• The General Mental Health Forum is now a Read Only Forum. As we had two large areas making it difficult for many to find, we decided to combine the Mental Health & the Recovery sections of the forum into Mental Health & Recovery as a whole. Physical Health still remains as it's own area within the entire Recovery area.

    If you are having struggles, need support in a particular area that you aren't finding a specific recovery area forum, you may find the General Struggles forum a great place to post. Any any that is related to emotions, self-esteem, insomnia, anger, relationship dynamics due to mental health and recovery and other issues that don't fit better in another forum would be examples of topics that might go there.

    If you have spiritual issues related to a mental health and recovery issue, please use the Recovery Related Spiritual Advice forum. This forum is designed to be like Christian Advice, only for recovery type of issues. Recovery being like a family in many ways, allows us to support one another together. May you be blessed today and each day.

    Kristen.NewCreation and FreeinChrist

Deliberate dissociation

dms1972

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 26, 2013
5,086
1,305
✟596,524.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I'm not myself, but I'd say its deliberate, because to be myself means to be aware of a whole load of problems I am in, so I deny myself, distance myself, almost create another self in my mind. Please don't misunderstand I am not talking about "dying to self", or "being dead indeed unto sin" I don't mean that, or whatever way christians might decribe sanctification. What I mean is hard to explain, but its like a deliberate inner dissociation though that might not be the right terms. Why do I engage in these sorts of mental tricks? Because I found myself at an impossible place in myself and I can't cope there. But the drawback is that its not real, i am not were my real self is at - so that is the problem. In my real self so to speak I have never been able to really believe and trust God, or just to believe per se, to believe in God at all. Maybe when I was quite young I did, but I became unbelieving. I have had people tell me "Turn your will over to God", but when they do I want to tell them "I don't believe" but can't so I am probably a hypocrite too.

I don't know if anyone understands any of what I wrote, but its hard to explain. Dissociation is probably not the right word.

I don't think I ever accepted 'Christ in my heart', but when I was young I think instead I embraced a kind of calvinism, I suppose what I thought was calvinism as a child. Family then I suppose thought I was a christian and a believer, because I was going about explaining "Calvinism". But nothing had happened at a deeper level. So that resulted in my being a hypocrite.

I don't know what I want at the minute, and i kind of feel its impossible for me to become a christian because of my willfulness which I can't seem to change.
 
Last edited:
  • Friendly
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid

~Zao~

Wisdom’s child
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2007
3,060
957
✟100,595.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Simple faith is that of a child. Complications are set in place by wrongful thinking: i.e.:believing lies. So the onus falls on the unbeliever to prove what, fi, mathematicians spend a lifetime learning, is untrue, whereas simple faith needs no further qualities to unfold. That’s my other self talking to my self that believes simply but still loves the proofs. :)
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
I don't know what I want at the minute, and i kind of feel its impossible for me to become a christian because of my willfulness which I can't seem to change.
This is very common among men worldwide. It may be one of the primary reasons they never turn to Yahuweh (God) to seek His Kingdom.
Or maybe more - not that they cannot change their will/ make a choice who to serve, but they don't want to - they want what they have, or what the world has given them or offered them MORE than eternal life.
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,175
9,960
The Void!
✟1,132,565.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I'm not myself, but I'd say its deliberate, because to be myself means to be aware of a whole load of problems I am in, so I deny myself, distance myself, almost create another self in my mind. Please don't misunderstand I am not talking about "dying to self", or "being dead indeed unto sin" I don't mean that, or whatever way christians might decribe sanctification. What I mean is hard to explain, but its like a deliberate inner dissociation though that might not be the right terms. Why do I engage in these sorts of mental tricks? Because I found myself at an impossible place in myself and I can't cope there. But the drawback is that its not real, i am not were my real self is at - so that is the problem. In my real self so to speak I have never been able to really believe and trust God, or just to believe per se, to believe in God at all. Maybe when I was quite young I did, but I became unbelieving. I have had people tell me "Turn you will over to God", but when they do I want to tell them "I don't believe" but can't so I am probably a hypocrite too.

