Denominations and soul sleep

[LoveGodsWord]

it is the belief that when a person dies, they are unconscious and unaware of what is going in the universe. their soul goes to a place of Darkness and is dormant. It is the Jewish view of death.

SDA's and JW have a modified view of this, they believe you are unconscious, but do not have a soul you are one, as such when you die the soul (person) goes down to the grave, dust to dust, and waits for the resurrection.

SDA'S do not believe in "Soul sleep" we believe in the "State of the dead" being death until the resurrection being referred to as a "sleep" waiting for resurrection. The term "Soul sleep" is that the soul is living after death which we believe is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. We do not have the same view on this as the JW's that I am aware of.

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am pretty sure JW use the same term “soul sleep” but applies it to a different meaning.

My friend @LoveGodsWord outlined very clearly with scripture what happens when you die so I am going to repeat it for reference:

THE TRUTH ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD - WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?

Hi all hope for a friendly discussion please based on the scriptures.

I see that there seems to be some confusion on what the scriptures actually teach on what happens when we die. So what is the state of the dead? Do we remain dead until the second coming where there the the scriptures teach those who have died in Christ will be resurrected? Or do we go to heaven when we die? These of course are contradictions in themselves.

According to the scriptures death is referred to by Jesus as a sleep which is a metaphor for death that we awake from at the second coming's resurrection. So what does the bible teach on the state of the dead? I will post some of the scriptures on what I believe happens when we die and we can investigate all of the other scriptures on what others might think it means (hoping for friendly discussion please)

WHAT DOES JESUS SAY ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD OR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE?

JOHN 11:11-13 11, These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, OUR FRIEND LAZARUS SLEEPS; BUT I GO, THAT I MAY AWAKE HIM OUT OF SLEEP. 12, Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13, HOWBEIT JESUS SPAKE OF HIS DEATH: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14, Then said JESUS UNTO THEM PLAINLY, LAZARUS IS DEAD.

Jesus says that death is like a sleep and a metaphor for death we wake up out from when he resurrects us. This is a key scripture here so I separated this scripture from all the scriptures provided below from the old and new testaments that describe what happens when we die...

(Note: I might ask some questions here but I am not going to provide the answers on purpose here because it is best if you can prayerfully ask God and see the answers in the scriptures provided for yourself)...

Here is a list of a lot of scriptures you may want to investigate on the topic of the state of the dead or soul sleep or what happens when we die according to the scriptures if your interested and have some time if this topic is new to you...

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ON WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE?
(you find the answers prayerfully from the scriptures below)

Death is referred to as a sleep which is a metaphor for death in scripture...

A.: [To be dead or in death is referred to as a sleep, asleep, sleepeth]Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead/asleep] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40

The dead do not know anything in sleep until Jesus returns...

B.: [The dead knowing nothing] Genesis 27:4, 45:28; Ruth 1:17; Job 3:17-19, 7:8-10, 14:21, 21:32; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chronicles 34:28; Psalms 6:5, 28:1, 31:17, 88:4,10,11, 115:17, 143:7, 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:4,5,6,10; Isaiah 14:11, 38:18; [reserved] 2 Peter 2:9; [He goes to prepare a place, so that when He comes again, 2nd Advent, He will raise us and receive us] John 14:2-3

When we die we go to the grave...

