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Demonology

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by GoldenKingGaze, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    I thought they would have lost their bodies in battles with angels of light. And they now are disembodied spirits, some unclean spirits who miss the flesh and seek people to inhabit to live out their vices.

    So Far, I am persuaded that fallen angels are different to demons.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    There is no text in scripture about anyone "losing their bodies" while living as far as I know.

    Where does that idea come from?

    demons are fallen angels - as Rev 12 reminds us Satan is the devil -- his former name was Lucifer.

    "Satan and his angels" Rev 12:7 -- are fallen angels
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    the devil
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Lucifer "contained" evil spirits? ?? never found a text to confirm that. Not sure where that comes from.
    "Fallen angels AND demons" is not a phrase you will ever find in scripture because they are the same thing
     
  4. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    As I quoted above, he called that old serpent the Devil in Revelation.

    Unclean spirits in the Gospel have no bodies.

    I read in a Pentecostal study that fallen angels are disembodied. This may have been after the rebellion in Heaven.
     
  5. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    Scripture does not mention "fallen angels" but maybe "demons", or instead, "spirits".

    Revelations mentions a frog coming from the mouth of an evil spirit.

    If a person can be possessed by a spirit, a spirit can join a spirit and become stronger.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Jude 1
    6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

    "Satan and his angels" Rev 12:7 -- are fallen angels
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    No it says that unclean spirits like frogs came out of the mouth of the dragon, beast and false prophet.

    It is in Rev 16:13 and is one of the 7 last plagues.

    Rev 16, --7 last plagues
    Rev 19 -- second coming
    Rev 20 -- 1000 year millennium . starts at 2nd coming. ends at resurrection of the wicked and Great White Throne Judgment
    Rev 21 - new heavens and new earth
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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  7. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    I like my thread, it helps me study scripture.

    The frog entity was an aid to the dragon.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    And that is the main point of these forum threads - we all can add to our Bible notes that we keep in our computer files and be better informed for any given topic.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Yep - the dragon, beast and false prophet have a connection with the unclean spirits and those spirits "like frogs" go out to deceive all the government of the whole earth so those governments will send armies for the battle of Armageddon
     
  10. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    That's bad logic all around. You base a conclusion on what is not said (which can be used to defend a wide variety of falsehoods). At the time that scriptures were written the prevailing idea was that demons were not fallen angels. Demons do not, in fact, behave like angels of any sort: whereas angels come and go as they please, demons show a distinct anchoring to people and things. The idea that fallen angels and demons are the same thing comes from nowhere, it does not trace its roots back to anything. Someone, somewhere, invented the idea, and people echoed it until it sounded believable.
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † CF Senior Ambassador Supporter

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    Angels (and demons) are part of the spiritual order of things. They do not have "bodies" in the same sense as we do - made up of "the dust of the earth".

    Angels can be manifested and so seen by us, when it suits God's purpose. They can be heard by us (when God wills) and can physically affect matter - so God can send them to literally rescue us from physical harm.

    Remember when Elisha prayed that the servant's eyes be opened and then he could see the multitude of angels? They are there, they are real, but are normally not seen by us because they are part of the SPIRITUAL realm rather than the corporeal/physical things we see with our eyes and which we accept as "real" because our physical bodies make us a part of that physical realm.

    Mankind was the highest created physical being. We were intended to be priests over creation. We alone possess the kind of soul/spirit that can commune with God, and we were supposed to be a sort of bridge to elevate the created world to God, if Adam had not fallen and failed at that role (which Christ became incarnate as a physical man and later reversed the curse of death). This is why all of creation fell under the curse of death along with Adam's sin.

    It wasn't a punishment - it was a natural consequence. The "priestly" humans severed their close connection with God - the very Source of Life - so they could no longer elevate creation to God. But mankind was intended for that "high priestly" role.

    But Christ became flesh, and became THE great High Priest - so that in eternity all things can be reconciled to God and set right. He saved not only mankind, but made the way for all of creation to one day be restored - a new heaven and a new earth.

    This is all part of why we don't see angels, normally, and the reason we call them "bodiless powers" - though they exist and are real, it is not with the same corporeal bodies we possess.
     
  12. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    God (Father and the Son's nature is spoken of; Holy Ghost/Spirit's nature is a mystery)and Angels (Heavenly or Unclean (fallen, aka devils)) are material beings (having bodies Celestial (Heavenly); 1 Corinthians 15:35-44, a "spiritual body", NOT a "spirit-body" which is a scriptural contradiction in terms (see Luke 24:39), and is spiritism/occultism). Lucifer fell from Heaven, being cast out:

    Isa_14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    Luk_10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

    The Heavenly hosts, the Angels which remained loyal and obedient to God (Psalms 103:20), are beings of the Heavenly worlds (Hebrews 1:2, 11:3), that needed not repentance:

    Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
    Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
    Mat 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
    Mat 18:13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

    Luk 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
    Luk 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
    Luk 15:6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
    Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

    That is not what scripture says and is actually spiritualism (satanic). The Father is not a perfume, not an aethereal essence (like a perfume) pervading the universe.

    Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

    He, the Father, is a "Person", even His person (Job 13:8; Hebrews 1:3), of which Jesus (the Son) is the "express image" of.

