[deleted]

[FreeGrace2]

Belief is that great dividing line between being saved and unsaved.
Those that do not believe are not saved, and those that do are saved.

This seems to be the motivating factor for those who reject eternal security. They equate faith with having eternal life. But the Bible has made clear all that happens to one who believes; what they have immediately, none of which is ever said or even implied to be losable.

For example, here are some of the things that occur WHEN one believes:
they are given eternal life. Such a life cannot die by sheer definition and will exist forever in that state.
they are regenerated, born again, become a new creation. No verse suggests or says that one can lose this status.
they are saved. No verse says that if one stops believing, they stop being saved.
they are justified. No verse says that one becomes unjustified if they stop believing.

Any questions?

Those that have an evil heart of unbelief are not saved, as they are apostate in departing from the living God.

This is an opinion, bolstered only by assumption, or presumption. Please quote any verse that teaches this. And, none of the verses that are quoted in your post teach or say what you claim.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
"Please cite and quote the verses that contain the word "eternal" in them
(re: Romans 6:1-23). Just for accuracy."

I'ze bin down this rabbit hole before about this gaining of some kind of "death".
Okay, you win ... Paul was sayin' that Jesus will kill them, if they continue to sin.

None of this has any relevance to what I said. Where in Rom 6:1-23 or anywhere else says that "Jesus will kill them"? Why the motivation to make up stuff?

This way you get to have your Physical death, and ignore the reality of Eternal death!

No one has done that. What continually does get ignored is the FACT that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one believes. And that without ANY verses that tell us that we can lose said gift, including ANY way to communicate that idea.

P.S. about the U/L red, you've heard of killin' 2 birds with 1 stone?
The red is to point out your folly, and to provide the troops with some comic relief.

I would respond by noting that your view is comical, but none of this is funny. Not hardly. Those who reject eternal security are rejecting clear Scripture.

The insecurity crowd hasn't come close to proving their view from Scripture.

 

[ZacharyB]

The insecurity crowd hasn't come close to proving their view from Scripture.

I have already explained ...
WHY God has NOT made crystal clear the dire warnings re: losing salvation.

If thou remembers them, please give a hint of it.
If thou does, then I can say you have rejected it.
Otherwise, I may have to post them again.

 

[nobdysfool]

I have already explained ...
WHY God has NOT made crystal clear the dire warnings re: losing salvation.

If thou remembers them, please give a hint of it.
If thou does, then I can say you have rejected it.
Otherwise, I may have to post them again.

How convenient for you. You make God into a Being that plays games with those He saves. Hide and Seek. That makes Him an insincere and duplicitous God more akin to the concept of Abraxas which is both good and evil. No thanks, I serve the God of the Bible, a loving, gracious, Holy God, Who says what He does, and does what He says.

 

[faroukfarouk]

What I truly love about reading these debates it that the proponents of eternal security pull out verse after verse that say quite clearly things like "believe and you will have eternal life", I mean there is no argument in what the verses says. But the proponents of conditional security do not put up near as many verses and none of the verses they use are as clear as the others.

And then when you explain and show them Biblicly what the verses they refer to actually reflect and support it with other verses...you know interpret scripture with scripture...When there is no verse that clearly says eternal life is lost once it is given, you cannot infer that it can. If there is no verse that clearly says a saved person becomes lost, then you cannot assume it happens.

There is indeed no such verse!

 

[FreeGrace2]

I have already explained ...
WHY God has NOT made crystal clear the dire warnings re: losing salvation.

Your opinion has already been noted. And it sure doesn't mirror God's Word. Why in the world would God make how to be saved crystal clear, yet not clear how to lose it?

If thou remembers them, please give a hint of it.
If thou does, then I can say you have rejected it.
Otherwise, I may have to post them again.

My recollection is only a comment about God not making it clear. I don't recall any explanation. So please, post the reasons again.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

True SCIENCE, maybe you should stick to the science that of the world. and not GOD'S SCIENCE the is of FAITH.
~Heb 11:1 (((Now faith))) is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. "NOW GOD"
~Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
~Heb 11:3 (((Through faith))) we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. "THROUGH GOD"....We UNDERSTAND.