C.: [The dead are in the grave/s], sepulchre/s, tomb/s, pit/s, hell [ie Hb: sheol; Gr: hades; grave]]Genesis 23:6, 35:20, 37:35, 44:29,31, 50:5; Exodus 14:11; Numbers 16:30, 19:16,18; Deuteronomy 34:6; Judges 8:32, 1 Samuel 2:6, 10:2; 2 Samuel 3:32, 4:10, 17:23, 19:37, 21:14, 22:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9, 13:22,30,31, 14:13; 2 Kings 9:28, 13:21, 21:26, 22:20, 23:6,16,17,30; 2 Chronicles 16:14, 21:20, 24:25, 28:27, 32:33, 34:4,28, 35:24; Nehemiah 2:3,5, 3:16; Job 3:17-19,22, 5:26, 7:8-10, 10:19, 11:8, 14:12-14,21, 17:1,13,16, 21:13,23-32, 24:19, 26:6, 30:24, 33:22; Psalms 5:9, 6:5, 18:5, 28:1, 30:3, 31:17, 35:7, 49:14,15, 55:15, 86:13, 88:3,4,5-12, 89:48, 94:13, 115:17, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7, 143:7; Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 6:6, 9:10; Song of Songs [Solomon] 8:6; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9,11,15,19, 22:16, 28:15,18, 38:10,18, 53:9, 57:9, 65:4; Jeremiah 5:16, 8:1, 26:23, 20:17; Ezekiel 26:20, 31:15-17, 32:18,21-27, 37:12,13, 39:11; Hosea 13:14; Amos 9:2; Jonah 2:2 [<- figurative, typological]; Nahum 1:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Matthew 8:8, 11:23, 23:27,29, 27:52,53,60,61,64,66, 28:8; Mark 5:2,3,5, 6:29, 15:46, 16:2,3,5,8; Luke 8:27, 10:15, 11:47,48, 23:53,55, 24:1,2,9,12,22,24; John 5:28, 11:31,38, 12:17, 19:41,42, 20:1-4,6,8,11; Acts 2:29,34, 7:16, 13:29,36; Romans 3:13; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18, 11:9, 20:13,14

Righteous and dead in Christ are raised to life at the second coming...

D.: [Those in Christ resurrected from the grave/death/sleep at the second coming]1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 1 Corinthians 15:50-55; Philippians 3:10-11; Danial 12:2

Wicked resurrected to the 2nd death...

E.: [2nd death from which there is no life, nor resurrection, nor return - annihilation] Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8

The wicked in the second death are destroyed and forever...

F.: [sin/sinners gone forever, cut off, perished, no more, destroyed, passed away, etc] Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 7:17, 20:9, 21:4
John 3:16 says Perish or Everlasting Life [the wicked receive no such gift as everlasting life [there are no immortalized wicked anywhere and never will be], it is only a gift to the saved/just/righteous].

Additionally, it is the righteous who will dwell with everlasting burnings (Isaiah 33:14), for God is a consuming fire [to sin and of Love] (Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29) and His ministers a flame of fire (Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7) and His Throne of Fire (Daniel 7:9; Revelation 4:5) and His speech fire (2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8) for He is a purifying fire (Malachi 3:3) and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire (Revelation 15:2), and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed (Exodus 3:3), not the wicked [they are burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished.

..................

Why you might be asking is the above topic important to understand? Well it is very important as it leads into a correct understanding of the resurrection and God's judgement and what happens at the second coming as well as prepares us to be ready to avoid the great deceptions from Satan that will happen just prior to when Jesus returns so we can be prepared to meet Jesus and remain faithful to the end. The doctrine of purgatory, eternal burning Hell or heaven once we die is a false teaching that has led many away from the scriptures to the teachings of men that is not biblical.

God bless...

Thanks for posting these scriptures sis. Can you post the link to the main thread in case others might want to know what we believe from the scriptures?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

SDA'S do not believe in "Soul sleep" we believe in the "State of the dead" being death until the resurrection being referred to as a "sleep" waiting for resurrection. The term "Soul sleep" is that the soul is living after death which we believe is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. We do not have the same view on this as the JW's that I am aware of.

Take Care.

that is what I said. Soul Slee dose not teach the soul is 'living" that is your misunderstanding. Soul sleep teaches that the Soul exist after death in an unconscious state. you are confusing the fact that the soul exist with weather it is conscious.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Thanks for posting these scriptures sis. Can you post the link to the main thread in case others might want to know what we believe from the scriptures?

Hey try reading All the scripture, not just the ones that go the way you like.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

likes

 

[LoveGodsWord]

that is what I said. Soul Slee dose not teach the soul is 'living" that is your misunderstanding. Soul sleep teaches that the Soul exist after death in an unconscious state. you are confusing the fact that the soul exist with weather it is conscious.

I read your post perfectly. We do not teach "Soul Sleep" and we have nothing in common with JW's and yes the request for the linked posts provides all the scriptures and arguments on the topic and subject matter. The post that @SabbathBlessings provided was only one post of scriptures of many.