I don't know if anyone understands any of what I wrote, but its hard to explain. Dissociation is probably not the right word.

I don't think I ever accepted 'Christ in my heart', but when I was young I think instead I embraced a kind of calvinism, I suppose what I thought was calvinism as a child. Family then I suppose thought I was a christian and a believer, because I was going about explainning "Calvinism". But nothing had happened at a deeper level. So that resulted in my being a hypocrite.

I don't know what I want at the minute, and i kind of feel its impossible for me to become a christian because of my willfulness which I can't seem to change.

I'm sure some of us can understand at least something of what you've just described about your own feelings in all of the personal turmoil, dms1972. Many (and probably most) folks, despite their denials, can relate with what you're saying about your feelings of "dissociation." I think I've had feelings like that off and on in the past when experiencing existential angst or spiritual crisis or even wrangling with personal family trauma(s).

So, I think many of us can affirm your feelings in some way. It means you're human and there is a lot of bad stuff in this world, along with our experiences of those things, that can turn us inside out, especially if we don't have strong, stable people (or such Christians) in our lives.

At the moment, that's all I'm going to say since I was want to offer you encouragement and to let you know that you have a listening ear among the rest of us. I'm sure there's others here, too, who would say the same.

It's interesting that you bring up your struggle to find "willingness." Both Pascal and Kierkegaard, and Paul, have either stated or alluded that some of the central part of our daily battles as Christians come with struggling with this very same force in our own selves. And they've said these things in reflection of the fact that Jesus says He knows our hearts and they lay Open Before Him.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know someone hears you.

2PhiloVoid :cool:
 
Last edited:
  • Friendly
Reactions: dms1972
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟151,950.00
Country
United States
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Maybe you need to ask yourself what you find so disagreeable , unbelievable or unpleasant that it’s affecting your faith to accept it.maybe you need to look for another church

(As an aside,I’m glad I wasn’t raised as a fundie because I would have left Christianity rather than put up with some of their tenets)
 
Upvote 0

dms1972

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 26, 2013
5,086
1,305
✟596,524.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Maybe you need to ask yourself what you find so disagreeable , unbelievable or unpleasant that it’s affecting your faith to accept it.maybe you need to look for another church

(As an aside,I’m glad I wasn’t raised as a fundie because I would have left Christianity rather than put up with some of their tenets)


Don't get me wrong - I am not a regular at any church right now - I am not fussed on them - for there is too much "getting to know you" for my liking in some churches. Either I sit by myself - no one bothers and after the service I leave again (Which I never feel is great) - or its people coming over and I don't want contact. I did go again for a number of years after I ceased to be a christian but I found there was nothing much really speaking to me. In childhood and youth I went to a mission hall in which my dad was the minister.

I probably was a bit "fundy" back then myself.

Now I don't know what I am.
 
Upvote 0

Melody Suttles

SingPeace
Site Supporter
Sep 22, 2018
215
394
Atlanta
✟79,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
DMS,
Just simple daily decisions can add up, and if you are choosing to escape rather than deal, then you are doing what I did until I was 24 years old.

It is really intimidating, and our choices reveal our character. So escaping may comfort us, but the weight just gets heavier anyway. Nothing has been going right for you - you don't feel safe, and you cannot trust anyone - If you could get the courage, you might look at a truth you avoid; that you're exhausted, wounded, and desperate to be rescued. What we decide to do; including escaping all make up who we are.

I dissociated when I was young, and it came from severe PTSD. I felt a constant state of anxiety. I even wanted to die.

I know you don't want to hear this - but Jesus is your only hope if you truly want to be rescued. When I finally decided to give up everything to Christ and let it go (truly in my heart I let it all go and gave it all over to Him). I was swept up into the arms of a Knight in Shining Armor - and help came in many different ways - He sent people to me, and together, God helped me to face all the things that had tormented me most of my life.

I've been to LOTS of therapy - years of it. Meds and doctors - books and classes.

