Delivered from the Power of Darkness

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Bible2

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CmRoddy posted in message #156 of this thread:

I'm amazed at how people can say "This is what Jesus meant when
He said such and such" which results in a conclusion exactly opposite
of what Jesus plainly said...

Greetings.

That's right, Jesus can plainly say, for example, "except ye repent,
ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3), but once-saved-always-
saved answers "Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to
repent. God will forgive you anyway". Or Jesus can plainly say: "Not
every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is
in heaven" (Matthew 7:21), but once-saved-always-saved answers
"Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to do anything. God
will save you anyway".
 
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Bible2

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CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

He is the one who protects (or "keeps") us walking with Him and
faith is the means by which this happens...

But 1 Peter 1:5 doesn't say that God forces us to continue walking
in the faith, because it is possible for believers to "depart from the
faith" (1 Timothy 4:1). And "if we deny him, he also will deny us"
(2 Timothy 2:12).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

If God begins a good work in someone, He will finish it...

God will finish his work in us (Philippians 1:6), so long as we don't
quench his Spirit within us (1 Thessalonians 5:19).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

He is faithful to those He calls and "will bring it [sanctification] to
pass."

God will bring our sanctification to pass (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24),
so long as we don't backslide into willful, unrepentant sin (Hebrews
10:26-29)..
 
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Bible2

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CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

I agree that we must keep on believing. I agree that we have to
endure to the end or we will not be saved. However, we should
never assume that this condition is actually something that true
converts (i.e. sheep of Christ) can actually fail to do.

Note that true converts can lose their salvation by falling away:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have
tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy
Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of
the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto
repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God
afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh
in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet
for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But
that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto
cursing; whose end is to be burned" (Hebrews 6:4-8).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

God is the one who is working in us so we can keep on believing and
working out our salvation...

The keyword is "can". While it is God who makes it possible for us to
work out our salvation (Philippians 2:12-13), he does not turn us into
marionettes; out of sheer laziness, we can lose our salvation: "His
lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant ...
cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:26,30).
 
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Bible2

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CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

If God calls someone, He is faithful to them because all that are
called are justified and all that are justified are glorified (Rom.
8:29-30).

Note that even the glorified (Romans 8:30) can lose their salvation
by backsliding and living after the flesh (Romans 8:13).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

God is able to keep us from stumbling and He does according to
the passages above...

While God is able to keep us from falling (Jude 1:24), no passage
says that he will stop us if we are hellbent on falling (Hebrews 6:6).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

God disciplines His children and brings them back to the right path.

God does discipline his children to motivate them to repentance
(Revelation 3:19), but they can still refuse to repent (Revelation
2:21-23).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

Christ is both the author and perfecter of faith.

While Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2),
as believers we still have to actually obey him in order to obtain
eternal salvation (Hebrews 5:9).

CmRoddy posted in message #157 of this thread:

So yes, we must endure and we must keep on believing and
following; but don't think that we are left on our own to do this and
that God will let His children fail and perish.

Note that no one has said that God leaves us on our own when we
are trying to obey him, but if we are determined to disobey him
(Hebrews 10:26-29) or depart from him altogether (1 Timothy 4:1),
he will let us do so, even to the loss of our salvation (Hebrews
6:4-8). For God wants children who want to stay with him and want
to obey him, not prisoners whom he forces to stay with him, or
human marionettes whom he forces to obey him no matter what
they want to do.
 
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CmRoddy

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Greetings.

That's right, Jesus can plainly say, for example, "except ye repent,
ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3), but once-saved-always-
saved answers "Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to
repent. God will forgive you anyway". Or Jesus can plainly say: "Not
every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is
in heaven" (Matthew 7:21), but once-saved-always-saved answers
"Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to do anything. God
will save you anyway".

Really? That's what we believe? Interesting that you claim this when I have never seen a Calvinist explain those verses in this fashion... :doh:
 
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Rightglory

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CmRoddy,

I will not respond to someone who can't fairly represent and understand the other side.
got into another corner and cannot get out. So another lame excuse. The Gospel, by the way, HAS ONLY ONE SIDE. If one can show what the Gospel has meant since the beginning it is obvious that some modern view does not measure up. It cannot be the Gospel. Very simple to understand.
 