Take Care.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Sheol & Hades are not the grave. it is a place of Darkness, a holding cell a jail. Jude 1:6, And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

6And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. 7In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.8Yet in the same way these dreamers defile their bodies, reject authority, and slander glorious beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, did not presume to bring a slanderous charge against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”b 10These men, however, slander what they do not understand, and like irrational animals, they will be destroyed by the things they do instinctively. 11Woe to them! They have traveled the path of Cain; they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam; they have perished in Korah’s rebellion.12These men are hidden reefsc in your love feasts, shamelessly feasting with you but shepherding only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried along by the wind; fruitless trees in autumn, twice dead after being uprooted. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them:

“Behold, the Lord is coming
with myriads of His holy ones15to execute judgment on everyone,
and to convict all the ungodly
of every ungodly act of wickedness

and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.”d16These men are discontented grumblers, following after their own lusts; their mouths spew arrogance; they flatter others for their own advantage.

Matt 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Isa 10:18 Body & Soul of warriors destroyed.

1 Thess 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

3 parts to a person

A person can be cast into outer Darkness.Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30

Texts on Outer Darkness 13 Bible verses about The Outer Darkness

Like these texts? What do you do with these. oh right you ignore them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

icedragon101 said: ↑ Sheol & Hades are not the grave. it is a place of Darkness, a holding cell a jail. Sheol & Hades are not the grave. it is a place of Darkness, a holding cell a jail. Jude 1:6, And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

6And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. 7In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.8Yet in the same way these dreamers defile their bodies, reject authority, and slander glorious beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, did not presume to bring a slanderous charge against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”b 10These men, however, slander what they do not understand, and like irrational animals, they will be destroyed by the things they do instinctively. 11Woe to them! They have traveled the path of Cain; they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam; they have perished in Korah’s rebellion.12These men are hidden reefsc in your love feasts, shamelessly feasting with you but shepherding only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried along by the wind; fruitless trees in autumn, twice dead after being uprooted. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them:

“Behold, the Lord is coming
with myriads of His holy ones15to execute judgment on everyone,
and to convict all the ungodly
of every ungodly act of wickedness

and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.”d16These men are discontented grumblers, following after their own lusts; their mouths spew arrogance; they flatter others for their own advantage.

According to the scriptures, the dead are in the grave/s, sepulchre/s, tomb/s, pit/s, hell [ie Hb: sheol; Gr: hades; grave]

[Genesis 23:6, 35:20, 37:35, 44:29,31, 50:5; Exodus 14:11; Numbers 16:30, 19:16,18; Deuteronomy 34:6; Judges 8:32, 1 Samuel 2:6, 10:2; 2 Samuel 3:32, 4:10, 17:23, 19:37, 21:14, 22:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9, 13:22,30,31, 14:13; 2 Kings 9:28, 13:21, 21:26, 22:20, 23:6,16,17,30; 2 Chronicles 16:14, 21:20, 24:25, 28:27, 32:33, 34:4,28, 35:24; Nehemiah 2:3,5, 3:16; Job 3:17-19,22, 5:26, 7:8-10, 10:19, 11:8, 14:12-14,21, 17:1,13,16, 21:13,23-32, 24:19, 26:6, 30:24, 33:22; Psalms 5:9, 6:5, 18:5, 28:1, 30:3, 31:17, 35:7, 49:14,15, 55:15, 86:13, 88:3,4,5-12, 89:48, 94:13, 115:17, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7, 143:7; Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 6:6, 9:10; Song of Songs [Solomon] 8:6; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9,11,15,19, 22:16, 28:15,18, 38:10,18, 53:9, 57:9, 65:4; Jeremiah 5:16, 8:1, 26:23, 20:17; Ezekiel 26:20, 31:15-17, 32:18,21-27, 37:12,13, 39:11; Hosea 13:14; Amos 9:2; Jonah 2:2 [<- figurative, typological]; Nahum 1:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Matthew 8:8, 11:23, 23:27,29, 27:52,53,60,61,64,66, 28:8; Mark 5:2,3,5, 6:29, 15:46, 16:2,3,5,8; Luke 8:27, 10:15, 11:47,48, 23:53,55, 24:1,2,9,12,22,24; John 5:28, 11:31,38, 12:17, 19:41,42, 20:1-4,6,8,11; Acts 2:29,34, 7:16, 13:29,36; Romans 3:13; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18, 11:9, 20:13,14]

Perhaps it might be a good idea for you to look at the Hebrew and Greek word meaning of Hades, Hell etc as all it means here most passages of the bible is an unseen place in reference to the grave. This word is found in the English Testament twenty-three times. But in the Greek Testament there are three different words, hades, gehenna and tartarus, signifying different places, all rendered by the one English word, “hell.” Thus, hades is used eleven times in the original, and is rendered “hell” ten times and “grave” once.

