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Denominations and soul sleep

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by RileyG, May 17, 2022.

  1. RileyG

    RileyG Veteran

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    What denominations mostly believe in soul sleep? From my experience, the only ones that does is SDA.
     
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  2. Akita Suggagaki

    Akita Suggagaki Well-Known Member

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  3. RileyG

    RileyG Veteran

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  4. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think people have different definitions of soul sleep so that term might mean different things to different people.

    The SDA's believe when you die you are dead (sleep) Ecclesiastes 12:7 James 2:26 and when Jesus comes those in Christ will meet Him in the air for everlasting life 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 . Those who are not in Christ for everlasting condemnation (death).
     
  5. Pavel Mosko

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    Besides the forementioned folks mentioned by previous poster once in a blue moon you can get Sola Scripturists to advocate for it. A long time ago, on this web site their was a thread asking about the belief of the intercession of the dead and I had a major debate with this one poster who use to poke his head around here, who I'm seem to recall was some kind of Baptist / anabaptist. I may edit in or post a link to that if I can figure out how to find it.



    Maybe that was over at the defunct Theologica website..... Yeah I guess it was, wow I wish I would have saved that discussion for future reference and citation. That guy used every trick in the book, I eventually had to quote to him what Necromancy in the Bible actually was from a Jewish Encyclopedia and also relate his claims to what the Bible says about bearing false witness, since he did everything in his power to strawman the position of non-Protestants on the topic. By actually proving that last part, I got him to somewhat simmer down. But I was astounded at his insistence at the "Let the clear passages, interpret the clear ones" he used to rationalize why the soul sleep passages of the Psalms were clearer than passages what was seen in Revelation, as well as 'the Great Cloud of Witnesses" mentioned by saint Paul etc. !
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
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  6. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    SDA's do not believe in soul sleep. they believe you ARE a soul you do not have one.

    The Jews are soul sleepers, soul sleep is the condition in death before Christ came.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2022
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  7. RileyG

    RileyG Veteran

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    Thanks for the info!
     
  8. RileyG

    RileyG Veteran

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    So in other words, the dead currently experience nothingness? The wicked will eventually be annihilated?
     
  9. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    cremated or perish is the word I like to use.
     
  10. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Also JW's believe like SDA's
     
  11. SabbathBlessings

    SabbathBlessings Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am pretty sure JW use the same term “soul sleep” but applies it to a different meaning.

    My friend @LoveGodsWord outlined very clearly with scripture what happens when you die so I am going to repeat it for reference:

    THE TRUTH ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD - WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY? THE TRUTH ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD?

    Hi all hope for a friendly discussion please based on the scriptures.

    I see that there seems to be some confusion on what the scriptures actually teach on what happens when we die. So what is the state of the dead? Do we remain dead until the second coming where there the the scriptures teach those who have died in Christ will be resurrected? Or do we go to heaven when we die? These of course are contradictions in themselves.

    According to the scriptures death is referred to by Jesus as a sleep which is a metaphor for death that we awake from at the second coming's resurrection. So what does the bible teach on the state of the dead? I will post some of the scriptures on what I believe happens when we die and we can investigate all of the other scriptures on what others might think it means (hoping for friendly discussion please)

    WHAT DOES JESUS SAY ABOUT THE STATE OF THE DEAD OR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE?

    JOHN 11:11-13 11, These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, OUR FRIEND LAZARUS SLEEPS; BUT I GO, THAT I MAY AWAKE HIM OUT OF SLEEP. 12, Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13, HOWBEIT JESUS SPAKE OF HIS DEATH: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14, Then said JESUS UNTO THEM PLAINLY, LAZARUS IS DEAD.

    Jesus says that death is like a sleep and a metaphor for death we wake up out from when he resurrects us. This is a key scripture here so I separated this scripture from all the scriptures provided below from the old and new testaments that describe what happens when we die...

    (Note: I might ask some questions here but I am not going to provide the answers on purpose here because it is best if you can prayerfully ask God and see the answers in the scriptures provided for yourself)...

    Here is a list of a lot of scriptures you may want to investigate on the topic of the state of the dead or soul sleep or what happens when we die according to the scriptures if your interested and have some time if this topic is new to you...

    WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ON WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DIE?
    (you find the answers prayerfully from the scriptures below)

    Death is referred to as a sleep which is a metaphor for death in scripture...

    A.: [To be dead or in death is referred to as a sleep, asleep, sleepeth]Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead/asleep] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40

    The dead do not know anything in sleep until Jesus returns...