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nobdysfool

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CmRoddy,

got into another corner and cannot get out. So another lame excuse. The Gospel, by the way, HAS ONLY ONE SIDE. If one can show what the Gospel has meant since the beginning it is obvious that some modern view does not measure up. It cannot be the Gospel. Very simple to understand.

You have yet to convincingly make that point yourself. All you're doing is derailing threads, disrupting discussions and trying to dominate the conversation. You are blind to the problems of the EO church, and the claims they make for themselves. You're nothing but a parrot for them, telling us that what we can clearly see and understand in scripture doesn't mean what it says. Please have the good grace to leave these discussions. You have nothing to sell that we want to buy.
 
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Rightglory

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nobdysfool,

You are blind to the problems of the EO church, and the claims they make for themselves.
Ah, another assertion, but no evidence. You are really good at that.

Give some evidence. What problems and which claims?

You're nothing but a parrot for them,
All Christians are parrots. They have denied themselves for Christ. They have submitted to HIS GoSPEL. They do not develop their own form of faith.

Christ said to proclaim HIS GOSPEL. I don't read, have never heard that He said to proclaim the Gospel of Calvin or any other man. Could you show me where that directive might be?

telling us that what we can clearly see and understand in scripture doesn't mean what it says.
Based on YOUR interpretation. Don't worry about me, you have several thousand other individuals who so strongly disagree with you that they have come up with their very own interpretation. Contend with them first, then see if you can contend with the Gospel once given.

Please have the good grace to leave these discussions. You have nothing to sell that we want to buy.
You don't want to buy. You have a difficult time dealing with a Gospel that cannot be twarted, cannot be shown to be incorrect historically. You can only show it does not measure up to your personal interpretation.

Show me in scripture, since that is your authority as you claim, where that authority might be. Thousands seem to disagree with you. If it really had authority, don't you think all those reading it would read it the very same way. They would all come to the very same conclusion?
 
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nobdysfool posted in message #165 of this thread:

I think Bible2 is singing "50 ways to lose your salvation"....

Greetings.

Note that there may be more than just 50 ways for us to lose our
salvation, insofar as there may be more than just 50 ways for us
to commit sin without repentance: "Now the works of the flesh are
manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness,
revellings, and such like [i.e. and other sins]: of the which I
tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they
which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
"
(Galatians 5:19-21).
 
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Bible2

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CmRoddy posted in message #166 of this thread:

Interesting that you claim this when I have never seen a Calvinist
explain those verses in this fashion...

Greetings.

Note that no one should be called or call himself a Calvinist, for
believers should not identify themselves after any man but Christ:
"every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of
Cephas [cf. "and I of Calvin"]; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided?"
(1 Corinthians 1:12-13).

Also, note that the idea of once-saved-always-saved has to answer
Jesus' statement: "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"
(Luke 13:3) with something to the effect of: "Oh, no, Jesus didn't
mean that; there's no need to repent. God will forgive you anyway",
for otherwise the idea of once-saved-always-saved would have to
admit that we can lose our salvation for unrepentant sin: "For if we
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful
looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the
adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-27); "For if ye live after the flesh, ye
shall die" (Romans 8:13); "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall
not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers
of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of
God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

And note that the idea of once-saved-always-saved has to answer
Jesus' statement: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21), with something to
the effect of: "Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to do
anything. God will save you anyway", for otherwise the idea of once-
saved-always-saved would have to admit that we can lose our
salvation for a lack of works: "His lord answered and said unto him,
Thou wicked and slothful servant ... cast ye the unprofitable servant
into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
(Matthew 25:26,30); "Ye see then how that by works a man is
justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24); God "will render to
every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient
continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,
eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey
the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath"
(Romans 2:6-8).
 