The following are the places of its occurrence, the italicized word hades

Matthew 11:23. Shalt be brought down to hell.
Matthew 16:18. The gates of hell shall not prevail.
Luke 10:15. Shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luke 16:23. In hell he lift up his eyes.
Acts of the Apostles 2:27. Wilt not leave my soul in hell.
Acts of the Apostles 2:31. His soul was not left in hell.
1 Corinthians 15:55. O grave, where is thy victory?
Revelation 1:18. Have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 6:8. Was death, and hell followed.
Revelation 20:13. Death and hell delivered up the dead.
Revelation 20:14. Death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.​

Gehenna is found in the following places:

Matthew 5:22. Shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:29. Whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:30. Whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 10:28. Destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 18:9. Having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 23:15. More the child of hell than yourselves.
Matthew 23:33. How can ye escape the damnation of hell
Mark 9:43. Having two hands to go into hell
Mark 9:45. Having two feet to be cast into hell.
Mark 9:47. Having two eyes to be cast into hell.
Luke 12:5. Hath power to cast into hell
James 3:6. It is set on fire of hell.​

Tartarus is used only in the following text: “God spared no the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell.” 2 Peter 2:4.

Thus hades is seen to be the place of the dead, whether righteous or wicked; the place into which they are introduced by death, and from which they are delivered by the resurrection. Those who are in hades are said to be dead. Revelation 20:13. Once, in the English Testament, hades is rendered “grave.” 1 Corinthians 15:55. Gehenna, on the contrary, is the place where the wicked are to be cast alive with all their members, and to be destroyed soul and body. It is the lake of fire in which the wicked dead are to be punished after their resurrection. Revelation 20:13-15. Tartarus is the place into which the evil angels were cast after their rebellion. These three places, therefore, though rendered by the one English word “hell,” are not to be confounded with one another.

It is claimed that the Saviour, in giving the warning recorded in Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:4, 5, taught the continued existence of the soul in death. But it is worthy of notice that in each of these texts He utters no warning concerning the punishment of the soul in hades, the place or state of the dead. His warning relates to that which shall be inflicted upon “soul and body” together in gehenna.

That He should speak nothing of the punishment of the soul in its disembodied state in hades, if such punishment really takes place, is very remarkable; for here, more than anywhere else in the Bible, is there evidence of the continued existence of the soul while the body is under the power of death. Yet while expressly stating the terrible fate of the lost, and that, too, in such connection as would especially call out the fact, if it were a fact, that the souls of the wicked exist in a place of dreadful suffering, between death and the resurrection, the Savior says not one word concerning the sufferings of the soul in its disembodied state, but confines His warning to that which shall be inflicted upon “both soul and body in hell,” that is, in gehenna, thus showing that the retribution against which He warns us comes after the resurrection, and not before.

Our Lord means to point out precisely the danger to which the ungodly are exposed. When, therefore, He says “Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into gehenna,” He means to teach that God will cast the wicked into gehenna. And when Matthew, expressing the same warning in different words, makes the Saviour say, “Fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna,” the fact set forth is that such will be the fate of the lost.

“Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath power to cast into gehenna.” As the wicked are to be cast into gehenna alive, and in possession of all their bodily members (see the list of passages in this tract where gehenna is used), it follows that He who can thus cast them there, after they have once been killed, is God alone; for to do this, He must raise them from the dead. The resurrection to damnation must precede the damnation of gehenna. Compare John 5:28, 29 with Matthew 23:33.

SOUL

Hebrew..

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H5315
נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh | neh'-fesh) Derivation: from נָפַשׁ; Strong's: properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) KJV: any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, [idiom] dead(-ly), desire, [idiom] (dis-) contented, [idiom] fish, ghost, [phrase] greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, [idiom] jeopardy of) life ([idiom] in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, [phrase] slay, soul, [phrase] tablet, they, thing, ([idiom] she) will, [idiom] would have it.

Greek...

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5590
ψυχή (psychḗ | psoo-khay') Derivation: from G5594; Strong's: breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151

SPIRIT

Hebrew....

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7307
רוּחַ (rûwach | roo'-akh) Derivation: from רוּחַ; Strong's: wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions) KJV: air, anger, blast, breath, [idiom] cool, courage, mind, [idiom] quarter, [idiom] side, spirit(-ual), tempest, [idiom] vain, (whirl-) wind(-y).