    B.:
    [The dead knowing nothing] Genesis 27:4, 45:28; Ruth 1:17; Job 3:17-19, 7:8-10, 14:21, 21:32; 2 Kings 22:20; 2 Chronicles 34:28; Psalms 6:5, 28:1, 31:17, 88:4,10,11, 115:17, 143:7, 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:4,5,6,10; Isaiah 14:11, 38:18; [reserved] 2 Peter 2:9; [He goes to prepare a place, so that when He comes again, 2nd Advent, He will raise us and receive us] John 14:2-3

    When we die we go to the grave...

    C.: [The dead are in the grave/s], sepulchre/s, tomb/s, pit/s, hell [ie Hb: sheol; Gr: hades; grave]]Genesis 23:6, 35:20, 37:35, 44:29,31, 50:5; Exodus 14:11; Numbers 16:30, 19:16,18; Deuteronomy 34:6; Judges 8:32, 1 Samuel 2:6, 10:2; 2 Samuel 3:32, 4:10, 17:23, 19:37, 21:14, 22:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9, 13:22,30,31, 14:13; 2 Kings 9:28, 13:21, 21:26, 22:20, 23:6,16,17,30; 2 Chronicles 16:14, 21:20, 24:25, 28:27, 32:33, 34:4,28, 35:24; Nehemiah 2:3,5, 3:16; Job 3:17-19,22, 5:26, 7:8-10, 10:19, 11:8, 14:12-14,21, 17:1,13,16, 21:13,23-32, 24:19, 26:6, 30:24, 33:22; Psalms 5:9, 6:5, 18:5, 28:1, 30:3, 31:17, 35:7, 49:14,15, 55:15, 86:13, 88:3,4,5-12, 89:48, 94:13, 115:17, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7, 143:7; Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11,24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16; Ecclesiastes 6:6, 9:10; Song of Songs [Solomon] 8:6; Isaiah 5:14, 14:9,11,15,19, 22:16, 28:15,18, 38:10,18, 53:9, 57:9, 65:4; Jeremiah 5:16, 8:1, 26:23, 20:17; Ezekiel 26:20, 31:15-17, 32:18,21-27, 37:12,13, 39:11; Hosea 13:14; Amos 9:2; Jonah 2:2 [<- figurative, typological]; Nahum 1:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Matthew 8:8, 11:23, 23:27,29, 27:52,53,60,61,64,66, 28:8; Mark 5:2,3,5, 6:29, 15:46, 16:2,3,5,8; Luke 8:27, 10:15, 11:47,48, 23:53,55, 24:1,2,9,12,22,24; John 5:28, 11:31,38, 12:17, 19:41,42, 20:1-4,6,8,11; Acts 2:29,34, 7:16, 13:29,36; Romans 3:13; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18, 11:9, 20:13,14

    Righteous and dead in Christ are raised to life at the second coming...

    D.: [Those in Christ resurrected from the grave/death/sleep at the second coming]1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; 1 Corinthians 15:50-55; Philippians 3:10-11; Danial 12:2

    Wicked resurrected to the 2nd death...

    E.: [2nd death from which there is no life, nor resurrection, nor return - annihilation] Psalms 9:17; Matthew 5:22,29,30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45,47; Luke 12:5; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 3:6; Revelation 2:11, 20:6,14, 21:8

    The wicked in the second death are destroyed and forever...

    F.: [sin/sinners gone forever, cut off, perished, no more, destroyed, passed away, etc] Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 7:17, 20:9, 21:4
    John 3:16 says Perish or Everlasting Life [the wicked receive no such gift as everlasting life [there are no immortalized wicked anywhere and never will be], it is only a gift to the saved/just/righteous].

    Additionally, it is the righteous who will dwell with everlasting burnings (Isaiah 33:14), for God is a consuming fire [to sin and of Love] (Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3; Hebrews 12:29) and His ministers a flame of fire (Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7) and His Throne of Fire (Daniel 7:9; Revelation 4:5) and His speech fire (2 Samuel 22:9; Psalms 18:8) for He is a purifying fire (Malachi 3:3) and it is they who have the victory over sin who stand upon the sea of glass mingled with fire (Revelation 15:2), and will be as the burning bush which was not consumed (Exodus 3:3), not the wicked [they are burnt up into smoke and ashes at the meeting out of Judgment, they are perished.

    ..................

    Why you might be asking is the above topic important to understand? Well it is very important as it leads into a correct understanding of the resurrection and God's judgement and what happens at the second coming as well as prepares us to be ready to avoid the great deceptions from Satan that will happen just prior to when Jesus returns so we can be prepared to meet Jesus and remain faithful to the end. The doctrine of purgatory, eternal burning Hell or heaven once we die is a false teaching that has led many away from the scriptures to the teachings of men that is not biblical.

