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Democrats ignore Ukrainian denials of pressure by Trump

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Mountainmanbob, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Deroy Murdock: In impeachment inquiry, Democrats ignore Ukrainian denials of pressure by Trump
    The Ukrainians – whom Trump supposedly pressured, quid-pro-quoed, bribed, or extorted – repeatedly insist that nothing nefarious ever happened.

    Asked about these numerous denials, former federal prosecutor Doug Burns said Thursday morning on “Fox & Friends”: “The victim wasn’t victimized.”


    Ukraine minister denies Trump put pressure on Zelenskiy during call: report
    (Reuters) - Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko on Saturday denied suggestions U.S. President Donald Trump had put pressure on Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskiy during a phone call in July.
     
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  2. hislegacy

    hislegacy This is me.

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  3. Stanfordella

    Stanfordella The Power of Youth Supporter

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    There's a lot of fallacies packed into one post and I only have a couple of minutes to spend here.

    President Zelensky is in an extraordinarily vulnerable position, with his country desperately needing the support of the United States both in terms of military aid and clout in order to defend itself from the persistent attacks from Russia. He is also one of the youngest leaders in the world, and is inexperienced politically; he was previously an actor and screenwriter. He ran for president on an anti-corruption platform and won, and then was hectored into a compromising position by Trump and his proxies that threatened to undermine that platform. The irony is that the narrative Trump has pushed about corruption in Ukraine is actually antipodal to the reality of it. But right now what Zelensky cares about the most, understandably, is not untangling facts from false perceptions, but simply protecting his own country's best interest. It's the biggest "no duh, dude" ever that he would say he hadn't felt pressured, knowing that undermining and contradicting Trump while Trump is still in office is detrimental to his own country. I mean, this is literally a matter of life and death.

    The delay of military aid to Ukraine was not without consequence, nor was it innocent. At least 13 Ukrainian soldiers, ranging in age from just 20 to 45, were killed while Donald Trump's administration was withholding military aid from the country from mid-July to mid-September. It's impossible to state with certainty whether prompt delivery of the American aid would have prevented these deaths, but each one underscores the human toll at stake. Kiev was, and it remains, locked in a brutal, deadly struggle with its Russian-backed separatist adversaries. This whole Trump-induced fiasco has also managed to hand Putin yet another victory in portraying Ukraine, their adversary, negatively.

    ETA link from Kiev Post: People died while Trump played games with Ukraine’s military aid
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  4. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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  5. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Ukraine's back is against the wall, and they are in mortal danger as an independent nation, and also their leaders can be in actual mortal danger also.

    Literally. Russia has taken part of their country, and is supporting fighters fighting them in east Ukraine.

    Russia could invade. Any year. It's possible.

    Russia could even, in keeping with Russian past actions, simply invade and kill Ukrainian leaders or imprison them or exile them and smear them.

    So, Ukraine cannot take even a slight risk of alienating Trump, even if Trump did something wrong.

    They have to say "It's all good. Thank you America!"
    even if Trump did wrong things. They cannot say he did.


    They don't' have a choice. It's life or death for their leaders.


     
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  6. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi MM,

    Just a couple of things to be considered regarding the testimony of Zelensky. First of all, there is evidence that he has said at one point that he did and then later that he didn't. Secondly, there is Mr. Sondham's testimony that Zelensky would say anything that President Trump wanted him to say to secure the aid.

    Finally, that Zelensky may or may not have felt pressured isn't the issue here. The issue here is a President of the United States asking another world leader to dig up dirt on a political opponent whether or not there was any bribery or coercion on anyone's part. President Trump did say, it's on the record, "I have a favor to ask though. I would like you to open up an investigation into the 2016 election and the Biden's."

    So, I'm not so sure that the Democrats are not accepting the response from Zelensky that he didn't feel pressured, so much as they just believe, as I also do, that asking a foreign power to start investigating a political opponent, for which there is absolutely no evidence held by anyone that something was done wrong, isn't right.

    So, let's not lose sight of what the issues are when the WH tries to throw up all these non-sequitur arguments and defenses. President Trump releases what he says are the transcripts of calls and then we get another transcript that is supposed to be from a more accurate method of recording, that doesn't support the first transcript. People ask questions. Listen, President Trump is truly his own worst enemy here.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  7. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Best not to fly on the old
    coulda woulda.

    Trump did nothing -- let's move on.
    M-Bob
     
  8. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So what, we have the whole transcript to read for ourselves and the Reps. on the panel can ask about those very things in the open hearings.
    It sounds to me like you just want to bad mouth the Dems. That motive has a really bad look to it.
    This impeachment isn't the time for partisan politics.
     
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  9. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Just looking for the truth
    looking for the truth.
    Wherever it falls.
    Or doesn't fall.
    M-Bob
     
  10. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It would be political suicide for the Ukrainians to communicate that Trump had put pressure on them ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  11. rjs330

    rjs330 Well-Known Member

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    That's no evidence that it occurred. That's pure speculation.
     
  12. The_Barmecide

    The_Barmecide Active Member

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    The GOP is quickly becoming the party that will soon have to demand the release of EVERY SINGLE MOB BOSS who has ever been convicted of shaking down people. Because they never used the magic phrase "Quid pro Quo" explicitly, and their victims never complained about being victimized.

    The GOP is truly the party of Lawn Order.
     
  13. DaisyDay

    DaisyDay blind squirrel

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    Not just "political"...
     
  14. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And they will insist that nothing nefarious happened ... until Trump and allies are out of office ...
     
  15. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not just "political"...
     
  16. Scholastica

    Scholastica Member

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    Incidentally, the guy I keep tied up in my basement and who relies on me for food said I had never done anything wrong and could he have that bread now, please.
     
  17. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Christ is born!

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    Breitbart is rated as biased to the right as Fox News. Where are the completely unbiased reports about it? Tim Morrison testified as a first-hand witness today, so there is no way Adam Schiff ignoring it would be a true statement.
     
  18. ChristianForCats

    ChristianForCats Christ is born!

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    If Trump did nothing, there would be no phone call transcripts, text messages, tweets, notes written by a phone call witness while she was listening, or other documents that have been acquired via subpoenas. If he did nothing, nobody would have even thought about starting an impeachment inquiry. So you know he did a lot of things.
     
  19. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

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    It is good to see that people still have their manners, good for him. Give him some apple cores for being polite and respectful.
     
  20. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Goat Whisperer Supporter

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    Highly anticipated - but problematic - witness for Democrats to testify at Trump impeachment inquiry hearing

    Potentially problematic figure for Democrats set to testify as key Trump impeachment witnesses undercut claims of 'quid pro quo,' 'bribery' and 'cover-up'
    Republicans sounded a celebratory note as House Democrats' impeachment inquiry wrapped up another day of public hearings Tuesday evening, saying the day's witnesses had served only to highlight fundamental problems in the case against President Trump.
     
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