Greek....

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4151
πνεῦμα (pneûma | pnyoo'-mah) Derivation: from G4154; Strong's: a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit

As shown in the scriptures posted earlier "the breath of life" returns to God who gave it once we die the first death. The body returns to dust and the Spirit (breath of life) returns to God (see Ecclesiastes 12:7; Genesis 3:19 and Genesis 2:7).

More to come....

 

[LoveGodsWord]

icedragon101 said: ↑ 1 Thess 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 3 parts to a person

The scripture reads as follows

• 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

or

• Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Look at the Greek meanings.

SPIRIT

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 4151: πνεῦμα
πνεῦμα, πνεύματος, τό (πνέω), Greek writings from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; Hebrew רוּחַ, Latinspiritus
The rational spirit, the power by which a human being feels, thinks, wills, decides; the soul: τό πνεῦμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τό ἐν αὐτῷ, 1 Corinthians 2:11; opposed to σάρξ (which see (especially 2 a.)), Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Colossians 2:5; opposed to τό σῶμα, Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 6:17, 20 Rec.; ; 1 Peter 4:6. Although for the most part the words πνεῦμα and ψυχή are used indiscriminately and so σῶμα and ψυχή put in contrast (but never by Paul; see ψυχή, especially 2), there is also recognized a threefold distinction, τό πνεῦμα καί ἡ ψυχή καί τό σῶμα, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, according to which τό πνεῦμα is the rational part of man, the power of perceiving and grasping divine and eternal things, and upon which the Spirit of God exerts its influence; (πνεῦμα, says Luther, "is the highest and noblest part of man, which qualifies him to lay bold of incomprehensible, invisible, eternal things; in short, it is the house where Faith and God's word are at home" (see references at end)

SOUL

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 5590: ψυχή
ψυχή, ψυχῆς, ἡ (ψύχω, to breathe, blow)
The breath of life; the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing: Acts 20:10; of animals, Revelation 8:9 (Genesis 9:4; Genesis 35:18; ἐπιστραφήτω ψυχή τοῦ παιδαρίου, 1 Kings 17:21); so also in those passages where, in accordance with the trichotomy or threefold division of human nature by the Greeks, ἡ ψυχή; is distinguished from τό πνεῦμα (see πνευαμ, 2, p. 520a (and references under the word πνεῦμα 5)), 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12.

BODY

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 4983: σῶμα
σῶμα, σώματος, τό (apparently from σῶς 'entire' (but cf. Curtius, § 570; others from the root, ska, sko, 'to cover', cf. Vanicek, p. 1055; Curtius, p. 696)), the Sept. for בָּשָׂר, גְּוִיָּה, etc.; נְבֵלָה (a corpse), also for Chaldean גֶּשֶׁם; a body; and:
The living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23

.................

Therefore the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is simply that God will sanctify you to the utmost of all your being. Or for Matthew 10:28, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot take away your life as that comes from God (eternal life). Be afraid therefore of those who can take away your body and your life (eternal life) that comes from God (context is to "believers" - John 3:36).

...................

I am not telling you what to believe. What you believe is between you and God. I am only showing you from the scriptures what I believe. I probably will not spend much more time here as my time is limited. If you want to know what we believe on the "state of the dead" please follow the linked post here and read most of the posts provided on the first two pages here linked in "THE TRUTH OF THE STATE OF THE DEAD"

Thanks for the discussion.

Take Care

 

[tall73]

No we do not teach the same thing as JW's.

It is similar in some respects. I don't think JW adherents can post in this section to clarify. But this is from their website:

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/when-you-die/


The Bible says: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalm 146:4) Therefore, when we die, we cease to exist. The dead can’t think, act, or feel anything.
“To dust you will return”


God explained what happens when we die when he spoke to the first man, Adam. Because Adam was disobedient, God said to him: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Before God created Adam “out of dust from the ground,” Adam did not exist. (Genesis 2:7) Likewise, when Adam died, he returned to dust and ceased to exist.


The same thing happens to those who die now. Speaking of both humans and animals, the Bible says: “They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”—Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20.



