Democratic overreach.

[mark46]

As there are no vaccine mandates thats a moot point.

???
Hundreds of colleges have COVID vaccine mandates of various kinds.
Almost all Democratic states allow or mandate that K-12 teachers and students be vaccinated against various diseases or be excluded.
============
IMO, the ONLY legal support for the COVID anti-vaxxers is that the vaccines have NOT been given final approval. The CDC and the FDA do need to do that to give businesses and the military better support for their rules.

But even without final approval, businesses have the right to require their employees to be vaccinated against smallpox, the flu and also COVID19. Large enough companies may decide not to fire folks, but to put them under restrictions with regard to where they work and what jobs they can perform. After all, there is no law against discriminating against the u0nvaccinated, at least, not in most states.

 

[98cwitr]

Say it hundred times, it does not make it true.

You do NOT have an individual right to beer at the local bar. The BUSINESS OWNER can exclude who he wishes as long as he is isn't discriminating against a member of a protected class, somewhat different from state to state.

Ahh "protected class"...rights for them but not for everyone else. Interesting spin, but unfortunately your opinion doesn't line up with the SCOTUS decision, which protects everyone, not just the "protected class"

US Supreme Court backs Colorado baker's gay wedding cake snub

You cannot walk in with no shirt or no shoes, if the owner chooses to exclude you.

Unless, according to your debunked sentiment, I was gay.

And yes, a baker can choose not to sell to someone because he doesn't like their looks. However, if the customer is a member of a protect class, there is a conflict of rights.

Incorrect.

There are states that have essentially created "rights" for the unvaccinated, forcing business owners to serve them. These laws will be fought in court. The state may win. HOWEVER, I will shocked if SCOTUS creates a federal protected class of the unvaccinated. States, school districts and colleges are free to exclude the unvaccinated, if allowed under their state law.

In my state, our children have a constitutional right to a "quality and free education," and to infringe upon that based on vaccine status would be met with the most massive lawsuit that North Carolina has ever seen.

 

[KCfromNC]

I just remember the US Surgeon General tweeting out in March 2020 that masks were ineffective, then Fauci changed that story and the state governors followed in lock-step. There's no political "echo chamber" from which this information or position is derived, but simply an acknowledgement of a massive shift in "facts" and direction. When people say "Believe the science" one may be forced to ask "Which version of it?" to which the answer is "Whatever they're telling you to believe right now."

Yep, continue to use the internet to tell us how unreliable our understanding of science and technology is. That certainly won't make it look like you're cherry-picking examples of science refining its understanding of the world to try and score cheap rhetorical points.

 

[KCfromNC]

Not redacted by the authors, but another "source"...who is to say who is right in this regard, especially the source of the data being outside of the US?

I guess even American data is inherently superior to those dirty foreign numbers. Something something not sending their best and brightest, perhaps?

 

[98cwitr]

Yep, continue to use the internet to tell us how unreliable our understanding of science and technology is. That certainly won't make it look like you're cherry-picking examples of science refining its understanding of the world to try and score cheap rhetorical points.

Don't conflate medical science and information technology.

 

[KCfromNC]

I'm thinking you must feel similarly about laws and/or business policies to require shirt and/or shoes? You'd support my right to walk around topless, after all, you are saying I've got a Constitutional right?

As I've pointed out before, I'm really very very concerned about the rights of restaurant workers being trampled by making them wash their hands after using the restroom. I don't know why this doesn't come up more often. I mean, what happened to their individual choices on the matter?

 

[98cwitr]

I didn't ask about drinking - I asked about drinking and driving. It is compulsory that you are not allowed to drink above a certain limit and drive. In other words, your freedoms are restricted to protect the well-being of others, collectively.

And I answered you in that specific context.

Do you believe this is right, to restrict people's individual freedoms for the collective good?

I've already demonstrated the wiggle room in such a regard.

And if so, do you also believe that your freedoms should be restricted when it comes to the vaccines also, so that it is compulsory that people get the vaccine to protect the well-being of others, collectively?