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heymikey80

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there may be more than just 50 ways for us to lose our
salvation, insofar as there may be more than just 50 ways for us
to commit sin without repentance: "Now the works of the flesh are
manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness,
lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations,
wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness,
revellings, and such like [i.e. and other sins]: of the which I
tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they
which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
"
(Galatians 5:19-21).
... those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:37-39

... no one should be called or call himself a Calvinist, for
believers should not identify themselves after any man but Christ:
"every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of
Cephas [cf. "and I of Calvin"]; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided?"
(1 Corinthians 1:12-13).
Well, you guys don't like it when we call ourselves the Scriptural Christians. :234: So you like "I of Christ", eh? But it's in Paul's list ...?
... the idea of once-saved-always-saved has to answer
Jesus' statement: "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"
(Luke 13:3) with something to the effect of: "Oh, no, Jesus didn't
mean that; there's no need to repent. God will forgive you anyway",
... those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Gal 5:24
for otherwise the idea of once-saved-always-saved would have to
admit that we can lose our salvation for unrepentant sin: "For if we
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful
looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the
adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-27); "For if ye live after the flesh, ye
shall die" (Romans 8:13);
Nope:
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38-39
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall
not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers
of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor
drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of
God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:11
... the idea of once-saved-always-saved has to answer
Jesus' statement: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of
my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21), with something to
the effect of: "Oh, no, Jesus didn't mean that; there's no need to do
anything. God will save you anyway",
Same to be said for:
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt 5:18-19

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Mt 5:48
... for otherwise the idea of once-
saved-always-saved would have to admit that we can lose our
salvation for a lack of works: "His lord answered and said unto him,
Thou wicked and slothful servant ... cast ye the unprofitable servant
into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
(Matthew 25:26,30);
The servant didn't believe the master -- he was a disloyal servant, not simply a failing servant.
You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed?Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. Mt 25:26-27
"Ye see then how that by works a man is
justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:24); God "will render to
every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient
continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,
eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey
the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath"
(Romans 2:6-8).
By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Rom 3:27-28
... it hasn't yet been actually shown that the idea of once-
saved-always-saved has been unfairly represented or misunderstood.
Yep. It has. In the original view of OSAS, Sovereign Grace, works result from salvation. They aren't a cause of salvation. That view's consistently misrepresented by the opposing side as "no works".
 
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Bible2

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heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

... those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its
passions and desires. Gal 5:24

Greetings.

That's right, when we got water-immersion baptized, it was the
same as us crucifying (and burying) the power of sin (Galatians
5:24) over our lives: "Know ye not, that so many of us as were
baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore
we are buried with him by baptism [buried in the water] into
death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory
of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if
we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall
be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old
man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed,
that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed
from sin" (Romans 6:3-7).

This is great news; it means that we are no longer slaves to sin;
we no longer have to sin but can now choose to either sin or
not to sin by our free will: "Know ye not, that to whom ye [believers]
yield yourselves [by our free will] servants to obey, his servants ye
are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience
unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants
of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart [our own free will]
that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free
from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the
manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have
yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto
iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness
unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free
from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof
ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now
being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your
fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life" (Romans 6:16-22).

But, alas, even though we have been made free from sin, it is
nonetheless still possible for us to wrongly employ our free will to
continue to live in sin, to the loss of our salvation: "For if ye live
after the flesh, ye shall die" (Romans 8:13); "Now the works of the
flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication,
uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance,
emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders,
drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before,
as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21); "For if we
sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful
looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the
adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-27); "But I keep under my body, and
bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have
preached to others, I myself should be a castaway" (1 Corinthians 9:27).

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who
loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor
rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor
height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to
separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 8:37-39

Amen, nothing can separate us from the love of God (Romans 8:39),
except ourselves wrongly employing our free will to separate
ourselves, to fall away, from God, thereby losing our salvation: "For
it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have
tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy
Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of
the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto
repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God
afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh
in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet
for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But
that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto
cursing; whose end is to be burned" (Hebrews 6:4-8).
 
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Bible2

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heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

Well, you guys don't like it when we call ourselves the Scriptural
Christians.

