Christian churches should keep the Law with the consent of Paul.

    The findings of the Apostolic Council, then, are that the Law is not to be kept as though one could be righteous by its observance, that faith in Jesus brings salvation to both Jew and Gentile alike, and that the Law is still binding on Jews. On this basis, it seems that the separation of Gentile and Jewish evangelization (Gal. 2:7) had to be accepted by both Paul and the primitive as necessary and appropriate.

    c. But this raises the question of why Jewish Christians were obliged to keep the Law. The main reason is concern for the possibility of the Jewish mission. The preaching of Jesus as the Christ of scripture could not be believed by Jews if His followers left the Law of God. That Paul could agree with this view is shown beyond any question in 1 Cor. 9:20. He neither demands nor makes any demonstration of his freedom from the Law which might consist in transgression of the Law.

    d. From the basic and practical decision of the primitive community in these matters we may work out its understanding of the Law during the preceding period. The actual commitment to the Law was not monism in the sense that fulfillment of the Law w regarded as a presupposition of belonging to the Messianic kingdom. On the contrary, it regarded observance of the Law as the obedience concretely required of it as this people - an obedience which it had also to render for loves sake in the service of the Gospel. What constituted the community and separated it from others, however, was not a specific understanding of the Law but faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ. Historically speaking, it is probable that the Synoptic accounts of Jesus’ attitude to the Law are correct and that fundamentally the primitive community took its attitude to the Law from Jesus Himself.

    e. Further developments in the primitive community is also to be understood in light of the conflicts, motives, and decisions brought to light in the first Apostolic Council and the events relating to it. The radical party, traditionally called the Judaizers, insisted that in spite of the councils decision, circumcision and the Law must be laid on Gentile Christians, since otherwise they could not enjoy salvation or belong to the community of Christ. They evidently propagated this view with zeal, especially in the Pauline churches, though it is open to question whether the situation presupposed in Rome can be explained by Judaising propaganda.

    f. Distinct from the position of the Judaizers is that of James, Peter, and the community controlled by them, who seem to have kept essentially to the lines laid down by the Apostolic Council. This certainly corresponds to the depiction of James in Acts 21:14, and it is confirmed by the account of his death in Josephus.[9] In regards to Peter, it is best to assume that he returned to the position of the Apostolic Council and James after accepting the view of Paul for a period in Antioch. Certainly the attempt to make Peter a champion of the Judaizers lacks enough exegetical support in the available sources and it suffers from intrinsic improbability.

    As concerning the understanding of the Law in normative circles of primitive Christianity, it may thus be said that they regarded the Law as the obedience to be rendered by Jewish Christians. They were also conscious of being under this obligation for the sake of winning the Jewish world for the Gospel. They did not believe that by achieving this obedience man could attain to righteousness before God. They were prepared to extend brotherly fellowship to Gentile Christians even though the latter did not keep the Law. In mixed congregations, Gentile Christians were obliged to observe such points as would make fellowship of Jewish Christians with them defensible in the eyes of the Jewish world.

    From my paper: "The Law and the Christian, A Modern Day Look at Legalism"

    The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Gerhard Kittle, Editor; Translated By: Geoffery W, Bromiley, Hendrickson Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, Mi. Copyright 1962, Vol. V, nemos, pp.1022-1065

    [1] Adolph von Harnack, Beitrage zur Einlertung in das NT, II: “Sprucle u. Reder Jesu” (1907), 11f.

    [2] T. Zahn, Kommentar z. Matthausev, 1905

    [3] A. Schlatter, Kommentar z. Mk., 1930

    [4] For further information on this subject, see the article by Roy l. Aldrich, “Causes for Confusion of Law and Grace,” Bibliotheca Sacra, 116:463:221-29, July 1959

    [5] G. Coleman Luck, “Christian Ethics,” Bibliotheca Sacra, 118:471 - July 1961, Theological Electronic Library, Galaxie Software

    [6] The verb “train” or “instruct” is paideuo,,,” to bring up, instruct, educate, train,” then, “correct, practice, discipline, give guidance.”