The Bible often compares death to sleep. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14; Acts 7:60) A person who is fast asleep is unaware of what is happening around him. Likewise, the dead are not conscious of anything. Yet, the Bible teaches that God can awaken the dead as if from sleep and give them life again. (Job 14:13-15)

 

[tall73]

Here, though, is where the JW diverge from Adventist teaching on the topic:

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-the-resurrection/

Who will be resurrected? The Bible says that “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (Acts 24:15) The righteous include faithful people, such as Noah, Sarah, and Abraham. (Genesis 6:9; Hebrews 11:11; James 2:21) The unrighteous include those who failed to meet God’s standards but did not have the opportunity to learn and follow them.

However, those who become so wicked that they are beyond reform will not be resurrected. When such ones die, they suffer permanent destruction with no hope of a return to life.—Matthew 23:33; Hebrews 10:26, 27.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

you ignored the other passages of scripture

The scripture reads as follows

• 1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

or

• Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

I know Greek Your use of greek is wrong.

Look at the Greek meanings.

SPIRIT

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 4151: πνεῦμα
πνεῦμα, πνεύματος, τό (πνέω), Greek writings from Aeschylus and Herodotus down; Hebrew רוּחַ, Latinspiritus

The rational spirit, the power by which a human being feels, thinks, wills, decides; the soul: τό πνεῦμα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου τό ἐν αὐτῷ, 1 Corinthians 2:11; opposed to σάρξ (which see (especially 2 a.)), Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 2 Corinthians 7:1; Colossians 2:5; opposed to τό σῶμα, Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 6:17, 20 Rec.; ; 1 Peter 4:6. Although for the most part the words πνεῦμα and ψυχή are used indiscriminately and so σῶμα and ψυχή put in contrast (but never by Paul; see ψυχή, especially 2), there is also recognized a threefold distinction, τό πνεῦμα καί ἡ ψυχή καί τό σῶμα, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, according to which τό πνεῦμα is the rational part of man, the power of perceiving and grasping divine and eternal things, and upon which the Spirit of God exerts its influence; (πνεῦμα, says Luther, "is the highest and noblest part of man, which qualifies him to lay bold of incomprehensible, invisible, eternal things; in short, it is the house where Faith and God's word are at home" (see references at end)

SOUL

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 5590: ψυχή
ψυχή, ψυχῆς, ἡ (ψύχω, to breathe, blow)
The breath of life; the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing: Acts 20:10; of animals, Revelation 8:9 (Genesis 9:4; Genesis 35:18; ἐπιστραφήτω ψυχή τοῦ παιδαρίου, 1 Kings 17:21); so also in those passages where, in accordance with the trichotomy or threefold division of human nature by the Greeks, ἡ ψυχή; is distinguished from τό πνεῦμα (see πνευαμ, 2, p. 520a (and references under the word πνεῦμα 5)), 1 Thessalonians 5:23; Hebrews 4:12.

BODY

Thayer's Greek Lexicon STRONGS NT 4983: σῶμα
σῶμα, σώματος, τό (apparently from σῶς 'entire' (but cf. Curtius, § 570; others from the root, ska, sko, 'to cover', cf. Vanicek, p. 1055; Curtius, p. 696)), the Sept. for בָּשָׂר, גְּוִיָּה, etc.; נְבֵלָה (a corpse), also for Chaldean גֶּשֶׁם; a body; and:
The living body: — of animals, James 3:3; — of man: τό σῶμα, absolutely, Luke 11:34; Luke 12:23; 1 Corinthians 6:13, etc.; ἐν σώματι εἶναι, of earthly life with its troubles, Hebrews 13:3; distinguished from τό αἷμα, 1 Corinthians 11:27; τό σῶμα and τά μέλη of it, 1 Corinthians 12:12, 14-20; James 3:6; τό σῶμα the temple of τό ἅγιον πνεῦμα, 1 Corinthians 6:19; the instrument of the soul, τά διά τοῦ σωματου namely, πραχθεντα, 2 Corinthians 5:10; it is distinguished — from τό πνεῦμα, in Romans 8:10; 1 Corinthians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 6:20 Rec.; ; James 2:26 (4 Macc. 11:11); — from ἡ ψυχή, in Matthew 6:25; Matthew 10:28; Luke 12:22 (Wis. 1:4 Wis. 8:19f; 2 Macc. 7:37 2Macc. 14:38; 4 Macc. 1:28, etc.); — from ἡ ψυχή and τό πνεῦμα together, in 1 Thessalonians 5:23

.................