    As for the rest, see "His person" (Job 13:8); "form of God" (Philippians 2:6), "shape" (John 5:37), "image" (Genesis 1:26,27; Hebrews 1:3), "likeness" (Genesis 1:26,27), "being" (Acts 17:28), has a very real movable "Throne" on which He sits (Daniel 7:9-10; Revelation 4-5, &c), has "the hair of his head like the pure wool" (Daniel 7:9), "whose garment was white as snow" (Daniel 7:9), has a "right hand" (Revelation 5:1; Acts 7:55-56), able to be looked upon, "to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (Revelation 4:2), having His own "nature" (Galatians 4:8).

    See also "back parts" (Exodus 33:23), and even a "divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4), see also "under his feet" (Exodus 24:20).

    The angels are also called 'spirits' and "persons" ("fellows"; Hebrews 1:9), "young man" (Mark 16:5; Daniel 9:21; &c), and yet have real celestial (Heavenly) "bodies" with unfallen angelic "flesh" (1 Corinthians 15:35-58; Jude 1:7, Genesis 17-19, &c) an unfallen heavenly "nature" (Hebrews 2:16), where as we have bodies terrestrial (dust).

    The Son is also a "person" (Hebrews 1:3; 2 Corinthians 2:10; Matthew 27:24; Deuteronomy 27:25; &c).

    So is the Holy Ghost (John 14:16; &c)

    Mankind are also called 'spirits' (1 Peter 3:19; Hebrews 12:23) and yet are real tangible beings, with bodies (made of dust).

    Philippians 2:6; Daniel 3:25; Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10-11; Psalms 18:9; John 5:37; Exodus 33:23,20,22; Daniel 7:9-10,13; Ezekiel 1:1,8,26-28; Acts 7:55-56; Psalms 24:1-10; John 20:17; 1 Peter 3:22; Matthew 18:10; Revelation 1:13-20, 2:1, 4:1-11, 5:1-14; Hebrews 1:13; Colossians 1:3-6; Numbers 12:8; Isaiah 45:23, 48:3; Revelation 3:16; Psalms 89:34; Psalms 104:33, 146:2; Acts 17:28; Genesis 1:26-27; Colossians 1:15; &c.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  13. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    Consider this brief study (more on angels in a minute):

    "... PERSONALITY OF GOD

    MAN was made in the image of God. "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him." Gen.i,26,27. See also chap.ix,6; 1Cor.xi,7. Those who deny the personality of God, say that "image" here does not mean physical form, but moral image, and they make this the grand starting point to prove the immortality of all men. The argument stands thus: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is an immortal being. Third, therefore all men are immortal. But this mode of reasoning would also prove man omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, and thus clothe mortal man with all the attributes of the deity. Let us try it: First, man was made in God's moral image. Second, God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Third, therefore, man is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. That which proves too much, proves nothing to the point, therefore the position that the image of God means his moral image, cannot be sustained. As proof that God is a person, read his own words to Moses: "And the Lord said, Behold there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock; and it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by. And I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see my [2] back parts; but my face shall not be seen." Ex.xxxiii,21-23. See also chap.xxiv,9-11. Here God tells Moses that he shall see his form. To say that God made it appear to Moses that he saw his form, when he has no form, is charging God with adding to falsehood a sort of juggling deception upon his servant Moses. {1861 JW, PERGO 1.1}

    But the skeptic thinks he sees a contradiction between verse 11, which says that the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, and verse 20, which states that Moses could not see his face. But let Num.xii,5-8 remove the difficulty. "And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam, and they both came forth. And he said, Hear now my words. If there be a prophet among you, I, the Lord, will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently." {1861 JW, PERGO 2.1}

    The great and dreadful God came down, wrapped in a cloud of glory. This cloud could be seen, but not the face which possesses more dazzling brightness than a thousand suns. Under these circumstances Moses was permitted to draw near and converse with God face to face, or mouth to mouth, even apparently. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.2}

    Says the prophet Daniel, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hairs of his head like the pure wool; his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Chap.vii,9. "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him, and [3] there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom." Verses 13, 14. {1861 JW, PERGO 2.3}

    Here is a sublime description of the action of two personages; viz, God the Father, and his Son Jesus Christ. Deny their personality, and there is not a distinct idea in these quotations from Daniel. In connection with this quotation read the apostle's declaration that the Son was in the express image of his Father's person. "God, who at sundry times, and in divers manners, spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person." Heb.i,1-3. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.1}

    We here add the testimony of Christ. "And the Father himself which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." John v,37. See also Phil.ii,6. To say that the Father has not a personal shape, seems the most pointed contradiction of plain scripture terms.

    OBJECTION. - "God is a Spirit." John iv,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.2}

    ANSWER. - Angels are also spirits [Ps.civ,4], yet those that visited Abram and Lot, lay down, ate, and took hold of Lot's hand. They were spirit beings. So is God a Spirit being. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.3}

    OBJ. - God is everywhere. Proof. Ps.cxxxix,1-8. He is as much in every place as in any one place. {1861 JW, PERGO 3.4}

    ANS. - 1. God is everywhere by virtue of his omniscience, as will be seen by the very words of David referred to above. Verses 1-6. "O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my down-sitting and mine uprising; thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a [4] word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thy hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is high; I cannot attain unto it." {1861 JW, PERGO 3.5}

    2. God is everywhere by virtue of his Spirit, which is his representative, and is manifested wherever he pleases, as will be seen by the very words the objector claims, referred to above. Verses 7-10. "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." {1861 JW, PERGO 4.1}