I turned my anger toward what had been my torment I put my big girl pants on and took over. For the first time, I had control and became the boss of me. I found a very loving church family, I called on a couple of Godly women whenever I struggled. I found a new way to deal. I found that I could have been rescued at any time during all the years I spent as a prisoner.

I have spent 25 years in ministry. I have spoken at women's conferences. I have had a rich and full life - I feel good about me, and I lay my head on my pillow at night feeling peaceful about the choices I made that day.

It truly hurts my stomach to think that you do not believe - but I'm glad you were honest about that. I wish I could sweep away every cobweb and veil that have kept you from being able to see clearly what is happening to you.

I know it's hard to believe, but you are honestly and very deeply loved. Your talents shouldn't be wasted but cultivated. You probably have a great adventure waiting for you if you would only believe and trust everything to Jesus Yeshua.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: dms1972
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm not myself, but I'd say its deliberate, because to be myself means to be aware of a whole load of problems I am in, so I deny myself, distance myself, almost create another self in my mind. Please don't misunderstand I am not talking about "dying to self", or "being dead indeed unto sin" I don't mean that, or whatever way christians might decribe sanctification. What I mean is hard to explain, but its like a deliberate inner dissociation though that might not be the right terms. Why do I engage in these sorts of mental tricks? Because I found myself at an impossible place in myself and I can't cope there. But the drawback is that its not real, i am not were my real self is at - so that is the problem. In my real self so to speak I have never been able to really believe and trust God, or just to believe per se, to believe in God at all. Maybe when I was quite young I did, but I became unbelieving. I have had people tell me "Turn your will over to God", but when they do I want to tell them "I don't believe" but can't so I am probably a hypocrite too.

I don't know if anyone understands any of what I wrote, but its hard to explain. Dissociation is probably not the right word.

I don't think I ever accepted 'Christ in my heart', but when I was young I think instead I embraced a kind of calvinism, I suppose what I thought was calvinism as a child. Family then I suppose thought I was a christian and a believer, because I was going about explaining "Calvinism". But nothing had happened at a deeper level. So that resulted in my being a hypocrite.

I don't know what I want at the minute, and i kind of feel its impossible for me to become a christian because of my willfulness which I can't seem to change.
I will submit that we, typically, cannot KNOW whether there is a greater power or not, ... but only whether it is likely that there is a greater intelligence operating in other dimensions than we do ... which is attempting to draw humanity into a higher dimension of life.

For myself, I focus upon Jesus ... and have made a determination that such a one as He deserves my followship. In 50 years of followship to Jesus, I have experienced true fulfillment, and enough experiences which have been adequate to affirm my trust in God's partnership in my life.
 
Upvote 0

dms1972

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 26, 2013
5,086
1,305
✟596,524.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
This is very common among men worldwide. It may be one of the primary reasons they never turn to Yahuweh (God) to seek His Kingdom.
Or maybe more - not that they cannot change their will/ make a choice who to serve, but they don't want to - they want what they have, or what the world has given them or offered them MORE than eternal life.

That's probably would describe me. Anyway as a child I thought myself a bad person - well I think before I understood much I concluded that in some way I was predestined to be be a bad person, I knew this was kinda wrong, but I persisted in thinking it, even though I knew I should just stop thinking about the matter of predestination - I believe I went further and thought I was predestined to think that (wrong) way about predestination - or something like that. This I concluded was Calvinism, and I asked my dad was he a calvinist and he said yes, and at that it felt like my fate was sealed - I was caught in an insuperable knot.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
That's probably would describe me. Anyway as a child I thought myself a bad person - well I think before I understood much I concluded that in some way I was predestined to be be a bad person, I knew this was kinda wrong, but I persisted in thinking it, even though I knew I should just stop thinking about the matter of predestination - I believe I went further and thought I was predestined to think that (wrong) way about predestination - or something like that. This I concluded was Calvinism, and I asked my dad was he a calvinist and he said yes, and at that it felt like my fate was sealed - I was caught in an insuperable knot.
The escape from all and any wrong teaching,
is found in Jesus,
He Who Willing Seeks out those who are lost and hurting to save them, if they are willing.