    God bless...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  12. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional, Liturgical, Wesleyan, Orthodox Supporter

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    I have to stress I think the traditional doctrine of the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches is much more on-point here.
     
  13. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional, Liturgical, Wesleyan, Orthodox Supporter

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    Christadelphians are a heretical non-Christian neo-Arian cult which not only denies the Holy Trinity but whose founder considered belief in the Holy Trinity to preclude salvation. They also reject the doctrine of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, instead adopting a crypto-Pelagian view that one can receive divine grace just from reading the Bible (so perhaps people with severe intellectual disabilities preventing them from understanding Scripture even if it is read to them are just plain out of luck, or perhaps they have some other weird heretical workaround).

    Christadelphian beliefs directly contradict the CF.com Statement of Faith, which I regard as being the best ecumenical statement of faith possible for a website like this, since it takes the Nicene Creed and adds in some additional common sense safeguards, for example, by prohibiting the denial of the Apostolate of St. Paul.

    That said I do believe there are a few other Christian denominations according to the CF.com Statement of Faith with an eschatology analogous to that of the SDA, for example, the Seventh Day Baptists. Also, there are actually two SDA churches, the mainstream SDA, which features a cross on its logo, and the SDA Reform Movement, which originated in Europe after WWI in the midst of a controversy over what to do about Adventists in Germany who had served in the Great War as armed combatants in the the Reichsheer (the Imperial German Army commanded by Kaiser Wilhelm II, which was replaced by the Reichswehr in the Weimar Republic, and the Wehrmacht under Adolf Hitler). This was a complex scenario, as unlike the United States during WWII, the Reichsheer and other European armies (even including the British Army) during the Great War tended to treat non-combatants very harshly, and this had a terrible effect on all of the historic Peace Churches in Europe (Adventists, Quakers, Mennonites, Anabaptists, etc).
     
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  14. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    how is that?
     
  15. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Sheol & Hades are not the grave. it is a place of Darkness, a holding cell a jail. Jude 1:6, And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

    2 Peter 2:4
    For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

    6And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling—these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day. 7In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.8Yet in the same way these dreamers defile their bodies, reject authority, and slander glorious beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, did not presume to bring a slanderous charge against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”b 10These men, however, slander what they do not understand, and like irrational animals, they will be destroyed by the things they do instinctively. 11Woe to them! They have traveled the path of Cain; they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam; they have perished in Korah’s rebellion.12These men are hidden reefsc in your love feasts, shamelessly feasting with you but shepherding only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried along by the wind; fruitless trees in autumn, twice dead after being uprooted. 13They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.14Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about them:

    “Behold, the Lord is coming
    with myriads of His holy ones15to execute judgment on everyone,
    and to convict all the ungodly
    of every ungodly act of wickedness


    and every harsh word spoken against Him by ungodly sinners.”d16These men are discontented grumblers, following after their own lusts; their mouths spew arrogance; they flatter others for their own advantage.

    Matt 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Isa 10:18 Body & Soul of warriors destroyed.

    1 Thess 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    3 parts to a person

    A person can be cast into outer Darkness.Matthew 8:12, 22:13, and 25:30

    Texts on Outer Darkness 13 Bible verses about The Outer Darkness
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
  16. DragonFox91

    DragonFox91 Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea what soul sleep is so I guess not Baptist nor RCA.
     
  17. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    it is the belief that when a person dies, they are unconscious and unaware of what is going in the universe. their soul goes to a place of Darkness and is dormant. It is the Jewish view of death.

    SDA's and JW have a modified view of this, they believe you are unconscious, but do not have a soul you are one, as such when you die the soul (person) goes down to the grave, dust to dust, and waits for the resurrection.
     
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  18. DragonFox91

    DragonFox91 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. I've read things from sources I trust that say you don't go to heaven when you die, you wait for the Resurrection. But I haven't really done too much research into the topic. It's not ever really something discussed at churches I've attended. We focus on what Christ did yesterday, what he will do today while we are here on earth, & what he will eventually do when he reigns forever. We do not dwell on whatever the physically dead are doing. Although I'm sure there's something in the churchs' doctrine about it.
     
  19. icedragon101

    icedragon101 Senior Veteran Supporter

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    your understanding reflects the SDA, JW view, but it is not soul sleep.
     
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  20. RileyG

    RileyG Veteran

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    JW's are not considered Christians by CF's standard.
     
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