    [7] Charles C. Ryrie, The Grace of God, Moody Press, Chicago, 1963, pp. 51-52

    [8] In this clause, “but” is alla, a conjunction that expresses strong contrast.

    [9] Josephus, Ant., 20, 200

    We are able to discern from history and from the ruling from the First Apostolic Council, there were two(2) "denominations" in the Primitive Church. One comprised of Jews turned Christian who observed some of the "Law" i.e.: circumcision; and one (1) comprised of Gentile "Christians" which were told that only a "limited" portion of the Law applied to them i.e: abstaining from blood. And then, when special circumstances arose that required both groups to be together, how best to integrate them together.


    So like I said, as early as AD 40, there were already at least two (2) "denominations".

    God Bless

    Till all are one.
     
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  15. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

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    It's not hard to find Christians who LOVE other Christians, but what reward is there in that?

    From what i believe GOD has taught me, i wonder what business we as humans have in making the determinations about other peoples lives and exactly what GOD may do with them. In other words i see everyone as in the same boat and in need of CHRIST and don't draw lines of who is or is not headed to Heaven. ( This is just how i believe GOD has taught me ) .... i see many stumbling blocks within the WORD that people cut themselves on because we don't tend to believe that the conclusion of the whole matter is to fear GOD and keep HIS commands. Rather we dig and study and think we understand HIS ways without that LOVE i speak of being in it's proper place of importance in our lives.

    i have recently found out something else too... i have my limits on what i am willing to do for any given person..... have always been a person with a lot of compassion... but lately have had circumstances that show me just how far from JESUS i really am, when it comes to LOVING as HE LOVES. ..... Please pray for me...... Thank You
     
  16. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

    132
    +42
    Christian
    i am pretty sure a portion of what needs to be repented from is mixing in all our man made traditions as if they were the TRUTH OF GOD.
     
  17. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

    132
    +42
    Christian
    i have apprehended the TRUTH ... Nothing greater that any of us can do than to give the two greatest commands their proper place. All you need do is look at the Church in the book of Acts where people had LOVE based communism and then look at the rest of the Churches where people started coming up with all the stuff Paul tried to correct... Do you think it got better as time went on?
     
  18. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

    132
    +42
    Christian
    And i still think the atheist would have their best chances of coming to faith if there was one body that was so filled with self sacrificing LOVE that we put ourselves aside for the sake of others.... CHRIST LIKE LOVE ... The atheist would have a hard time denying the existence of a GOD who's very SPIRIT was alive and at work within HIS people.... and i am not saying there are no good people... but we certainly are not selling lands and belongings and deminishing our own level of comfort for the sake of those who are hungry in this world.

    Do you see what i am saying? ... We simply need to LOVE MORE... and we have to seek GOD one on one for HIM to give us that kind of LOVE. It's not a natural human LOVE but a level of compassion akin to that of our FATHER who left HIS comfort to suffer for us... We are to be growing toward having deeper kinship with HIM, and all i am saying is that some theological ideas prohibit our seeking because we use them to feel ( so ok ) with GOD.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,913
    Anabaptist
    Keep looking (seek, and keep seeking), and you will find those who do.
    Don't give up.
    Continue doing what you know is right all the time, while seeking others who follow Jesus also.
     
  20. JESUSKiDtommy

    JESUSKiDtommy GODLY LOVE for others is so important

    132
    +42
    Christian
    If you read Matthew chapter 25 where JESUS is talking about the characteristics of a sheep, and those of a goat... it's pretty clear that sheep CARE about people with needs.

    i picked up a 69 year old Vietnam vet on a busy freeway who was so grateful for the ride, said he had walked for two solid days without anyone stopping to help him.... Now i know people are scared... but how many pewsitters do you suppose drove past this fellow without even praying for him to get a ride? There is no fear within the hearts of people who claim CHRIST ... No respect that we should at least be seeking HIM for LOVE to overcome our fears, and be able to help people as HE directs us to.... HIS example of the sheep is the only outright example of who gets into Heaven... and it doesn't look like many will go.
     
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