I hope and pray you are willing.
Turn to Jesus, away from family, away from calvinism , and away from any -ism that does not give you peace...

Talk to Him Daily, frequently, and with the Father in heaven, The Perfect Father without any iniquity, without any sin, Who Provides Himself to you a way to be saved.

Let Him Heal / Repair/ Correct all that is needed.
 
Upvote 0

dms1972

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 26, 2013
5,086
1,305
✟596,524.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
DMS,
Just simple daily decisions can add up, and if you are choosing to escape rather than deal, then you are doing what I did until I was 24 years old.

It is really intimidating, and our choices reveal our character. So escaping may comfort us, but the weight just gets heavier anyway. Nothing has been going right for you - you don't feel safe, and you cannot trust anyone - If you could get the courage, you might look at a truth you avoid; that you're exhausted, wounded, and desperate to be rescued. What we decide to do; including escaping all make up who we are.

I dissociated when I was young, and it came from severe PTSD. I felt a constant state of anxiety. I even wanted to die.

I know you don't want to hear this - but Jesus is your only hope if you truly want to be rescued. When I finally decided to give up everything to Christ and let it go (truly in my heart I let it all go and gave it all over to Him). I was swept up into the arms of a Knight in Shining Armor - and help came in many different ways - He sent people to me, and together, God helped me to face all the things that had tormented me most of my life.

I've been to LOTS of therapy - years of it. Meds and doctors - books and classes.

I turned my anger toward what had been my torment I put my big girl pants on and took over. For the first time, I had control and became the boss of me. I found a very loving church family, I called on a couple of Godly women whenever I struggled. I found a new way to deal. I found that I could have been rescued at any time during all the years I spent as a prisoner.

I have spent 25 years in ministry. I have spoken at women's conferences. I have had a rich and full life - I feel good about me, and I lay my head on my pillow at night feeling peaceful about the choices I made that day.

It truly hurts my stomach to think that you do not believe - but I'm glad you were honest about that. I wish I could sweep away every cobweb and veil that have kept you from being able to see clearly what is happening to you.

I know it's hard to believe, but you are honestly and very deeply loved. Your talents shouldn't be wasted but cultivated. You probably have a great adventure waiting for you if you would only believe and trust everything to Jesus Yeshua.

You see all this says its something I for me to do: trust Jesus etc. But I simply can't, and I wonder does God have to change me first?

Because it can all be said in hypocrisy (not real), while in the heart I continue not to believe. For years in my life I have thought I was a christian, during my school years I would have said I was even though I was struggling a lot

Its all rather complicated and more than I can explain here.

You say something about being in control and becoming "the boss of me". I guess thats what I need, but I keep thinking stuff like is that not the opposite of God being in control, "Jesus take the wheel" etc.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dms1972

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 26, 2013
5,086
1,305
✟596,524.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
The escape from all and any wrong teaching,
is found in Jesus,
He Who Willing Seeks out those who are lost and hurting to save them, if they are willing.

I hope and pray you are willing.
Turn to Jesus, away from family, away from calvinism , and away from any -ism that does not give you peace...

Talk to Him Daily, frequently, and with the Father in heaven, The Perfect Father without any iniquity, without any sin, Who Provides Himself to you a way to be saved.

Let Him Heal / Repair/ Correct all that is needed.

Sorry I can't speak because everything I say is hypocrisy.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Sorry I can't speak because everything I say is hypocrisy.
Good to recognize, perhaps. So? What then? Don't speak. (on the forum)....

See in the Bible, (yes, today, read the Bible) >>>

What did Jesus say to those He came to ? Repent, stop sinning, come learn from Me(from Jesus) and I will nurture your soul, I will care for you, and I will show you how to live....
 
Upvote 0

Melody Suttles

SingPeace
Site Supporter
Sep 22, 2018
215
394
Atlanta
✟79,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
You see all this says its something I for me to do: trust Jesus etc. But I simply can't, and I wonder does God have to change me first?