"My" freedoms are everyone's freedoms, and when it comes to vaccines that should be between a person and a doctor. Some people can't get the vaccine based on their medical history and condition. I don't see the evidence that supports vaccines being required to achieve herd immunity, but I do see the media actively trying to push that narrative without evidence to back it up via op-eds from journalists...not scientists.

 

[KCfromNC]

Don't conflate medical science and information technology.

I think I already mentioned the previous post made it look like cherry-picking to try and get to a predetermined conclusion. No need for extra posts to make it explicit.

 

[trunks2k]

Ahh "protected class"...rights for them but not for everyone else.

I don't think you understand what a "protected class" is. They are certain categorizations of people that covers EVERYONE. Sex, for example is a protected class. That prohibits discrimination based on sex. So that protects both men and women. It's not, in any way, rights for one group within the class but not another. It just tends to be that a certain group within the class experiences the vast majority of discrimination.

 

[98cwitr]

I don't think you understand what a "protected class" is. They are certain categorizations of people that covers EVERYONE. Sex, for example is a protected class. That prohibits discrimination based on sex. So that protects both men and women. It's not, in any way, rights for one group within the class but not another. It just tends to be that a certain group within the class experiences the vast majority of discrimination.

On paper that sounds great, but the push for equity over equality results in one side of those protected classes receiving biased and unfair treatment, as Mark cleared gave example toward.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

And I answered you in that specific context.

I've already demonstrated the wiggle room in such a regard.

You've done neither of these things. You accepted the limitation on freedom when it comes to drinking and driving by accepting that every state has a min BAC over 0.00% without questioning that restriction. You haven't demonstrated "wiggle room" - you just provided how people can have the choice to comply or not comply with the restriction on their freedom.

The context is that if people can, according to you, make personal decisions on whether or not to comply with limitations on drinking and driving or else face the penalties of the law then do you also believe people should be able to make personal decisions on whether or not to comply with limitations on being allowed to refuse the vaccine or else face the penalties of the law?

"My" freedoms are everyone's freedoms, and when it comes to vaccines that should be between a person and a doctor. Some people can't get the vaccine based on their medical history and condition. I don't see the evidence that supports vaccines being required to achieve herd immunity, but I do see the media actively trying to push that narrative without evidence to back it up via op-eds from journalists...not scientists.

You don't have any evidence for drinking and driving to be a danger to anyone, either, but yet you support laws against it. Why the double standard? Why do you want to take someone's freedom to drink what they want as an adult and drive their car that they are legally licensed and registered for? I thought you were for personal freedoms and no government interference for the collective good (if drinking and driving even hurts the collective good, which is something you have not even established)?

A person's choice to drink however much alcohol as he wants is between that person and his bartender. It's not the government's business to meddle in that. You make that same argument about vaccines but you don't apply it fairly to other areas of life, why the inconsistency? Why the double standard?

 

[DaisyDay]

On paper that sounds great, but the push for equity over equality results in one side of those protected classes receiving biased and unfair treatment, as Mark cleared gave example toward.

You still don't understand what protected class means. Please read trunk2k's post again.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

I for one got the vaccine at the first opportunity. I don't know about this protected class argument going on but it seems to be going in circles. Anyone who has been in management knows all about the multiple protected classes. Age, sex, race, disability, etc. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[mark46]

There is little that the vaccinated can do, other than watch the hospital COVID numbers climb. We haven't even seen the July 4th bump yet. Also, the heat is keeping the numbers down. By Fall, we will have the results of July 4th and then Labor Day.

And we MUST pray for the high schoolers throughout the country. COVID spreads as fast among them as among all adults. In many states, there will be almost ZERO vaccinations. The spread will be severe, especially in areas where many of their parents are unvaccinated.

And especially, pray for the children in TN. There legislature wants to end all vaccines for children.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I for one got the vaccine at the first opportunity. I don't know about this protected class argument going on but it seems to be going in circles. Anyone who has been in management knows all about the multiple protected classes. Age, sex, race, disability, etc. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

"Straightforward" isn't a useful tool to panic the gullible, however.