Therefore the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is simply that God will sanctify you to the utmost of all your being. I know greek, so you won't be able to pull the Greek card out. There are so many things wrong with what have said. you have confused the spirit and soul. the spirit is the power source and the soul is the rational part. you have it back wards.
spirit - Strong's Greek: 4151. πνεῦμα (pneuma) -- wind, spirit
soul - Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- breath, the soul
body - Strong's Greek: 4983. σῶμα (sóma) -- a body

Ghenna - does not help you. Gehenna is a place that you can be put into

Greek specifies body, soul & spirit. it list them as 3 seperate parts. SDA s have a problem with the soul existing after the body dies. because of Gen 2:7 and Gen 3:19. so they intrepet they wrongly assume that the body and spirit cannot produce something else, a soul.

Or for Matthew 10:28, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot take away your life as that comes from God (eternal life). Be afraid therefore of those who can take away your body and your life (eternal life) that comes from God.
That is an unique view, How does your "Eternal Life" get thrown into hell. That makes no sense. It only makes sense if there is a soul. he is saying be afraid of the one who can destroy your body and you Mind,Character & Personality in hell.


...................

I am not telling you what to believe. What you believe is between you and God. I am only showing you from the scriptures what I believe. I probably will not spend much more time here as my time is limited. If you want to know what we believe on the "state of the dead" please follow the linked post here and read most of the posts provided on the first two pages here linked in "THE TRUTH OF THE STATE OF THE DEAD"

Thanks for the discussion.

I know Greek and you are not correct. Also you have not accurately understood my view. your "Truth of the State of the Dead" is not accurate you have not looked at all the texts on the subject. In your desire to reject the Eternal Torment doctrine you have gone to far. You ignored Jude 1:6-13, 2 Peter 2:4,9 these 2 passages seal the deal. Hell is a place of darkness reserved for the Demons and the Ungodly. Darkness not fire.


Just to let you know I know the SDA theology. There is nothing NEW you have to offer I have attended SDA churches all my life.

In addition I have a degree in SDA theology and was a Pastor, Colporter, Dean & Evangelist in the SDA church. I went 2 SDA elementary schools, 2 SDA High schools, 2 SDA Colleges. I lived in 6 different Colleges communities and visited 2 other college communities . I have spent time amidst amidst SDA independent ministries, Including Amazing Facts, Light Bears, and Amazing Discoveries. so I know what the SDA church, it's teaching, it's culture & It's practice and it's function.

I have also received training at 3 separate Non-SDA Universities, and 3 Non-SDA training institutes. I have spent over 20 years in the study of SDA teaching and over 15 years in active discussion and debate on SDA History and Doctrine. Unless you have a masters degree and have traveled widely most people don't have the same level of experience and training as I do. Do you have any training at all? Do you know Greek or Hebrew?

There is a tendency to for people on CF to think they know it all and they are the only ones. Like I have never seen an SDA before. some people think they are inherently superior and entitled and we have to go back to square one when they show up. I am more then aware of the SDA theology. I am aware and I reject it as incorrect. sorry. conclusion are premature.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

you ignored the other passages of scripture
I know Greek Your use of greek is wrong.


.................

Therefore the meaning of 1 Thessalonians 5:23 is simply that God will sanctify you to the utmost of all your being. I know greek, so you won't be able to pull the Greek card out. There are so many things wrong with what have said. you have confused the spirit and soul. the spirit is the power source and the soul is the rational part. you have it back wards.
spirit - Strong's Greek: 4151. πνεῦμα (pneuma) -- wind, spirit
soul - Strong's Greek: 5590. ψυχή (psuché) -- breath, the soul
body - Strong's Greek: 4983. σῶμα (sóma) -- a body

Ghenna - does not help you. Gehenna is a place that you can be put into

Greek specifies body, soul & spirit. it list them as 3 seperate parts. SDA s have a problem with the soul existing after the body dies. because of Gen 2:7 and Gen 3:19. so they intrepet they wrongly assume that the body and spirit cannot produce something else, a soul.

Or for Matthew 10:28, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot take away your life as that comes from God (eternal life). Be afraid therefore of those who can take away your body and your life (eternal life) that comes from God.
That is an unique view, How does your "Eternal Life" get thrown into hell. That makes no sense. It only makes sense if there is a soul. he is saying be afraid of the one who can destroy your body and you Mind,Character & Personality in hell.


