Deliverance Ministries, Binding of Satan & Casting out Demons

[jhjhh]

All of the above scriptures are great exhortations and references, but the problem of rightly interpreting them still remains. How can the average Christian know which interpretation is the correct one, when there are countless different interpretations being presented to the flocks in all the different denominations.

Most Christians change their view several times over during their lives, so there's disagreement among members in a local Church let alone with other denominations.

The Gospel has caused the most division, every denomination preaches a different gospel. We have so many seeker friendly Churches, who preach a gospel which doesn't offend anyone. So you can continue living any lifestyle you wish and add Jesus to your life as a buddy to help you in times of trouble.

Churches now embrace everyone, who cares to join them. I left a Church where a visitor kept swearing, I approached the pastor and told him that the man was using profane language while children were in close proximity. The pastor told me that the man was recently released from prison after a long sentence, where swearing is normal so we need to give him time to adjust. The pastor said we're not legalist's here, we accept everyone just as Jesus kept company with prostitutes and other outcasts of society.

The pastors mission was to get people to come into his Church and then slowly introduce them to the gospel. He said the "fire and brimstone" preaching wouldn't work in his area because there was a large LGBT community there. So he always preaches about the love of God, because those people wouldn't endure preaching about judgement or God's wrath.

The gospel can be presented in many different ways, so much so that it becomes a completely different message from Church to Church. So it's easy to convince people who haven't studied the whole bible that your particular gospel is the right one, since most people find the Bible extremely difficult to understand as it seems to contradict itself at so many points.

Maybe they need to pray for wisdom. Maybe they need to study their bible themselves without someone else telling them how things are.

 

[Dan1988]

Gosh, that sounds pretty normal.
Now that we have agreed on all this, can we go back to the thread and discuss the OP in friendly opposition. Dunno where to start though, but just feel we haven't finished.

We won't be able to finish this discussion, since we both have a fundamentally different view of Gods sovereignty and mans free will.
I believe that God is sovereign over all things, including mans free will and every other thing we can think of.
I understand your position, you believe that man does have some measure of autonomy to make a choice to either embrace the gospel or reject it. I don't believe that man has any autonomy outside of God predetermined decree.
I don't expect you to agree with me, since there are many Bible verses which seem to say that man does have a measure of autonomy But there are many more which say that man doesn't have any input towards his salvation or condemnation.

The question goes beyond human understanding, but I justify my position by accepting the fact that God is the only One who is autonomous and righteous. So this is one of those things we don't have the right to put Him on trial over.

I think we crossed our wires earlier, regarding "Demonic deception". We both agree that a deceived person doesn't equate to a one having no hope of salvation. I was trying to say that Satan cannot decisive a Christian to the extent where they lose their salvation. You refereed to some scriptures which could be understood as saying that some can lose their salvation.

The only difference between our views is, I believe the elect of God can appear to be possessed by evil spirits but God saves them because their names are written in His book or they are the "elect of God". I get the sense that you believe that man has some say in who God has purposed to save before the foundation of the world.

 

[Dan1988]

Maybe they need to pray for wisdom. Maybe they need to study their bible themselves without someone else telling them how things are.

This is sound advice, but we need to consider that problem we face when we study the Bible in private. We can easily form a wrong view, if we don't have someone to help us understand the scriptures and apply them in their intended context.

God has appointed Shepherds to lead His flock, to suggest that a sheep can assume the office of a shepherd can be dangerous because the hungry lion is roaming around seeking to devour sheep who have strayed away from the shepherd.

 

[jhjhh]

This is sound advice, but we need to consider that problem we face when we study the Bible in private. We can easily form a wrong view, if we don't have someone to help us understand the scriptures and apply them in their intended context.

God has appointed Shepherds to lead His flock, to suggest that a sheep can assume the office of a shepherd can be dangerous because the hungry lion is roaming around seeking to devour sheep who have strayed away from the shepherd.

Gods help is a good help.
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:27 KJV

 

[Dan1988]

Gods help is a good help.
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:27 KJV

It sounds like John is saying that the anointing which the Saints receive from God, is not something we learn about. It sounds like something believers receive, so it's not something a pastor can teach us to attain.
God has appointed Elders to teach and shepherd those who are already saved and anointed. The Christian must grow and bare fruit, so they need to be taught and encouraged in how to bare as much fruit as possible.
We will all be judged according to our works, those rouge Christians who live as islands or monks in some remote monastery away from everyone are useless in God's kingdom. They can't produce any fruit while they hide and live self indulgent lives.

 

[Francis Drake]

We won't be able to finish this discussion, since we both have a fundamentally different view of Gods sovereignty and mans free will.

Maybe not, but let's give it a go.

I believe that God is sovereign over all things, including mans free will and every other thing we can think of.

If God is sovereign, why does he constantly force me to oppose your theology?
Why doesn't God make me think like you, or vice versa?