    God is in heaven. This we are taught in the Lord's prayer. "Our Father which art in heaven." Matt.vi,9; Luke xi,2. But if God is as much in every place as he is in any one place, then heaven is also as much in every place as it is in any one place, and the idea of going to heaven is all a mistake. We are all in heaven; and the Lord's prayer, according to this foggy theology simply means, Our Father which art everywhere, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth, as it is everywhere. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.2}

    Again, Bible readers have believed that Enoch and Elijah were really taken up to God in heaven. But if God and heaven be as much in every place as in any one place, this is all a mistake. They were not translated. And all that is said about the chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and the attending whirlwind to take Elijah up into heaven, was a useless parade. They only evaporated, and a misty vapor passed through the entire universe. This is all of Enoch and Elijah that the mind can possibly grasp, admitting that God and heaven are [5] no more in any one place than in every place. But it is said of Elijah that he "went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2Kings ii,11. And of Enoch it is said that he "walked with God, and was not, for God took him." Gen.v,24. {1861 JW, PERGO 4.3}

    Jesus is said to be on the right hand of the Majesty on high." Heb.i,3. "So, then, after the Lord had spoken unto them he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Mark xvi,19. But if heaven be everywhere, and God everywhere, then Christ's ascension up to heaven, at the Father's right hand, simply means that he went everywhere! He was only taken up where the cloud hid him from the gaze of his disciples, and then evaporated and went everywhere! So that instead of the lovely Jesus, so beautifully described in both Testaments, we have only a sort of essence dispersed through the entire universe. And in harmony with this rarified theology, Christ's second advent, or his return, would be the condensation of this essence to some locality, say the mount of Olivet! Christ arose from the dead with a physical form. "He is not here," said the angel, "for he is risen as he said." Matt.xxviii,6. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.1}

    "And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail! And they came and held him by the feet, and they worshiped him." Verse 9. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.2}

    "Behold my hands and my feet," said Jesus to those who stood in doubt of his resurrection, "that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honey-comb, and he took it and did eat before them." Luke xxiv,39-43. {1861 JW, PERGO 5.3} [6]

    After Jesus addressed his disciples on the mount of Olivet, he was taken up from them, and a cloud received him out of their sight. "And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts i,9-11. J. W. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.1}

    IMMATERIALITY

    THIS is but another name for nonentity. It is the negative of all things and beings - of all existence. There is not one particle of proof to be advanced to establish its existence. It has no way to manifest itself to any intelligence in heaven or on earth. Neither God, angels, nor men could possibly conceive of such a substance, being, or thing. It possesses no property or power by which to make itself manifest to any intelligent being in the universe. Reason and analogy never scan it, or even conceive of it. Revelation never reveals it, nor do any of our senses witness its existence. It cannot be seen, felt, heard, tasted, or smelled, even by the strongest organs, or the most acute sensibilities. It is neither liquid nor solid, soft nor hard - it can neither extend nor contract. In short, it can exert no influence whatever - it can neither act nor be acted upon. And even if it does exist, it can be of no possible use. It possesses no one, desirable property, faculty, or use, yet, strange to say, immateriality is the modern Christian's God, his anticipated heaven, his immortal self - his all! {1861 JW, PERGO 6.2}

    O sectarianism! O atheism!! O annihilation!!! [7]

    who can perceive the nice shades of difference between the one and the other? They seem alike, all but in name. The atheist has no God. The sectarian has a God without body or parts. Who can define the difference? For our part we do not perceive a difference of a single hair; they both claim to be the negative of all things which exist - and both are equally powerless and unknown. {1861 JW, PERGO 6.3}

    The atheist has no after life, or conscious existence beyond the grave. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial, like his God; and without body or parts. Here again both are negative, and both arrive at the same point. Their faith and hope amount to the same; only it is expressed by different terms. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.1}

    Again, the atheist has no heaven in eternity. The sectarian has one, but it is immaterial in all its properties, and is therefore the negative of all riches and substances. Here again they are equal, and arrive at the same point. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.2}

    As we do not envy them the possession of all they claim, we will now leave them in the quiet and undisturbed enjoyment of the same, and proceed to examine the portion still left for the despised materialist to enjoy. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.3}

    What is God? He is material, organized intelligence, possessing both body and parts. Man is in his image. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.4}

    What is Jesus Christ? He is the Son of God, and is like his Father, being "the brightness of his Father's glory, and the express image of his person." He is a material intelligence, with body, parts, and passions; possessing immortal flesh and immortal bones. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.5}

    What are men? They are the offspring of Adam. They are capable of receiving intelligence and exaltation to such a degree as to be raised from the dead with a body like that of Jesus Christ, [8] and to possess immortal flesh and bones. Thus perfected, they will possess the material universe, that is, the earth, as their "everlasting inheritance." With these hopes and prospects before us, we say to the Christian world who hold to immateriality, that they are welcome to their God - their life - their heaven, and their all. They claim nothing but that which we throw away; and we claim nothing but that which they throw away. Therefore, there is no ground for quarrel or contention between us. {1861 JW, PERGO 7.6}

    We choose all substance - what remains
    The mystical sectarian gains;
    All that each claims, each shall possess,
    Nor grudge each other's happiness.

    An immaterial God they choose,
    For such a God we have no use;
    An immaterial heaven and hell,
    In such a heaven we cannot dwell.

    We claim the earth, the air, and sky,
    And all the starry worlds on high;
    Gold, silver, ore, and precious stones,
    And bodies made of flesh and bones.