...................


I know Greek and you are not correct. Also you have not accurately understood my view. your "Truth of the State of the Dead" is not accurate you have not looked at all the texts on the subject. In your desire to reject the Eternal Torment doctrine you have gone to far. You ignored Jude 1:6-13, 2 Peter 2:4,9 these 2 passages seal the deal. Hell is a place of darkness reserved for the Demons and the Ungodly. Darkness not fire.


Just to let you know I know the SDA theology. There is nothing NEW you have to offer I have attended SDA churches all my life.

In addition I have a degree in SDA theology and was a Pastor, Colporter, Dean & Evangelist in the SDA church. I went 2 SDA elementary schools, 2 SDA High schools, 2 SDA Colleges. I lived in 6 different Colleges communities and visited 2 other college communities . I have spent time amidst amidst SDA independent ministries, Including Amazing Facts, Light Bears, and Amazing Discoveries. so I know what the SDA church, it's teaching, it's culture & It's practice and it's function.

I have also received training at 3 separate Non-SDA Universities, and 3 Non-SDA training institutes. I have spent over 20 years in the study of SDA teaching and over 15 years in active discussion and debate on SDA History and Doctrine. Unless you have a masters degree and have traveled widely most people don't have the same level of experience and training as I do. Do you have any training at all? Do you know Greek or Hebrew?

There is a tendency to for people on CF to think they know it all and they are the only ones. Like I have never seen an SDA before. some people think they are inherently superior and entitled and we have to go back to square one when they show up. I am more then aware of the SDA theology. I am aware and I reject it as incorrect. sorry. conclusion are premature.

Not really dear friend. Please take the time to re-read what was written to you. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. I am not here to tell you what you should believe or to argue with you. I will let the scriptures already provided and the Greek meanings already shown speak for themselves with further scriptures already provided in the linked subject matter. As for me, it does not matter who I am or what my training is, as I am no one and neither do I seek to be anyone of importance in my own eyes. I am only seeking to be like those humble fisherman that asks God to be their guide and teacher and to follow Him by pointing all who have eyes to see and ears to hear to God's Word, saying He (Jesus the living Word) must increase but I must decrease make straight the paths of the Lord. God is calling all of us where ever we might be to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure words of God. The hour is coming says Jesus and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Sadly many will be called but only the few will be the chosen. Thank you for the discussion and may God help you on your journey, as you seek Him through His Word

Take care dear friend

 

[Adventist Heretic]

No I did not ignore anything. Of course you are free to believe as you wish as that is between you and God. I am not here to tell you what you should believe. I will let the scriptures already provided and the Greek meanings already shown speak for themselves with further scriptures already provided in the linked subject matter. As for me, it does not matter who I am or what my training is, as I am no one and neither do I seek to be anyone of importance in my own eyes. I am only seeking to be like those humble fisherman that asks God to be their guide and teacher and to follow Him by pointing all who have eyes to see and ears to hear to God's Word, saying He (Jesus) must increase but I must decrease make straight the paths of the Lord. God is calling all of us where ever we might be to come out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure words of God. The hour is coming says Jesus and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Sadly many will be called but only the few will be the chosen. Thank you for the discussion and may God bless on your journey, you as you seek Him through His Word

Take care

yes you did ignore it, what does Jude and 2 Peter mean, how does that fit into your theology? Yes you are here telling people what to believe? I cite the post above as evidence of that. If you wanted to be humble please address the text.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

smile

 

[RileyG]

Thank you everyone for your response! I am learning a lot!

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Thank you everyone for your response! I am learning a lot!

Outstanding

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings The Liturgist,

Christadelphians are a heretical non-Christian neo-Arian cult

I am not sure if I will be banned as I belong to the Christadelphian "cult", but regarding this thread I and my Christadelphian fellowship believe that Adam in Genesis 3:19 was sentenced to return to the dust. In Daniel 12:2-3 we have the prophecy that the faithful will be resurrected from the dust, they will "awake" from their "sleep in the dust" (figurative language as they are dead and have returned to the dust as stated in Genesis 3:19 with no consciousness), and after the resurrection they will be given everlasting life.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[9Rock9]

I think Luther did, but I don't think modern Lutherans do, though.

 

[RileyG]

I think Luther did, but I don't think modern Lutherans do, though.

that is correct