Democrats Prove They Don't Really Care

[NxNW]

Perhaps you should look it up. I wasn't referring to the date of the election, but the dates of certification of electoral results.

Those elections had already been conceded. The Democrats did not attempt to interfere with the election results and overthrow the government.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Americans should take those low wages instead.

Americans used to work for those low wages, in the 19th century

 

[Erik Nelson]

No, actually I don't. I know why.

You do not condemn damaging Federal Post Offices and injuring Federal Postal workers ?

 

[Erik Nelson]

countries NO WHERE NEAR as successful or rich or with GDPs ANYWHERE near the US have managed to pull off democratic socialism

You acknowledge, then, that democratic socialism correlates with "GDP nowhere near the US" ?

 

[rambot]

You acknowledge, then, that democratic socialism correlates with "GDP nowhere near the US" ?

By that tortured logic, free markets ALSO correlate with "GDPs nowhere near the US"

 

[rambot]

Americans used to work for those low wages, in the 19th century

Well there's no reason why they shouldn't STILL be taking those jobs.

 

[Desk trauma]

Well there's no reason why they shouldn't STILL be taking those jobs.

Other then being undercut by cheaper illegal labor.

 

[whatbogsends]

Americans used to work for those low wages, in the 19th century

And unsafe work environments and poverty conditions for workers led to workers protections, including the minimum wage.

 

[rambot]

Other then being undercut by cheaper illegal labor.

If those illegals can get paid that much and companies can get away with it (even being able to file taxes) then OBVIOUSLY red blooded Americans could take those jobs at those "illegal pay rates" too.

If companies can do it while avoiding consequences (which are basically nothing to begin with), then certainly Americans could take those jobs too.

Why does it matter if the pay is so low?

 

[Desk trauma]

If those illegals can get paid that much and companies can get away with it (even being able to file taxes) then OBVIOUSLY red blooded Americans could take those jobs at those "illegal pay rates" too.

Were there not illegal labor being used to press down wages companies would be paying enough to attract American workers.

If companies can do it while avoiding consequences (which are basically nothing to begin with), then certainly Americans could take those jobs too.

Why does it matter if the pay is so low?

Because Americans will not do the work for the wages offered.

 

[rambot]

Were there not illegal labor being used to press down wages companies would be paying enough to attract American workers. Because Americans will not do the work for the wags offered.

Yes but paying living wages would require Americans to pay more for their food. As Mr Nelson pointed out, Americans would have to pay "European prices" for fruit.

If Americans would be willing to pay more for their fruit, then more Americans would be employed. This is true for anything made and found in America.

Essentially, my problem is scapegoating illegals when they are not the biggest problem (and frankly, are a BIT closer to a victim, IMHO).

 

[Desk trauma]

Essentially, my problem is scapegoating illegals when they are not the biggest problem (and frankly, are a BIT closer to a victim, IMHO).

There is no illegal labor issue in the US without American companies and individuals employing that illegal labor. There are no "illegals not paying taxes" without an American making that happen by paying them under the table. Now, do dispense with this nonsense presuppositions that I am scapegoating illegal economic migrants and ignoring the Americans enablers that employ them.

Strict immigration law enforcement should be something that is in line with "liberal" politics.
Having large numbers of illegal economic migrants drives down wages, gives employers a large pool of easily exploitable labor and muddies the waters for people seeking asylum. None of this serves the interests that liberals attest they are interested in.

 

[rambot]

There is no illegal labor issue in the US without American companies and individuals employing that illegal labor. There are no "illegals not paying taxes" without an American making that happen by paying them under the table. Now, do dispense with this nonsense presuppositions that I am scapegoating illegal economic migrants and ignoring the Americans enablers that employ them.

whoa whoa. I'm not presupposing that. I was simply stating MY opinion on the matter.

Strict immigration law enforcement should be something that is in line with "liberal" politics.
Having large numbers of illegal economic migrants drives down wages, gives employers a large pool of easily exploitable labor and muddies the waters for people seeking asylum. None of this serves the interests that liberals attest they are interested in.

Wouldn't strict employment laws with TEETH do more to combat the problem than strict immigration control?

Companies are able to employ folks without an SSN if they provide other pieces of ID. Why not just say that you MUST have an SSN that is tied to the employee. And then have HUGE enforced fines.

If the companies are the ones CHOSING to employ them, then they are the ones who are creating the market for them to be here. So, it makes sense to me that employment enforcement seems like it'd to better at solving that problem.