Because it can all be said in hypocrisy (not real), while in the heart I continue not to believe. For years in my life I have thought I was a christian, during my school years I would have said I was even though I was struggling a lot

Its all rather complicated and more than I can explain here.

You say something about being in control and becoming "the boss of me". I guess thats what I need, but I keep thinking stuff like is that not the opposite of God being in control, "Jesus take the wheel" etc.


Well... heck... if you cannot bring yourself to believe in God, then I suppose it's not much of a stretch that you don't believe in evil spirits and angels as well? There's a lot I would love to share but no point in adding to your anxiety, so unless you ask, I'll keep the spiritual talk on hold.

I am just really glad you are honest about how you feel. I'm sure that you are pretty angry. I don't blame you a bit. If it is anything like what I remember, the anger is more like rage that is barely kept in check. It's like you're powerless to do anything but hide from things, situations, people, and your own thoughts.

I think sometimes it's better to withdraw than to act out - just to make things worse and then need to apologize. That is the worst! But disassociating only goes so far and lasts just so long. Besides, it should be like a special credit card - only for emergencies. Holding everything inside on a daily basis can eventually make you physically ill as well. It's not good for you.

I can at least suggest something non-spiritual. EMDR therapy did more for me in 8 months than 16 years of counseling had done. It stimulates the right and left sides of the brain alternately while one focuses on a specific trauma or memory. It is a permanent fix for some people and for others, it can last for months or a few years. I usually got complete relief in less than an hour - but for some it can take a few sessions. The frontal lobe of the brain is stimulated in such a way that all emotion I felt over the memory just went away.

Let me encourage you to use your anger and turn it where it belongs - toward all the little and big things that have controlled you and kept you under submission. Be angry. Just don't allow yourself to become a victim all over again - take back your power and refuse to entertain negative thoughts. Don't hate you - take care of you - so you can feel confident and walk proud again. You can do it - I can tell. You are highly intelligent and probably gifted some way. Decide to love your life and to find a way to be super-healthy, ripped, EMDR'ed, and get so you can breathe real air again.

I just have one question. How is it that you thought you were a Christian? And what and when made you realize you weren't? I guess if I could give you a million dollars - and all you had to do was go cash the check - would be nice. Well, the Lord has more than all the money in the world - richer than a billion billionaires. Everything He has is just like sitting in the bank waiting for ya'. I hope you can find the courage... the will... the determination... and a way to see fear and anxiety as like two nasty trolls that love to torment people. Kick them out - they only have a vote if you let them. Refuse to be yanked and bullied by things that have absolutely no power - except what we give them.

I bet you are a fighter by nature. My son has always been a fighter. When he finally directed his fighting instinct toward the positive - toward building himself up - claiming his authority and power to be what he wants to be instead of controlled by anger and self-hatred. He's a new man - finally! I am so proud of him. I know you can succeed at whatever you set your mind to do.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/emdr-what-is-it#2
  • The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has noted that EMDR is effective for treating symptoms of acute and chronic PTSD. According to the APA, EMDR may be particularly useful for people who have trouble talking about the traumatic events they've experienced. The APA guidelines note that other research is needed to tell whether improvements from EMDR can be sustained over time.
  • The Department of Veterans Affairs and the Department of Defense have jointly issued clinical practice guidelines. These guidelines "strongly recommended" EMDR for the treatment of PTSD in both military and non-military populations. They also note that this approach has been as effective as other psychological treatments in some studies, and less effective in others.
How Does EMDR Work?

Even the most enthusiastic supporters of EMDR have not agreed on how the therapy works. At this point, only theories exist. By inducing the recall of distressing events and diverting attention from their emotional consequences, EMDR in some respects borrows basic principles used in prolonged exposure therapy, the gold standard behavioral psychotherapeutic treatment of PTSD. Some therapists believe that EMDR reduces anxiety. This allows patients to better take control of their upsetting thoughts. Others simply say that we don't yet understand how EMDR works. According to the APA guidelines, EMDR needs further study to more fully understand it.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums