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demon deliverance from another POV

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by lutherangerman, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. lutherangerman

    lutherangerman Senior Member

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    Hello again,

    I wanted to discuss what is the best way to see demons and their oppression and ways how to get rid of them. I found there are many misconceptions about demons and their works and how the church deals with them. Often people who have the problems have issues and everything is blamed on occult sins they would have fallen into and would have given the demons a right to stay. But this is often untrue. Just because you've read your horoscope doesn't mean you opened a door to demons.

    In fact satan enjoys to oppress whom he can oppress, in order simply to do evil and furthen his "empire". He preys on weak people and demons only want to suppress you. Most of the time those with mental illness live alone and cannot get their life together, they get lonely and have no helper. That's what satan sees and wants to oppress them. He doesn't need to wait for these people to open up to occult sins.

    And in the bible there is nothing that connects demons to sins. In the whole new testament Jesus never critisizes possessed people with sin, not even the demoniac with the legion of demons in him. They did nothing wrong, in fact religion is to be blamed that had no faith and experience with God to help the afflicted.

    When I had a demon I simply went to my pastor. He put his hands on me and blessed me and prayed for me for quarter an hour and in the following summer I got healed. Satan is an awful entity and Jesus is fully shining love light compared to satan. God didn't build laws that we would break and become subjects of demons. Research of other religions is important. Sins are forgiven, that's why Jesus came to us to bring us this grace. Grace, Grace, Grace is key. With God we can be who we are, which is imperfect people, and sin means estrangement from God, mankind, and yourself...
     
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  2. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    God has given those in Christ power over demons or spirits of darkness.
    You do not need a man or a prayer .
    All you need is the authority in the name of Jesus.
    Resist the Devil and he will flee.
    The power in in the Spirit of those in Christ who walk according to his will.
     
  3. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The only answer I know is to be a Christian and to walk as closely with Jesus as one can.
     
  4. Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

    Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 Active Member

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    If you want see demon possesed people , just go to any busy street corner , start preaching gospel , most people will ignore you and walk pass by , few will listen to you maybe few laugh at you , but there will be 1-2 people that day who will try to attack you that's how you can check unclean spirits yourself .
     
  5. lutherangerman

    lutherangerman Senior Member

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    Faith Alone, I wouldn't blame people's anger on demons. We are able to produce all that anger by ourselves and that's also how the bible speaks about it. The pharisees were not said to have been demon possessed. The demoniacs were outcasts and like sick people, and Jesus didn't preach against them at all, he just helped them. When I was still an atheist I remember how easy it seemed to evade God and christianity. I didn't see God knocking at my door, and I didn't knock on his door either. And some of people's anger at christians comes from legitimate problems in our faith. Not everyone of us really is a Bonhoeffer who was caring for non-christians as much as for christians themselves. We cannot create our alternate reality and go playing, we are put into the world to spread Jesus Christ and forgiveness, grace and love...
     
  6. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    Jesus has the authority to forgive sins and the authority to cast out demons. He said He did not come to condemn the world but to save the world. (John 12:47)

    The Bible has not explained how those demon-possessed people got possessed, but we do know that there is limitation in what demons are allowed to do to people unless people give them permission to; otherwise, we will see many more demon-possessed people than what we see now. Keep in mind that even Satan needed to seek permission from God before attacking Job.

    There are different degrees of demonic oppression and different ways that could open up a person to be more vulnerable to demonic attacks, be it oppression or possession. Occult connection is just one of them. Mental illness could also be a result of demonic oppression instead of being the cause of it.

    Since demons have their own free will, and are neither omnipresent nor omniscient, it is not the case that every time you try to call upon them or read your horoscope, they would immediately come. But indulging in any occult practice over a prolonged period of time could potentially invite the stronger type of demons into your life. Resentment and bitterness due to unforgiveness, willful and habitual sin over a long period of time would also give demons foothold for oppression. The link below lists 13 specific areas of which demons would take advantage to come after a person:

    Legal Rights of Demons - How to Deal With Them

    Having said that, devote Christians who walk with God and live a holy life that are led by the Holy Spirit could also at times find demons following them especially after they have done something that have threatened the demons, but they can easily cast them away in the name of Jesus Christ. So how close you are to God and how much you have submitted yourself to God and led by the Holy Spirit does matter in terms of how much foothold you have given the demons excuses to stay.

    Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun set on your anger, and do not leave room for the devil. (Ephesians 4:26-27)
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2017
  7. lutherangerman

    lutherangerman Senior Member

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    This is all speculation and not based on the bible. Nowhere in the entire New Testament does someone speak of doors or in-ways for demons being created by people's sins. The demoniac of Gazarene with the legion of demons in him wasn't spoken forgiveness to. I'm sorry, but I think that satan simply has some powers and that he has a wicked heart and wants to harm weak or sensitive people.

    I've also had a demon in me too. The thing is that when you have such a demon in you, you cannot free yourself. Rebuking doesn't work if you do it yourself. Then I went to my mother and she timidly chided the demon and he left for an entire week. Then I went to my pastor and he prayed for me and blessed me and voila, I got free. And I did not have anything occult on me.

    The second time I had this I freed myself with videos from youtube. I found deliverance sessions where the occult wasn't mentioned at all and prayer videos and catholic prayers to Michael and Raphael, the archangels. With these behind me I got free again too.

    I think it is the false work of teachers like Derek Prince where the sin imprisonment scheme comes from. But that's only legalism and not based on true principles that would be at work. It's enough that satan has some power and that he is wicked. No need to presume a cooperation between him and God in terms of old jewish laws.
     
  8. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem like you have read my post properly and understand what I am saying, or even read the link I quoted. As I said, the Bible has not mentioned the cause of demon oppression/possession but only how Jesus and His disciples cast demons out. And I didn't say occult is the only cause for demon oppression/possession, I said it is one of the causes. And it is not based on speculation, but is based on what I witnessed, what I heard, what I have known from real people, my personal experience and the experience of other pastors who have extensive experience in dealing with demon-possessed people and demon deliverance.

    I don't know you personally and your past history other than going through some of your old posts. Didn't you mention in one of the other threads that you made a lucifer dance and since then you had dark influence?

    Every demon-possession case I have heard had a cause that traces back to what led to the possession. Some are due to trying to seek demonic power without knowing that the power comes from demons.

    Also, there is a difference between demons attacking you from the outside, which you can easily cast them away in Jesus' name, and demon possession when demons are already inside you and have control over your mind, when you would need external help.

    Here is a testimony of a former witch who had 47 demons in her due to sins and due to her connection with the occult:

    Christian Testimonies - From witchcraft to Christ
     
  9. lutherangerman

    lutherangerman Senior Member

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    As a personally afflicted person, I have to say that most of this is wrong. First of all, we are under grace, not under law, and demons have no legal right to dwell in someone at all. They are all breaking all kinds of law and don't care one bit. They simply come to us and if someone of us is weak or spiritually sick already, they oppress him.

    My lucifer dance is a good example. The demon did not get into me back then, he got into me because I had quickly repented of the satanic in that time and tried to connect to God. Demons hate god and Christ and when they can they try to hinder his work. What do you expect of beings that stem from a murderer and liar?

    Jesus Christ actually rebuked people for not having the faith to cast out demons. He called the lazy and foolish people faithless and perverse that they could not cast out demons. Like I said in my example, my mother chiding the demon was enough, and the pastor praying for me was enough. But instead of faithfully doing this christianity is concocting Derek Prince teachings heavily influenced by the literally understood mosaic code. This all has no basis in the bible, and it's nowhere mentioned inside of it.

    Again, we get demon oppressed because demons and satan are evil people and because those of us who are spiritually strong do not care to help and instead have fallen into satan's lies about legal rights and such gaga. satan breaks all rules, that's why he is evil. Understand that!
     
  10. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    Demons have no legal rights to dwell in someone unless the person gives them permission. That's what I have been saying all along. But knowing that or not has nothing to do with whether people care to help.

    As much as Satan is a murderer and the father of lies, he cannot do anything outside of the limit God has set upon him. Job is a good example:

    The Lord said to the satan, “Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on him.” So the satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. (Job 1:12)

    And the Lord said to the satan, “He is in your power; only spare his life.” So the satan went forth from the presence of the Lord and struck Job with severe boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. (Job 2:6-7)

    I have never read Derek Prince, but in reality, there are plenty of examples where people got possessed after channeling spirits via different means. Here's just one out of the many:

    Young girl ‘possessed by the devil’
     
  11. lutherangerman

    lutherangerman Senior Member

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    So you do not think that satan breaks rules? But how can he be a liar and murderer if he would not break the rules that we may not lie and kill? Sorry, but that's wrong.

    It's good that you never read Derek Prince. He assumes demons behind everything in his books. And it's always old testament laws he speaks about. Of course witchcraft and the occult things are sinful, but that's got nothing to say about demons obeying these laws. In fact they cause the witchcraft and occult stuff. And then we shall reap the despair? No, we shall be freed by Jesus.

    Usually schizophrenics and such people where demon oppression is the most obvious cause of their illness, are not visited by christians. Instead we are fed the Derek Prince legalism and lies. There is a whole industry of so-called demon deliverers that go the Derek Prince route. The testimonies say nothing because there are few witches and magicians.

    But I do not blame you. I don't accuse you, woman. Just check the bible and don't think that the theater piece that is Job has anything real to say about satan. Satan mocks Jesus and that's why he will get destroyed and why Jesus liberates the captives. There is nothing about legal rights here, just Jesus needing helping hands who do better than the Derek Prince deliverers. Satan is evil and evil means he attacks the weak, the depressed, the suffering and the sensitive. And we all get weak sometimes. You really think satan obeys rules? No, woman, that's not true.
     
  12. Lily of Valleys

    Lily of Valleys Well-Known Member

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    It is not that I believe Satan obey rules, it's more that I believe God has power over Satan that Satan cannot do things outside of the limit God has set. Even the demons needed to get permission from Jesus before they could enter the swine:

    Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him. And they pleaded with him not to order them to depart to the abyss.

    A herd of many swine was feeding there on the hillside, and they pleaded with him to allow them to enter those swine; and he let them. The demons came out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. (Luke 8:30-33)

    You don't need to be a witch or magician to be involved with the occult. There are many everyday people who are not witches but have participated in New Age and occult activities such as consulting the dead, Transcendental Meditation, altered state of consciousness, ouija boards, astral projection, etc. I have actually talked to people who practiced New Age activities to invite spiritual guide but ended up the evil spirit came the next time automatically uninvited.

    As for you claiming the demon didn't get inside you at the point when you made a lucifer dance, I would like to point out that many people are not necessarily aware that the demon is already inside until they start to wanting to believe in God. That's when the demon rears its ugly head to stop them from reconciling with God. Doreen Irvine, the former witch is one of those examples.
     
  13. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Philippians: 4. 8. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
     
  14. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    With God, person will be righteous, which is opposite to sin.

    Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
    1 John 3:7-10
     
  15. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I wouldn't associate demons with sins. Michael the Arch Angel is seen contending with the devil in the book of Jude. And it's stated that "The Lord Rebuke Thee" to the devil. You sound like you pretty much know your stuff, God Bless and be merry :)
     
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