If we are looking at combating the LABOUR issues, going after immigration won't solve that problem.

 

[Desk trauma]

whoa whoa. I'm not presupposing that. I was simply stating MY opinion on the matter.

Which was stated in reply to my post. Odd how anyone could reach the conclusion that when someone speaks to them they are speaking to them.

Wouldn't strict employment laws with TEETH do more to combat the problem than strict immigration control?

In this case its enforcement of immigration laws related to employment.

Companies are able to employ folks without an SSN if they provide other pieces of ID. Why not just say that you MUST have an SSN that is tied to the employee. And then have HUGE enforced fines.
If the companies are the ones CHOSING to employ them, then they are the ones who are creating the market for them to be here. So, it makes sense to me that employment enforcement seems like it'd to better at solving that problem.

I have been advocating something similar to that for years.

If we are looking at combating the LABOUR issues, going after immigration won't solve that problem.

When it's illegal immigrant labor being discussed it is an immigration issue.

 

[Ringo84]

"Democrats prove they don't really care", part deux:

https://twitter.com/AndrewSolender/status/1367521778566889480

"The only moral spending is my spending for billionaire tax cuts and defense contractors".
Ringo

 

[rambot]

Which was stated in reply to my post. Odd how anyone could reach the conclusion that when someone speaks to them they are speaking to them.

Those are big fancy words for missing the point.
I didn't accuse you of what you say; that was my point. It was me speaking to you but not stating what YOU were speaking about or thinking about.

When it's illegal immigrant labor being discussed it is an immigration issue.

If companies would NOT hire them, would their be an illegal immigrant labour issue?
No. There would be an illegal immigrant issue.

 

[Desk trauma]

Those are big fancy words for missing the point.

None of those words in that quote were large.

I didn't accuse you of what you say; that was my point. It was me speaking to you but not stating what YOU were speaking about or thinking about.

How unforgivably silly of me to think that the words of a post directed at me were directed at me.

If companies would NOT hire them, would their be an illegal immigrant labour issue?
No. There would be an illegal immigrant issue.

...and when companies hire illegal immigrants it's a violation of immigration law hence how its immigration an immigration issue.

The illegal labor is just the most convent fulfillment of the interests of employers, lower wages. Improving wages, as I said, is someone that is a liberal cause but there is a blind spot when it comes to illegal immigrants for some reason.

 

[rjs330]

KS Rep Ron Estes acknowledges that the bill bails out Union pensions, which might help some workers. However, the spending is geared towards Dem states & constituencies, even going so far, as to change the rules for distribution of food stamps for low income children, such that most of the money now goes to Dem states instead of where most such persons actually reside.

Meanwhile, the bill will not significantly help Repub constituencies, like small business owners.

If I understand correctly, then the bill may help some workers, but not "petite bourgeoisie"; Dems but not Repubs. To the victor go the spoils?

After Hours - OANN Immigration Outlook with Rep. Ron Estes

Of course, more abortion funding for PPH is also a priority, despite their support of sex trafficking:

Tipping Point - How Planned Parenthood Aids Abuse with Lila Rose

Well it appears that the democrats are vengeful and petty. They don't really care about the hurting. Just the democrats that are hurting.

 

[rambot]

How unforgivably silly of me to think that the words of a post directed at me were directed at me.

What do you mean "directed" at you? I was "replying" to you and in that sense it was directed at you. But "directed at" you is not the same as "Accusing you"....
As I mentioned, I did not accuse you of anything, nor gave any indication I was accusing you of anything other than, apparently, I said something to you.

...and when companies hire illegal immigrants it's a violation of immigration law hence how its immigration an immigration issue.

Fair point.

The illegal labor is just the most convent fulfillment of the interests of employers, lower wages. Improving wages, as I said, is someone that is a liberal cause but there is a blind spot when it comes to illegal immigrants for some reason.

Yes. So the best way to stop the market of illegals is to make sure companies don't hire them.

Employers Struggle With Hiring Undocumented Workers: 'You Cannot Hire American Here'
It sounds to me like American consumers are pricing American workers out of jobs. It also sounds like Americans don't actually WANT those jobs anyways.
So....then what?

 

[rjs330]

Americans should take those low wages instead.

Yes they should. If they need jobs. The thing is, if no one took the jobs at lower wages then wages would by necessity increase. As then would the cost of the goods. Illegals then keep the wages low this creating a market for themselves.