 

[ZacharyB]

There is indeed no such verse!

Please refer to the new thread about this:
"I have not found thy works perfect before God".

 

[ZacharyB]

My recollection is only a comment about God not making it clear.
I don't recall any explanation. So please, post the reasons again.

Please refer to post #56.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review and clean up​

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON


Due to flaming, this thread has undergone a clean up. Please remember, if you cannot get your views across without flaming, perhaps your position isn't as strong as you think.


MOD HAT OFF

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please refer to post #56.

My response will create post #52, so maybe #56 is in another thread??? Please advise.

 

[ZacharyB]

My response will create post #52, so maybe #56 is in another thread??? Please advise.

Perhaps it's in another thread ... when I come across it ...

 

[FreeGrace2]

Perhaps it's in another thread ... when I come across it ...

No doubt about it. Post #56 hasn't occurred yet in this thread.

 

[ZacharyB]

No doubt about it. Post #56 hasn't occurred yet in this thread.

Aren't thou aware of the clean-up in this thread?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Aren't thou aware of the clean-up in this thread?

This is post #49:

I said this:
"My recollection is only a comment about God not making it clear.
I don't recall any explanation. So please, post the reasons again."

And your response:
"Please refer to post #56."

Regardless of thread clean ups, which you obviously are aware of, why do you keep stalling and not providing your explanation of WHY God would not make loss of salvation crystal clear, as He as made HOW to get saved crystal clear?

When I asked for your reasons "again", you could have saved several posts by just doing it then.

 

[ToBeLoved]

YES! You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY! And Jesus said there is no half and half. you can't serve two masters. So that effectively nullifies their doctrine that says righteous people both do right and sin.

Exactly. And a born-again Christian is Christ's.

The verse about serving two masters clearly shows that it is one OR the other. One does not bob back and forth between masters because of sin.

You are either Christ's or you are not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Does it take some kind of incredible genius to read Romans 6 (for example)
and actually understand what it is saying???
Or, does it take some honesty to accept the Truth of what is clearly written???
Or, does it take a special revelation from the Holy Spirit to see the Truth???

I see people of all 3 persuasions in vogue here (no, everywhere).

What does Paul saying 'should we continue to sin so grace can abound?' which is a question. Which he clearly answers with 'No'.

Only people who believe that they can loose their salvation see this verse as not being very direct. Paul does not advocate anyone taking advantage of grace to continue to sin. That is what you guys say. That is not what Paul said. Paul clearly says that we are not to do that.

You have this 'free ride' mentality that you cannot get beyond because you see God as a tyrant. If you read the Word with spiritual eyes, you would see that through the most important commandment, 'to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind' that with this love for the Lord and BECAUSE of His grace, we turn from our sin.

Let's go through Romans 6.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This seems to be the motivating factor for those who reject eternal security. They equate faith with having eternal life. But the Bible has made clear all that happens to one who believes; what they have immediately, none of which is ever said or even implied to be losable.

For example, here are some of the things that occur WHEN one believes:
they are given eternal life. Such a life cannot die by sheer definition and will exist forever in that state.
they are regenerated, born again, become a new creation. No verse suggests or says that one can lose this status.
they are saved. No verse says that if one stops believing, they stop being saved.
they are justified. No verse says that one becomes unjustified if they stop believing.

Any questions?


This is an opinion, bolstered only by assumption, or presumption. Please quote any verse that teaches this. And, none of the verses that are quoted in your post teach or say what you claim.

Can we add that they are 'sealed with the Holy Spirit to that list'? The guarantee and down payment of their inheritance in Christ?

 

[ToBeLoved]

He prefers to have the Holy Spirit do this @ the right time for each believer.

Can you make what this sentence means more clear, because the Holy Spirit does a lot of things but I do not know that the Holy Spirit testifies to the person that they do not have eternal security in salvation, if that is what you are saying.