    Such is our hope, our heaven, our all,
    When once redeemed from Adam's fall;
    All things are ours, and we shall be,
    The Lord's to all eternity. {1861 JW, PERGO 8.1} ..." - Personality of God, by James Springer White, 1861, pages 1.1 - 8.1
     
  14. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    You can find an entire study on Angels here - The word “angel” as defined and used (PDF)

    The Angels of Heaven [from Genesis to Revelation, while some things are symbolic, context determines] are always depicted as have the:

    “similitude of the sons of men” [Daniel 10:16 KJB],

    “the likeness of a man” [Daniel 10:16 KJB],

    “like the appearance of a man” [Daniel 10:18 KJB],

    looking like “men” [Genesis 18:2 KJB],

    having that like the “hands of a man” [Ezekiel 1:8, 10:21 KJB],

    a “hand” [Ezekiel 2:9; Daniel 10:10 KJB],

    “fingers of a man's hand” [Daniel 5:5 KJB],

    “bear thee up in [their] hands” [Psalms 91:12 KJB] or “hands they shall bear thee up” [Matthew 4:6 KJB],

    “touched” [Daniel 8:18, 9:21 KJB],

    “the face of a man” [Ezekiel 1:10, 10:14, 41:19 KJB],

    “fell … on their faces” [Revelation 7:11 KJB],

    “countenance was like lightning” [Matthew 28:3 KJB],

    “their appearance [was] like burning coals of fire, [and] like the appearance of lamps” [Ezekiel 1:13 KJB],

    “young man” [Mark 16:5 KJB],

    and man-kind are “made ... a little lower than the angels” [Psalms 8:5 KJB],

    “bodies” [Ezekiel 1:11,23; 1 Corinthians 15:40 KJB],

    “feet” [and legs] [Genesis 18:4, 19:2; Exodus 24:10; 2 Samuel 22:10; Psalms 18:9; Isaiah 6:2; Lamentations 3:34; Ezekiel 1:7; Daniel 10:6; Habakkuk 3:5; Zechariah 14:4; Revelation 1:5, 2:18, 10:1, 19:10, 22:8 KJB],

    “sole of their feet” [Ezekiel 1:7 KJB],

    “eyes” [Deuteronomy 11:12, 13:18; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Job 34:21; Psalms 11:4; Ezekiel 1:18, 10:12; Daniel 10:6; Hebrews 4:13; Revelation 1:14, 2:18, 4:6,8, 5:6, 19:12 KJB],

    “do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven” [Matthew 18:10 KJB],

    “breasts” [ie, upper chest/torso] [Revelation 15:6 KJB],

    “voices” [Revelation 4:5, 8:5, 10:3-4, 11:15,19, 16:18 KJB],

    “the voice of many angels round about the throne” [Revelation 5:11 KJB],

    “sang together” [Job 38:7 KJB],

    “shouted for joy” [Job 38:7 KJB],

    that “talked” [Zechariah 5:5 KJB],

    able to “Hail” [Luke 1:28 KJB],

    and have “wings” [Exodus 25:20, 37:9; 2 Samuel 22:11; 1 Kings 6:27, 8:6-7; 1 Chronicles 28:18; 2 Chronicles 3:11,13, 5:7-8; Psalms 18:10, 104:3; Isaiah 6:2; Ezekiel 1:6,8-9,11,23-25, 3:13, 10:8,12,16,19,21, 11:22; Revelation 4:8 KJB],

    “fly swiftly” [Daniel 9:21 KJB],

    and being able to carry a “sword” [Genesis 3:24; Numbers 22:31; Joshua 5:13; 1 Chronicles 21:16 KJB],

    or having “a slaughter weapon in his hand” [Ezekiel 9:2 KJB],

    able to “smote” [2 Kings 19:35 KJB],

    and “cut off” [2 Chronicles 32:21 KJB],

    and “fought” [Revelation 12:7 KJB],

    make “war” [Revelation 12:7 KJB, see also 2 Kings 6:16-17 KJB],

    “encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them” [Psalms 34:7 KJB],

    “an hedge” [Job 1:10 KJB],

    they are strong, “that excel in strength” [Psalms 103:20 KJB],

    “strengthening” [Luke 22:43 KJB],

    able to do, “that do his commandments” [Psalms 103:20 KJB],

    listening, “hearkening unto the voice of his word” [Psalms 103:20 KJB],

    or carrying a “writer's ink horn by his side” [Ezekiel 9:2 KJB],

    have “food” [Psalms 78:25 KJB],

    can be “entertained” [Hebrews 13:2 KJB],

    and “harps” [Revelation 5:8 KJB],

    “live coal” [Isaiah 6:6 KJB],

    “tongs” [Isaiah 6:6 KJB],

    “vials” [Revelation 5:8, 15:7, 16:1, 17:1, 21:9 KJB],

    “golden censer” [Revelation 8:3 KJB],

    “golden reed” [Revelation 21:5 KJB],

    wearing “golden girdles” [Revelation 15:6 KJB],

    having “incense” [Revelation 8:3 KJB],

    “trumpet/s” [Exodus 19:13,16,19, 20:18; Psalms 47:5, 150:3; Zechariah 9:14; Matthew 24:31; 1 Corinthians 15:52; Hebrews 12:19; Revelation 8:2,6,13, 9:14 KJB [consider also in the context of Jesus' voice; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 1:10, 4:1 KJB]],

    “sickle” [Revelation 14:14-19 KJB],

    and even a “book” [scroll] [Exodus 32:32-33; Psalms 69:28, 139:16; Ezekiel 2:9; Daniel 12:1; Malachi 3:16; Philippians 4:3; Revelation 3:5, 5:1-5, 7-9, 10:2,8-10, 13:8, 17:8, 20:12,15, 21:27 KJB],

    and are able to “speak” [“said”] [Ezekiel 2:1; Acts 5:19-20 KJB] [devils/angels throughout, examples; Genesis 18 and 19; Matthew 4:1-11, 8:29; Mark 3:11; Luke 4:1-13, etc. KJB],

    devils and Satan “speaketh a lie” [John 8:44 KJB],

    “tongues … of angels” [1 Corinthians 13:31 KJB],

    Paul having heard “unspeakable words” [2 Corinthians 12:4 KJB],

    “sat” [Judges 6:11; Matthew 28:2 KJB],

    and are found “sitting” [John 20:12 KJB],

    being able to “stand” [1 Chronicles 21:16; Luke 1:19; Revelation 10:5 KJB],

    and “stood” [Ezekiel 9:2; Acts 1:10 KJB],

    and “all the angels stood round about the throne” [Revelation 7:11 KJB],

    seen “standing” [Numbers 22:31 KJB],

    able to “touched” [1 Kings 19:5,7 KJB],

    held “the staff that [was] in his hand” [Judges 6:21 KJB],

    “ministers” [Psalms 103:21 KJB],

    “minister[ed]” [Matthew 4:11; Hebrews 1:14, 8:2 KJB],

    found “ministering” [Psalms 104:4; Hebrews 1:7 KJB],

    “clothed with linen” [Ezekiel 9:2,3,11, 10:2,6,7; Daniel 10:5 KJB],

    “stood by them in white apparel” [Acts 1:10 KJB],

    “clothed in a long white garment” [Mark 16:5 KJB],

    “clothed in white raiment” [Revelation 4:4 KJB],

    “in white sitting” [John 20:12 KJB],

    the “four and twenty elders” having “on their heads crowns of gold” [Revelation 4:4 KJB],

    or even “clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles” [Revelation 15:6 KJB],

    and they “worship” [Exodus 34:14; Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8; John 4:24; Hebrews 1:6; Revelation 4:10, 19:10 KJB],

    being able to both bow, kneel and fall before the LORD, “fell before the Throne on their faces, and worhsipped God” [Revelation 7:11 KJB],

    “present themselves before the Lord” [Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB],

    being able to “Bless the LORD” [Psalms 103:20-22 KJB],

    “praise” [Psalms 148:2 KJB],

    and even pray and cry aloud with their mouths, “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY” [Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8 KJB].

    God created the Angels as glorious beings, and they do have bodies, as Paul would say, “Celestial bodies”, for “God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him”. Just as Jesus now eternally has a “Glorious Body” [Philippians 3:21 KJB].

    Lucifer/[now satan] was the very “anointed cherub that coverth” [Ezekiel 28:14 KJB] and stood directly by the very Throne of God in Heaven [just as the imitation ones, being patterned after the heavenly ones on either side of the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant on earth] and God had dressed him [Lucifer] in precious stones and metals, “every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created” [Ezekiel 28:13 KJB] and Lucifer had once “walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire” in the “Eden the garden of God”, upon “the holy mountain of God”, being “Mount Zion” of Heaven, which “cannot be removed, [but] abideth forever”.

    Satan will be brought to “ashes” [Ezekiel 28:18; Malachi 4:3 KJB, see also the sanctuary; Psalms 73:17, 77:13 KJB] and “All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.” [Ezekiel 28:19] and “The merchants among the people shall hiss at thee; thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt be] any more.” [Ezekiel 27:36 KJB]

    The angels, like the Cherubim and Seraphim, the shining ones, are “ministering spirits” [Hebrews 1:14 KJB], called a “flaming fire” [Psalms 104:4 KJB], and “ministers a flame of fire” [Hebrews 1:7 KJB], and their “countenances” are “like lightning”, as “burning coals of fire”, and “burning lamps”, and wearing “white raiment” which are very “bright”. Even Satan can transform himself into an “angel of light” [2 Corinthians 11:14 KJB]. Does this mean that angels have no substance, no body and are merely wispy aether? Not at all. The bodies they have, are “celestial” [1 Corinthians 15:40 KJB], and those which are good, are led by the Spirit, and are thus spiritual bodies [1 Corinthians 15:44 KJB], being in subjection to God, and are not subject to death [yet the wicked angels will be soon]. Even we, as Christians, are to be “ministering spirits” also:

    Hebrews 12:23 KJB - To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
     
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  15. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    The word "spirit" is connected to the words "heart" and "mind" in scripture:

    And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD'S offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments. Ecodus 35:21

    But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him: for the LORD thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that he might deliver him into thy hand, as appeareth this day. Deuteronomy 2:30

    And it came to pass, when all the kings of the Amorites, which were on the side of Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard that the LORD had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel, until we were passed over, that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more, because of the children of Israel. Joshua 5:1

    The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Psalms 34:18

    Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Psalms 51:10

    The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalms 51:17

    I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search. Psalms 77:6

    And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God. Psalms 78:8

    Therefore is my spirit overwhelmed within me; my heart within me is desolate. Psalms 143:4

    A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken. Proverbs 15:13

    A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones. Proverbs 17:22

    And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. Ecclesiastes 1:17

    For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

    Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit. Isaiah 65:14

    And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19

    Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Ezekiel 18:31

    And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak as water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 21:17

    A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26

    And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Mark 2:8

    But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 2:29

    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

    But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 1 Peter 3:4

    And thus the "spirit" of man (or "angel"), the "heart" of man is connected with reasoning and thoughts, 1 Chronicles 28:9; Matthew 9:4; Luke 2:35, 5:22, 24:38; Romans 2:15 and so on.

    The Angels are called "ministering spirits" (Hebrews 1:14), which are "sent forth" from the actual Throne of God in Heaven (a real place and object).

    Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
    Psa 103:21 Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

    They are actual creatures, having ears, hands to serve, minds, celestial bodies. They are not aethereal beings, which again is spiritism and occultism, which teaches (OOB's, astral travel, etc). Angels are fast, but not instantaneous travellers. They have to travel distances as seen in scripture, by flying, walking, etc.

    Even the resurrection of Jesus and of the saints to come, is likened unto the bodies that angels have:

    Mat_22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    Luk_20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

    Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
     
  16. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    Most people absolutely misunderstand possession. They are deceived by hollywood. Devils do not occupy bodies (the same space) as so often seen. They control minds/hearts, as they are physical beings (having celestial flesh, a spiritual body; again NOT "spirit-body") as we are with a mind as we do (and more intelligent, Ezekiel 28:3). When the Bible uses the word "enter" and "posses" it is not like hollywood portrays. It is simply taking control of the submitted will. When they are "cast out", they are "cast out" of having control of the mind, which controls the body.

    Angels whether of Heaven or fallen (devils) are formed into legions (Matthew 26:53; Mark 5:9,15; Luke 8:30) , a military unit and have order.

    Lucifer and all the fallen angels will be destroyed by the fire to come:

    Mal_4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Mat_8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

    Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

    Rev_20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    Eze_28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Lucifer "contained" evil spirits? ?? never found a text to confirm that. Not sure where that comes from.
    "Fallen angels AND demons" is not a phrase you will ever find in scripture because they are the same thing

    If fallen angels are in fact demons then we "never expect to find" the phrase "fallen angels AND demons" in the text of scripture. If we do find it then we can know that the starting premise is in doubt.

    And on what IS said since Angels and demons are both mentioned in scripture.


    That is an assumption -- how did you prove it went beyond assumption to "proven fact"... "documented fact"??

    That is an assumption in the case of fallen angels -- how did you prove it went beyond assumption to "proven fact"... "documented fact"??

    That is an assumption in the case of fallen angels -- how did you prove it went beyond assumption to "proven fact"... "documented fact"??

    Particularly given that fallen angels are said to be "confined" in scripture as we just saw in the text.

    On the contrary it comes from Rev 12 as was just shown. Lucifer becomes Satan and Satan is the Devil in Rev 12 where we find that "Satan and his angels" are cast out --- so then what Angels does the devil have? Demons because the devil is the head of demons by definition.

    There is no support at all in scripture that fallen angels and demons are two different things. you never see any exchange happen between them as if one is not the other.
     
  18. GoldenKingGaze

    GoldenKingGaze Prevent Slavery, support the persecuted.

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    So when it comes to Genesis 6, this proves the sons of God that came down and bred tyrants, they were not fallen angels?
     
  19. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    Luk_11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

    Satan is also known as Beelzebub, the prince of (leader of) devils. Satan is also the Devil:

    Rev_12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Rev_20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    Lucifer/Satan a fallen evil lesser arch-angel, once a covering cherub:

    1 Kings 22:22 KJB - And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

    1 Kings 22:23 KJB - Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

    2 Chronicles 18:21 KJB - And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

    2 Chronicles 18:22 KJB - Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

    Job 1:6 KJB - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

    Job 1:7 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

    Job 1:8 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

    Job 1:9 KJB - Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

    Job 1:12 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

    Job 2:1 KJB - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

    Job 2:2 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

    Job 2:3 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

    Job 2:4 KJB - And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

    Job 2:6 KJB - And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

    Job 2:7 KJB - So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

    Isaiah 14:12 KJB - How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    Ezekiel 28:12 KJB - Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

    Ezekiel 28:13 KJB - Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

    Ezekiel 28:14 KJB - Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

    Ezekiel 28:15 KJB - Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

    Ezekiel 28:16 KJB - By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

    Ezekiel 28:17 KJB - Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

    Ezekiel 28:18 KJB - Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

    Ezekiel 28:19 KJB - All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

    Daniel 10:13 KJB - But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

    Daniel 10:20 KJB - Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

    Luke 10:17 KJB - And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

    Luke 10:18 KJB - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

    2 Corinthians 11:14 KJB - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    General texts on “Satan”:

    1 Chronicles 1:21; Psalms 109:6; Zechariah 3:1,2; Matthew 4:10, 12:26, 16:23; Mark 1:13,23,26, 4:15, 8:33; Luke 4:8, 11:18, 13:16, 22:3,31; John 13:27; Acts 5:3, 26:18; Romans 16:20; 1 Corinthians 5:5, 7:5; 2 Corinthians 2:11, 12:7; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:9; 1 Timothy 1:20, 5:15; Revelation 2:9,13,24, 3:9, 12:9, 20:2,7

    The “devil”:

    Matthew 4:1,5,8,11, 13:39, 25:41; Luke 4:2,3,5,6,13, 8:12; John 8:44, 13:2; Acts 10:38, 13:10; Ephesians 4:27, 6:11; 1 Timothy 3:6,7; 2 Timothy 2:26; Hebrews 2:14; James 4:7; 1 Peter 5:8; 1 John 3:8,10; Jude 1:9; Revelation 2:10, 12:9,12, 20:2,10

    The “Serpent”:

    Genesis 3:1,2,4,13,14; Isaiah 27:1; 2 Corinthians 11:3; Revelation 12:9,14,15, 20:2

    The “Dragon”:

    Isaiah 27:1, 51:9; Ezekiel 29:3; Revelation 12:3,4,7,9,13,16,17, 13:2,4,11, 16:13, 20:2

    The “Leviathan”:

    Job 41:1; Psalms 74:14, 104:26; Isaiah 27:1

    The “Wicked”:

    Matthew 13:19,38; Ephesians 6:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; 1 John 2:13,14, 3:12, 5:18

    “Baalzebub”, “Beelzebub”:

    2 Kings 1:2,3,6,16; Matthew 10:25, 12:24,27; Mark 3:22; Luke 11:15,18,19

    The “roaring lion”:

    Proverbs 28:15; 1 Peter 5:8

    The “throne of iniquity”, even “Satan's seat”, by which he rules over the children of disobedience, whether those angelic begins fallen from heaven, or those children of Adam of the earth:

    Psalms 94:20 KJB - Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?

    Revelation 2:13 KJB - I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

    Etc.

    Jude 1:6 KJB - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    The “devils”, aka fallen evil angels and lesser evil arch-angels:

    Leviticus 17:7; Deuteronomy 32:17; 2 Chronicles 11:15; Psalms 106:37; Matthew 4:24, 7:22, 8:16,28,31,33, 9:32,33,34, 10:8, 11:18, 12:22,24,27,28, 15:22, 17:18; Mark 1:32,34,39, 3:15,22, 5:12,15,16,18, 6:13, 7:26,29,30, 9:38, 16:9,17; Luke 4:35,41, 7:33, 8:2,27,30,33,35,36,38, 9:1,42,49, 10:17, 11:14,15,18,19,20, 13:32; John 6:70, 7:20, 8:48,49,52, 10:20,21; 1 Corinthians 10:20,21; 1 Timothy 4:1; James 2:19; Revelation 9:20, 16:14, 18:2

    The order of the wicked, the “Legion”:

    Mark 5:8 KJB - For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

    Mark 5:9 KJB - And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

    Mark 5:11 KJB - Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

    Mark 5:12 KJB - And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

    Mark 5:13 KJB - And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

    Mark 5:15 KJB - And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

    Luke 8:27 KJB - And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.

    Luke 8:29 KJB - (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)

    Luke 8:30 KJB - And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

    Luke 8:31 KJB - And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.

    Luke 8:32 KJB - And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.

    Luke 8:33 KJB - Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
     
  20. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring The Cross

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    No. Angels cannot procreate, neither multiply, nor have "seed", nor "marry' (as in Genesis 6, which is humanity) etc.

    The very “sons of God” who rule the unfallen worlds, as Adam [Luke 3:38 KJB], the first [1 Corinthians 15:45,46,47 KJB], on earth had [Genesis 1:26,28; Psalms 8:5 KJB] before his fall, and the angelic “morning stars”:

    Job 1:6 KJB - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    Job 2:1 KJB - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
    Job 38:4 KJB - Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding

    Job 38:5 KJB - Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    Job 38:6 KJB - Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    Job 38:7 KJB - When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Side note, none of these Job texts, in regards the “sons of God”, are dealing with the Genesis 6-9 KJB account and are not referring to created heavenly beings. Job 1:6, 2:1 KJB deals with the timeframe in a period well after the flood, and Job 38:4-7 KJB deals with the timeframe long before the flood, when the earth was created. The only texts in Job which are dealing directly with the timeframe of the flood, are Job 22:15,16,17, 26:5 KJB, and please notice it speaks of “men”.

    For more on who the “sons of God” are in Genesis 6:2,4 KJB, please see Luke 3:38; Genesis 4:26 KJB, etc., and for the daughters of men, see Genesis 4:16-24 KJB.

    See also the following for “sons”, “children”, “father” of the good, etc:

    Genesis 6:2,4; Deuteronomy 14:1; 2 Samuel 7:14; Isaiah 8:18, 9:6, 63:16, 64:8; Hosea 1:10; Matthew 5:9,45 6:9; Luke 3:38, 6:35,36, 11:2, 20:26; John 1:12, 11:52, 12:36; Romans 1:7, 8:14,16,17,19,21, 9:8, 9:26 [citing Hosea 1:10 KJB]; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2, 6:18; Galatians 1:4, 3:26, 4:6,7; Ephesians 5:1; Philippians 1:2, 2:15, 4:20; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3:11,13; 2 Thessalonians 1:1,2, 2:16; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:10,13 [citing Isaiah 8:18 KJB], 12:7,9; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 1:3, 3:1,2, 5:2.

    See also the following for the “sons”, “children”, “father” of the evil, etc.:

    Genesis 3:15; Matthew 13:38; John 8:42,44; Acts 13:10; Romans 6:16, 9:8; Ephesians 2:2, 5:6; Colossians 3:6; Hebrews 12:8; 1 Peter 3:19 [compare to Psalms 142:7; Isaiah 42:6,7, 61:1; Luke 4:18 KJB], 3:20; 1 John 3:8,10,12, 4:4,5,6,7,8.