I understand your position, you believe that man does have some measure of autonomy to make a choice to either embrace the gospel or reject it. I don't believe that man has any autonomy outside of God predetermined decree.

You mean like God's predetermined decree that I oppose your theology?

I don't expect you to agree with me, since there are many Bible verses which seem to say that man does have a measure of autonomy But there are many more which say that man doesn't have any input towards his salvation or condemnation.

If God is love, why does he create men solely to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire?

The question goes beyond human understanding, but I justify my position by accepting the fact that God is the only One who is autonomous and righteous.

But I also believe this to be absolutely true! Nothing in my understanding of sovereignty denies God's autonomy and righteousness.

So this is one of those things we don't have the right to put Him on trial over.

Er...? Do you think I am putting God on trial?

I think we crossed our wires earlier, regarding "Demonic deception". We both agree that a deceived person doesn't equate to a one having no hope of salvation. I was trying to say that Satan cannot decisive a Christian to the extent where they lose their salvation. You refereed to some scriptures which could be understood as saying that some can lose their salvation.

Although a born again believer can never lose his sonship, like the prodigal, he can certainly lose the earthly benefits of being a son. ie. He lives on pigswill on earth, returning to his Eternal Father after death.

The only difference between our views is, I believe the elect of God can appear to be possessed by evil spirits but God saves them because their names are written in His book or they are the "elect of God". I get the sense that you believe that man has some say in who God has purposed to save before the foundation of the world.

It seems we differ on whether a believer can had indwelling demons and the issue of what predestination means.

I'll look at them in separate posts.

 

[Dan1988]

Maybe not, but let's give it a go.

If God is sovereign, why does he constantly force me to oppose your theology?
Why doesn't God make me think like you, or vice versa?

You mean like God's predetermined decree that I oppose your theology?

If God is love, why does he create men solely to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire?

But I also believe this to be absolutely true! Nothing in my understanding of sovereignty denies God's autonomy and righteousness.

Er...? Do you think I am putting God on trial?

Although a born again believer can never lose his sonship, like the prodigal, he can certainly lose the earthly benefits of being a son. ie. He lives on pigswill on earth, returning to his Eternal Father after death.


It seems we differ on whether a believer can had indwelling demons and the issue of what predestination means.

I'll look at them in separate posts.

I don't have "my theology", the only theology I hold to is the one which God revealed to us in the Bible.

To suggest that God creates some, for the sole purpose of casting them into hell is a false accusation against God. Men put God on trial at their own peril, He will not be found guilty of any unrighteousness. You failed to see the elephant in the room, God casts people into hell after a life of wicked rebellion and sin. You can't twist the scriptures and put the cart before the horse, God never created anyone to cast them into hell as a new born baby.

You say that you don't deny His sovereignty, but then you deny that He is sovereign over salvation. So you're OK giving Him a measure of sovereignty, but only in the small things but you don't trust Him in the big ticket items like salvation.

Every christian will be judged according to his works, this is not a works based salvation doctrine. It just means those Christians who sinned a lot and didn't bare much fruit will receive a small reward in heaven. While others who were more faithful will enjoy a much higher position in heaven. All Christians will be saved regardless of how much they sinned.
It's the same for the condemned, they also receive different levels punishment in hell.

The Christian can have Demos attacking them from the outside, but they can't cohabit a person who is already indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Predestination is a simple Bible doctrine, which leaves no room for misinterpretation. It just means that God predetermined everything that has happened from the beginning of creation and into all eternity. Yes this includes the rise of wicked men like Hitler and Pharaoh.

 

[hislegacy]

Luke 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”​

notice. The Scripture tells us the 70 other (not the Apostles), testified that the Demond’s were subject to them.

Scripture one showing it was more than the 12.

Jesus’ own words in Matthew 16

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
​

I choose to follow scripture

 

[MBM888]

I was a part of the Churches of Christ (conservative, NOT Latter-Day Saints) for a long time, and they don't believe demons inhabit people today the same way they did in the NT times. As such, they don't believe in the need for exorcisms.

For me personally, I have a lot of questions about it. I feel the same way about it right now as I do about people who claim experiences with ghosts, fairies (yes, really), and anything else spooky or preternatural: Just vast amounts of skepticism.

I can't say for sure it doesn't happen, but having never seen or experienced and exorcism myself, I can't say it does, either. And most of what I've heard has been online or through the gossip chain. I don't know how much to believe, and I'm very paranoid about being suckered into a belief that isn't true.

I'm a Christian. I have been for nearly 30 years. But on this, for me, the jury is still out.

 

[splish- splash]

I think it is also important to look at the following

Ephesians 6:10-20
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming missiles of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, 19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

[Francis Drake]

I was a part of the Churches of Christ (conservative, NOT Latter-Day Saints) for a long time, and they don't believe demons inhabit people today the same way they did in the NT times. As such, they don't believe in the need for exorcisms.

