Denominations and predestination

[Tellyontellyon]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

A better question might be, what do different groups mean by the word, and how do they view it? It is, after all, a worldview thing.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

A better question might be, what do different groups mean by the word, and how do they view it? It is, after all, a worldview thing.

Well, if you want to say more about it, but could you also say what the different denominations say... or at least the ones you are familiar with.

 

[Anthony2019]

I think that most, if not all, Christian denominations believe in predestination, but there are varying views on what it means.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

but there are varying views on what it means.

What does it mean?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

A better question might be, what do different groups mean by the word, and how do they view it? It is, after all, a worldview thing.

Well, if you want to say more about it, but could you also say what the different denominations say... or at least the ones you are familiar with.

Mostly I can say what I have heard in debating other Christians, most of whom seem to want to limit what God can do.

Reformed theology/ Calvinism seems to be the only view that claims God has absolute control over absolutely everything. Some others say God can have control over whatever he chooses to have control over, but allows things to wander by themselves otherwise. Some others go so far as to say that God cannot do certain things unless we allow him to do so. I'm not going to name names here.

Simple logic should tell them otherwise, but they can't stomach the idea that self-determination does not belong to the creature. "That's not fair!"

 

[Tellyontellyon]

Some others say God can have control over whatever he chooses to have control over, but allows things to wander by themselves otherwise.

That would explain the Fall, I guess?

 

[Mark Quayle]

That would explain the Fall, I guess?

Not really. Apart from the notion that the Chain of Causality does not prevail, it is simply illogical that anything can happen apart from the causality of First Cause. There is no such thing as Chance. That is just "a placeholder for 'I don't know'."

You would be hard pressed to show equal possibility of something not chosen, happening, compared to another option chosen, happening.

 

[Tellyontellyon]

You would be hard pressed to show equal possibility of something not chosen, happening, compared to another option chosen, happening.

I'm not a philosopher, but does that mean that God has chosen everything, including the fall. I don't really understand..
What then is sin, in that context?

 

[Mark Quayle]

I'm not a philosopher, but does that mean that God has chosen everything, including the fall. I don't really understand..
What then is sin, in that context?

To fit out minds, Reformed theology says God has two wills. The obvious [command] and the hidden [plan]. Sins are rebellion to the command, or behind that, sin is simple rebellion against God himself. We know a little about the plan, but we have the command to follow. Satan and his followers are against both, but inevitably fit exactly what God planned all along. Has to be pretty frustrating!

We fit his plan too --precisely. But that isn't obedience nor submission.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

The denomination that I belong to does not believe in Predestination, we believe people have free will. Although we do believe that God has a plan for each person; a plan that I believe is partly predetermined by God. I am a part of the Pentecostal movement.

I have put my thoughts on the topic here as well as link to a video that discusses free will. Is Predestination real? | Everybody Matters Ministry

 

[aiki]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

www.soteriology101.com (Provisionism)
www.reasonablefaith.com (search: Molinism)

I've been within the Baptist denomination all my life and have encountered a spectrum of soteriological perspectives in the denomination ranging from universalist to high Calvinist. My own perspective, is a mixture of Molinism and Provisionism, having abandoned Calvinism about seven years ago (which I had held to for decades).

 

[ViaCrucis]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

In Lutheranism predestination only refers to God's gracious and loving choosing us sinners in Christ for salvation. We reject anything more than that, which is why we do not believe that God predestined anyone to damnation, or that bad things happen in the world because God predestined them, etc.

Predestination applies only to the Faithful. Predestination does not mean that Christians cannot fall away; and neither does it mean that God has ignored, passed over, or rejected those who do not believe.

Christ died for all. When Lutherans say this, we mean that very literally. Everyone is included in Jesus. As such no one is excluded from what Jesus has done. Therefore God does not ignore or pass anyone by--all are called, all are included. What Predestination means is simply that, for those who believe, we can be comforted by the Gospel of God's mercy and kindness to us in Jesus; such that He did not leave it up to us to go out and find Him, but He came and found us right where we are.

Unfortunately, predestination has come to mean all sorts of things, at times getting dangerously close to the heresy of Fatalism.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Albion]

That would explain the Fall, I guess?

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

What does it mean?

Basically, Predestination means that God chose who would receive Faith and be saved by it. It does not mean that he ordered everything else that happens or that we do in life or believe.

As for which denominations believe in this Predestination, there are a relative few. They generally can be identified by the word Reformed in the church title or Presbyterian. Also, some but not most Baptists agree.

The hundreds or thousands of other Christian denominations do not believe in such predestining by God although they do believe he is all-powerful and all-knowing.

 

[mmarco]

Which churches, denominations, groups etc don't believe in predestination?

The Catholic Church permits a range of views on the subject of predestination, but there are certain points on which it is firm: “God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end” (CCC 1037). It also rejects the idea of unconditional election, stating that when God “establishes his eternal plan of ‘predestination,’ he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace” (CCC 600).

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Predestination and free will are parallel truths. Just like my cat does not understand nuclear physics nor calculus, some things we humans have to take on faith due to our limited intelligence and capacity to understand things. I know E = mcsquared but I dont' have a clue how you can take a ton of uranium and turn it into enough explosive force to level a city or an entire state. I accept that my mind is limited and I will never understand how Einstein came up with such an idea. A real problem that becomes a stumbling block is some people think they literally "know it all" and as the highest level of the current earthy food chain, think nothing is too complex for them to understand. Who can really comprehend that space and time had a beginning in the world of science? That everyone leaped out of the "God particle" at once? And why such a particle chose when it did and not later or earlier to detonate? Of course for me, it is simpler to believe Creation ex nihilo (out of nothing God created everything). Otherwise, you have an uncaused cause known as the Big Bang. Occam's razor tells me that the answer with the least number of assumptions is generally true, so I find it takes a lot more faith to believe in an uncaused cause known as the Big Bang than it takes to believe in God creating the world out of nothing.