    See the following for comparison with the Genesis 6:2,4 KJB account:

    See Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 24:3,37.

    See Esau and Jacob in Genesis 26:34,35, 28:8,9 [comparing to Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB], 36:2.

    See Isaac and Jacob in Genesis 27:46, 28:1,6 KJB.

    See Jacob and Hamor in Genesis 34:9,14 KJB.

    See Moses in Exodus 34:15,16 KJB.

    See in Deuteronomy 17:17 KJB.

    See Balaam in Numbers 25:1,2,3 KJB.

    See in Judges 3:5,6,7 KJB.

    See Samson the Judge in Judges 14:1,2,3 KJB.

    See the Chronicles in 1 Chronicles 5:24,25 KJB.

    See Ezra in Ezra 9:1,2,11,12 KJB.

    See Nehemiah in Nehemiah 9:2, 10:28,29,30, 13:23,25,26,27 KJB.

    See Solomon in 1 Kings 11:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 KJB.

    Many “Sons of God” “looked”/“saw” [“saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair” and “took them wives of all which they chose” [Genesis 6:2 KJB]] and "beheld" [Just as did Samson, “she pleaseth me well”, or King David who went after Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite and his friend, through covetousness had Uriah killed in action “from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman [was] very beautiful to look upon” [2 Samuel 11:2, 12:9 KJB] and Solomon who “multiplied wives” and “loved many strange women” and all Israel who took of the “daughters of the land”], and then “lusted and coveted” and so were ensnared being “Vex[ed], Beguiled, To Commit Trespass Against The LORD, Commit Fornication, Eat things sacrificed unto Idols, worshipped idols” [Numbers 25:18, 31:16; Revelation 2:14 KJB]:

    Jude 1:11 KJB - Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

    See also the words of Jesus, as it was in the days of Noah and Lot:

    Job 21:7,14, 22:15,16,17; Matthew 24:37,38; Luke 17:26,27; 2 Peter 2:5, 3:3,6.

    In the greater overall picture there is a like message and call for the “people of God” also today to “come out” of “Spiritual Babylon” [just as God had done with physical Babylon; Jeremiah 51:9; Isaiah 52:11 KJB] that “great Whore” [Revelation 17:1, 19:2 KJB]:

    See 2 Corinthians 6:14,15,16,17,18; Revelation 18:4 KJB.

    For “giants” of men, after the flood, see:

    Genesis 10:8,9, 14:5, 15:20; Numbers 13:32,33; Deuteronomy 2:11,20,21, 3:11,13, 9:2; Joshua 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2 Samuel 5:18,22, 21:16,18,19,20,22; 1 Chronicles 11:23, 14:9, 20:4,5,6; Isaiah 17:5, 45:14

    For “men of reknown” see:

    Numbers 1:16, 16:2, 26:9; 1 Chronicles 5:24, 12:30

    For more specific details see the Sons of God article.

    Isaiah 14:13 KJB - For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    Dualistic texts, for godly men [whose names written in heaven] and angelic beings [who physically are in/from heaven]:

    Psalm 29:1 KJB - [[A Psalm of David.]] Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, give unto the LORD glory and strength.

    Psalms 89:6 KJB - For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?


    However, before considering the immediate context, let us look and see why the term "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2,4 cannot be referring to the "Holy Angels" of the LORD [those 2/3 who had remained loyal]:

    These Angels (the loyal "angels" [they of the created heavenly host], like Gabriel ("that stand in the presence of God" Luke 1:19)) keep the Commandments of God and hearken to His voice did not leave their "first estate" (Jude 1:6), their arch-office positions, as did those who rebelled; 'the cast-out angels' [Satan and his ilk] [Jude 1:6] and therefore the passages cannot be referring to them in the least:

    Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

    The term "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2,4 also cannot be referring to any of the "rebellious" cast-out angels [those 1/3 who rebelled with Satan/Lucifer] either, for nowhere in all of scripture, are they ever said to be able to procreate, generate; and neither are "fruitful" (Genesis 1:28, 9:1), or able to "bring forth abundantly" (Genesis 9:7), nor are able to "multiply" (Genesis 1:28, 9:1), neither have any "seed" (Genesis 1:11,12,29, 3:15, 4:25) to bring forth "fruit" (Genesis 1:11,12,29, 30:2), since angels are not made of "earthly" (2 Corinthians 5:1), that is to say, "terrestrial" (1 Corinthians 15:40) materials, but instead of "celestial" or Heavenly (not of this earth) (1 Corinthians 15:40) ones. If someone says otherwise, the burden of proof now lies with them, and they need to produce the exact and specific texts (in the mouth of two or three witnesses) that are explicit, otherwise they have lost their position before it even began, no matter how many other words come out of their mouths (which is nothing but the fallacy of "smoke screen").

    Let's begin with a few points:

    [1] Hebrews 2:16 (For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.), reveals that 'the angelic hosts' [the created beings of Heaven], presently do not have the same "nature"/"flesh" ("strange (hetero/foreign/differing) flesh (sarx/nature)" Jude 1:7) as humans do now (as Jesus also stated; Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25), and are not the same "kind" as human "kind", which are both "male" and "female". A "kind" on earth ("terrestrial"; 1 Corinthians 15:40), having an "earthly" (2 Corinthians 5:1) nature, can only reproduce after its "kind", for this is the Law of "flesh", the Law of Heredity (Galatians 4:4) and "seed" from the beginning:

    Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

    Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

    Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
     
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