For me personally, I have a lot of questions about it. I feel the same way about it right now as I do about people who claim experiences with ghosts, fairies (yes, really), and anything else spooky or preternatural: Just vast amounts of skepticism.

I can't say for sure it doesn't happen, but having never seen or experienced and exorcism myself, I can't say it does, either. And most of what I've heard has been online or through the gossip chain. I don't know how much to believe, and I'm very paranoid about being suckered into a belief that isn't true.

I'm a Christian. I have been for nearly 30 years. But on this, for me, the jury is still out.

So basically, you don't believe what the bible describes repeatedly, and what Jesus commanded?

 

[Francis Drake]

I think it is also important to look at the following

Ephesians 6:10-20
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming missiles of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints, 19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

I imagine most people on this thread are very familiar with those verses, but what is more important is what YOU believe about them. And you have said nothing.

 

[Sunshinee777]

Deliverance ministries have been criticised by many who believe that such ministries have no authority from God to perform exorcisms.

This is a controversial topic, so the main denominations have different views and opinions on how we are to understand it.

For example, the Roman Catholic Church has priests who are specially trained to perform exorcisms. While Evangelical Churches like mine, teach that Jesus only gave the authority to cast out Demons to the apostles alone. My Church teaches that we have no power or authority to cast out demons or bind Satan in any way.

We see examples in the Bible such as Acts 19:16 where others tried to cast a demon out of a man. They commanded the demon to come out of the man in the Name of Jesus and the apostle Paul. But they were brutally beaten and barely escaped with their lives. The demon did acknowledge the power of Jesus and Paul, but he said "who are you" before he beat them up.

The Bible does give us instructions on how to deal with Satan and His Demons, but none of it involves confronting Stan and the Demons. We are told in Ephesians 6:10-18 to run from them and put on the full armour of God to protect us from their attacks.

According to the Bible, Ephesians 4:27 tells us that our only defence against Satan is to not give Him a foothold in our lives. Jesus never instructed us to confront Satan and the Demons in any way. He just told us to run for our lives, since Satan is the most powerful creature in the universe.

It's amazing to see so many offering all kinds of rituals to liberate people from demon possession but they neglect to do the only thing which can liberate them, that being the preaching of the gospel.

satan is the most powerful creature in the universe? That is completely false claim. God is the most powerful, satan got his power from God and Jesus has victory over satan. And when we born again in Jesus, and we are filled with Holy Spirit, we have that victory which Jesus has. There is thousands and thousands christians who have seen demons and who has cast out demons. That is real thing even some christian don’t like it or see it.

 

[Dan1988]

satan is the most powerful creature in the universe? That is completely false claim. God is the most powerful, satan got his power from God and Jesus has victory over satan. And when we born again in Jesus, and we are filled with Holy Spirit, we have that victory which Jesus has. There is thousands and thousands christians who have seen demons and who has cast out demons. That is real thing even some christian don’t like it or see it.

The bible tells us that Satan is the most powerful creature of all. Not sure why you compared God with Satan, since God created Satan and God is not created so He's not a creature. He is the creator of all creatures including Satan.
The arch Angel Michael fought against Satan for 21 days and He couldn't defeat Him so He called upon God to rebuke Him.
If the Arch Angel couldn't defeat him, then that means that no man is any match for Satan or any Demon. The bible warns us not to challenge or take on any Demons, since they are far more powerful than any man.
The only One who defeated Satan and His demons was the Lord Jesus Christ who is Jehovah God Himself.
The only way a Demon possessed person can be delivered from possession is if the holy spirit indwells that person. So the only part a man can play in deliverance is to pray for the person and ask them to repent and receive Jesus as their savoir, just as the rest of humanity need since we're all born slaves of Satan until we're liberated and set free by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sunshinee777]

The bible tells us that Satan is the most powerful creature of all. Not sure why you compared God with Satan, since God created Satan and God is not created so He's not a creature. He is the creator of all creatures including Satan.
The arch Angel Michael fought against Satan for 21 days and He couldn't defeat Him so He called upon God to rebuke Him.
If the Arch Angel couldn't defeat him, then that means that no man is any match for Satan or any Demon. The bible warns us not to challenge or take on any Demons, since they are far more powerful than any man.
The only One who defeated Satan and His demons was the Lord Jesus Christ who is Jehovah God Himself.
The only way a Demon possessed person can be delivered from possession is if the holy spirit indwells that person. So the only part a man can play in deliverance is to pray for the person and ask them to repent and receive Jesus as their savoir, just as the rest of humanity need since we're all born slaves of Satan until we're liberated and set free by the Holy Spirit.

Well you can believe what you want. God bless you.

 

[Dan1988]

Well you can believe what you want. God bless you.

I don't have the liberty to believe whatever I want. The only choice I have is to believe what God's word teaches.