All Christians must be scriptural Christians if they are to be true
Christians, for Christians are the disciples of Jesus: "the disciples
were called Christians" (Acts 11:26), and true disciples of Jesus will
continue in his Word the Bible: "If ye continue in my word, then are
ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). And that is the whole question
of this discussion: are those of us Christians who are holdng to the
idea of once-saved-always-saved continuing in the perfect doctrine
that the Bible itself has always taught, or have we strayed from the
Bible's teaching in order to follow teachers who have tickled our ears
with pleasing-sounding false doctrine: "All scripture is given by
inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for
correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God
may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. I charge
thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall
judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove,
rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will
come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own
lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be
turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 3:16-4:4). It's sad to say, but
some of us have turned aside after the man-made fable of once-
saved-always-saved, because we cannot endure the sound, Biblical
doctrine that we can lose our salvation for unrepentant sin (Hebrews
10:26-29) or for apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8) or for laziness (Matthew
25:26,30) or for not overcoming (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:11),
not enduring unto the end (Matthew 24:13) in faith (Hebrews 3:6,14,
Colossians 1:23), in obedience (Hebrews 5:9, Matthew 7:21), in
good works (Romans 2:6-8).

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

So you like "I of Christ", eh? But it's in Paul's list ...?

Yes, we should only identify ourselves after Christ himself; "I of
Christ" is the only correct identification in 1 Corinthians 1:12, for
Christ must not be divided (1 Corinthians 1:13, 1 Corinthians 12:25).
And yet, we cannot honestly identify ourselves after Christ himself,
we cannot honestly call him Lord, if we aren't actually doing what
he says to do: "why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things
which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were
sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:11

Amen, as Christians we are sanctified (1 Corinthians 6:11) from our
past sins by our faith in the atoning blood of Jesus: "Whom
God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to
declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past"
(Romans 3:25). And yet even after we have been sanctified, we can
wrongly employ our free will to go back to sinning without repentance,
to the loss of our salvation: "For if we sin wilfully after that we have
received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more
sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and
fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that
despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three
witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be
thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and
hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified,
an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
(Hebrews 10:26-29).

As believers who continue in sin thinking that it is okay because we
are under grace, we are "turning the grace of our God into
lasciviousness" (Jude 1:4), and so our fate will end up being worse
than if we had never become believers, never become sanctified:
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through
the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again
entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with
them than the beginning
. For it had been better for them not to
have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known
it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them" (2 Peter
2:20-21); "if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth
his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat
and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a
day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware
of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with
the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth"
(Matthew 24:48-51); "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"
(Luke 13:3).
 
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Bible2

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heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an
iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these
commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called
least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches
them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Mt 5:18-19

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am
not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till
heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass
from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17-18). This is not
referring to Jesus fulfilling all of the commandments of the Mosaic law,
because many of them he couldn't possibly fulfill himself, such as the
commandment regarding a woman after giving birth (Leviticus 12:5).
Instead, Matthew 5:17-18 is referring to Jesus fulfilling all of the
Messianic prophecies regarding himself in the Old Testament:
"These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with
you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the
law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning
me
" (Luke 24:44). Jesus did come to abolish the commandments
of the Mosaic law, on the cross: "Having abolished in his flesh the
enmity, even the law of commandments" (Ephesians 2:15), "Blotting
out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was
contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"
(Colossians 2:14), "For there is verily a disannulling of the
commandment going before
for the weakness and unprofitableness
thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a
better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Hebrews 7:18-19).

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of
heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be
called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19). Here "these
commandments" are not the commandments of the Mosaic law which
Jesus came to abolish, but the New Covenant commandments of
Jesus himself which immediately follow in the Sermon on the Mount,
the righteousness of which New Covenant commandments far exceeds
that of the Mosaic law kept by the Pharisees: "For I say unto you,
That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the
scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of
heaven. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time [Mosaic
law]
, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger
of the judgment: But I say unto you [New Covenant, much stricter],
That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in
danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother,
Raca [You're worthless!], shall be in danger of the council: but
whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest
that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift
before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother,
and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly,
whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary
deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer,
and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by
no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
|
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time [Mosaic law],
Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you [New Covenant,
much stricter]
, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her
hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy
right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is
profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not
that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right hand
offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for
thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole
body should be cast into hell.
|
It hath been said [Mosaic law], Whosoever shall put away his wife,
let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you [New
Covenant, much stricter]
, That whosoever shall put away his wife,
saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:
and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
|
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time
[Mosaic law], Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto
the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you [New Covenant, much stricter],
Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by
the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the
city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head,
because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your
communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than
these cometh of evil.
|
Ye have heard that it hath been said [Mosaic law], An eye for an
eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you [New Covenant,
much stricter]
, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will
sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke
also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him
twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow
of thee turn not thou away.
|
Ye have heard that it hath been said [Mosaic law], Thou shalt love
thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you [New
Covenant, much stricter]
, Love your enemies, bless them that
curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the
children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun
to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just
and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward
have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your
brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the
publicans so?" (Matthew 5:20-47).

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Mt 5:48

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect" (Matthew 5:48). This can only be understood in the context
of what came before: we can be perfect, even more righteous than
the old abolished Mosaic law, if we will obey Jesus' New Covenant
commandments in the Sermon on the Mount, and elsewhere. And
we must obey them if we want to be saved in the end, for Jesus
"became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him"
(Hebrews 5:9). We actually can become perfect if we do what
the Bible tells us to do: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect"
(2 Timothy 3:16-17), "Having therefore these promises, dearly
beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and
spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Corinthians 7:1).
 
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heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

The servant didn't believe the master -- he was a disloyal servant,
not simply a failing servant.

You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I
scattered no seed?Then you ought to have invested my money with
the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my
own with interest. Mt 25:26-27

Where does it say that the lazy servant who loses his salvation
(Matthew 25:26,30) didn't believe in Jesus? How could he have been
the servant of Jesus without believing in him? He was one of those
who believed in Jesus and called him Lord, but subsequently stopped
doing what God told him to do, and so he failed to enter into the
kingdom of heaven: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21), God "will
render to every man [including believers] according to his deeds: To
them [believers] who by patient continuance in well doing seek for
glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them
[including believers]
that are contentious, and do not obey the
truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath" (Romans 2:6-8).
This is saying the same thing as Romans 8:13a and Hebrews 10:26-27.

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Rom 3:27-28

Note that Romans 2:6-8 is not referring to the works of the Mosaic law
(Romans 3:27-28), but to works performed by believers, which are
works of faith: "Remembering without ceasing your work of faith"
(1 Thessalonians 1:3), "faith which worketh" (Galatians 5:6), "Ye see
then how that by works [of faith] a man is justified, and not by
faith only
" (James 2:24).

heymikey80 posted in message #174 of this thread:

In the original view of OSAS, Sovereign Grace, works result from
salvation. They aren't a cause of salvation. That view's consistently
misrepresented by the opposing side as "no works".

Actually, "no works" is not a misrepresentation of "Sovereign Grace,
works result from salvation", for the whole point of "Sovereign" in the
idea of once-saved-always-saved is that it is God Himself doing the
works in the believer; all the believer has to do is believe, and God
will make sure that the believer just naturally does works, regardless
of what the believer himself wants to do. The idea of once-saved-
always-saved turns believers into marionettes the strings of which
God constantly pulls on to make sure believers do this or that,
regardless of the will of the believers. And so every believer has the
"assurance" that he cannot possibly lose his salvation for any lack
of works. His works are not his concern, but God's, so his salvation
has nothing to do with he himself ever having to go out of his way
to perform any good works. And so in this horrible, mistaken idea, it
is possible for him to become the lazy servant who ends up doing
no works, to the loss of his salvation (Matthew 25:26,30); it is
possible for him to become the branch in the vine who ends up
bearing no fruit, to the loss of his salvation: "Every branch in me
that beareth not fruit he taketh away" (John 15:2).
 
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