Defining a religion. - my last post ever.

Micah888

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Yes that's true. Triune God has 3 deities and Allah is only One. Muslims surely believe in Quran
Not three deities. God is One, yet has three Persons within the Godhead.

And if Jesus were not God, he could not have possibly paid for the sins of the whole world. And failure to believe this has very serious consequences.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36.
 
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Tayla

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The problem is that Allah is not the same as the triune Godhead -- the one true God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And Mohammad has been elevated above the Lord Jesus Christ, who is God. So Muslims have to either believe the Quran or believe the New Testament.
Yes, this is so true. Amen.
 
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Godistruth1

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Not three deities. God is One, yet has three Persons within the Godhead.

And if Jesus were not God, he could not have possibly paid for the sins of the whole world. And failure to believe this has very serious consequences.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36.
I must disagree with you as Muslim as i don't believe trinity is One God and we don't believe anyone can die for anyone else's sins!
 
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dlamberth

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Not three deities. God is One, yet has three Persons within the Godhead.
God, as I experience my Beloved, has as many persons as there are Human Beings, all of which are within the Godhead. For God is One.
 
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Micah888

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God, as I experience my Beloved, has as many persons as there are Human Beings, all of which are within the Godhead. For God is One.
Obviously you are either a Pantheist or a Panentheist. Christians do not accept those ideas.
 
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Arthra

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And testifying to Mohammad being the seal of Prophets is different then other Prophets in the sense, they all didn't need to prove WHY they are the last.
And the most hardest proof is to prove exactly why you are last and no Prophet after you, because it seemingly contradicts the need of Prophets through out time.

The term "Seal of the Prophets" can be seen as a "noun" .. A "Seal" as in a sign of authority say on a document tells us where it came from. So Prophet Muhammad in having a "Seal" means He was an authentic Prophet not that He was the "Last" Prophet as some believe:

"Saying that Muhammad is “the Seal of the Prophets” is equivalent to saying that He is “the official signature” of God’s great Teachers and Messengers. Such a usage of “seal” does not point to an action. It does not mean that Muhammad did something, that He stopped an ongoing process. The Qur’án does not declare that Muhammad’s Advent sealed (verb) or terminated the periodic Advent of future Messengers from God. It simply bestows a title on Him. The use of the word “seal” as a noun in relation to human beings is not idiomatic. But, as we know, God often speaks in symbolic or metaphoric language. And that is how this title is applied to Muhammad."

http://sealofprophets.org/SealE.pdf
 
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Godistruth1

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The term "Seal of the Prophets" can be seen as a "noun" .. A "Seal" as in a sign of authority say on a document tells us where it came from. So Prophet Muhammad in having a "Seal" means He was an authentic Prophet not that He was the "Last" Prophet as some believe:

"Saying that Muhammad is “the Seal of the Prophets” is equivalent to saying that He is “the official signature” of God’s great Teachers and Messengers. Such a usage of “seal” does not point to an action. It does not mean that Muhammad did something, that He stopped an ongoing process. The Qur’án does not declare that Muhammad’s Advent sealed (verb) or terminated the periodic Advent of future Messengers from God. It simply bestows a title on Him. The use of the word “seal” as a noun in relation to human beings is not idiomatic. But, as we know, God often speaks in symbolic or metaphoric language. And that is how this title is applied to Muhammad."

http://sealofprophets.org/SealE.pdf
Its only meaning is last prophet
 
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ananda

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The proof for God's leaders is best done by God. Right now I believe there exist many scriptures through out the earth, some known some unkown, that manifest the truth of God's religion ... I don't know what to tell a human anymore and what they can to get guided. I don't know myself ... I am sorry for all calls to an abstract religion with no concrete methodology to attain it's true creeds and ways ... I seek refuge from relying on conjecture

IMO Buddhism has answered all of these questions and concerns, at least for myself, to my satisfaction.
 
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Noxot

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Obviously you are either a Pantheist or a Panentheist. Christians do not accept those ideas.

some do. you can't really speak for all Christ followers. it's not like magically being part of a popular group gives people a monopoly on the things Jesus said and did. especially when you see the big popular groups argue for centuries because two different sects used two different words even though they meant the same thing. it just shows the difference in accepting a set of words blindly vs understanding what the words were trying to express.

~~~~~

the I - thou relationship with God takes seemingly separated and literal statements that are commonly understood through the lens of souls as individual entities and it applies a universal and absolute and yet personal and intimate understanding to them. this is because God is deeper in us than we ourselves are.
 
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DennisTate

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If you seek to define official beliefs of a religion, you are seeking the end of the rainbow. There is no such thing.

I define a Muslim and Islam in this outward world as in the official religion and it's adherent, those with their tongue testify "There is no god but God and Mohammad is his Messenger". This doesn't imply anything about belief, because we dispute what a god is and what Worshiping God alone means, and we even dispute about what Prophethood means and what Messengerhood means, and we dispute of who Mohammad is and his traits and there is probably not a single thing that unites us belief wise if you were to collect all Muslims and ask them their views.

I realized this is true of every religion including Christianity (trinity is not agreed concept for example).

Therefore these discussions about this religion and that religion, are meaningless.

And testifying to Mohammad being the seal of Prophets is different then other Prophets in the sense, they all didn't need to prove WHY they are the last.

And the most hardest proof is to prove exactly why you are last and no Prophet after you, because it seemingly contradicts the need of Prophets through out time.

And I realize Muslims mostly don't care for proofs regarding why Mohammad is the seal of Prophets and why Quran is to be protected and it's good enough Quran says so, because, of course, they believe Quran is to believed dogmatically as opposed to having insights that proves everything it states including the dark enemy of humanity, magic, etc, and proves everything and doesn't want anything taken for granted.

All in all, because my sect has more than anyone else, made the religion into about humans and idol worship so obvious, I can't call to them.

Nor can I assert that I am a reliable means to guide towards the true creed and it's path.

And even if I had knowledge to the depths where not a single thing of the Shariah exists but I see it in Quran, I don't want to be taken as a guide or leader or representative, lest people rely on me instead of the rope of God and the leaders he has chosen, and the legacy they have left behind.

The proof for God's leaders is best done by God. Right now I believe there exist many scriptures through out the earth, some known some unkown, that manifest the truth of God's religion.

I truly believed this when I read the Torah and see how misrepresented it is, and realize an essential contradiction in it which the Quran seeks to give insight to through out it's chapters.

The hadiths are a mess mixed with truth and falsehood, and it's not meant to for everyone to come to them at any stage in their life.

But at the end, the endless stream of insights, you have to find a reliable means to remember who we are through them. Yes, these people will be attributed falsehood which is why I will no longer recommend studying either Quran which is mistranslated to the extent slavery is included in it as justified in the past, beating woman is a translation, etc, or hadiths which are full of evil propaganda as well as insights, and those translating them and interpreting them these days hide essential truths in them.

I don't know what to tell a human anymore and what they can to get guided. I don't know myself.

I just know what I must do for myself, and inshallah, in time, I will learn what I Can do for humanity with my skills, reflections, and capabilities, and I seek refuge that I ever try to take the positon of the name of God and name myself with it as many dark mystics have done in the past and misguided people away from the chosen and set by God like Seth and Enoch.

I am sorry for all calls to an abstract religion with no concrete methodology to attain it's true creeds and ways.

I believe in Mohammad whoever he truly was and I believe in his successors whatever they truly taught, without knowing all they taught, and without claiming to not be confused pertaining to what is attributed to them.

I seek refuge from relying on conjecture, and seek guidance by the Quran and the family of that reminder but don't know the method to really be guided in the mess of Shiism today nor know how to go alone and decipher the truth from the falsehood.

I been over all lazy and haven't given the Quran proper right let alone other religions.

That said, I still seek enlightenment and insights to Quran through Ahlulbayt (as).

I will ask the family when I do not know and not rely one anyone else for insight, lest I hear falsehood without the truth refuting it, and not be presented both the poison and the cure.

God bless you all and may he unite us to appreciate words of Jesus and the truth found in the Torah, and may he make us recite his last recitation whatever it may be, with sincerity.

Good luck all and goodbye.

I am glad that you have kept on posting in this forum.....
and I can understand why you might feel like being on these forums too much could be a waste of time..... but I am certain that they are not because I prayed several months ago and asked to receive confirmation if I was going in the right direction with these forums and within days I got several encouraging comments from people who identified as Agnostic or Atheists.

If.... my idea on what the final Elijah must accomplish is at all accurate then
there is a real possibility that Muslims..... might unite around the final Elijah......
but they might think of him as the Mahdi or perhaps the "Jesus of Islam" who is
predicted for the latter days.

The to do list for the final Elijah...... seems "Messianic" to my thinking.......

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48


Who broughtest down kings to destruction, and brokest easily their power in pieces, and the glorious from their bed. [7] Who heardest judgment in Sina, and in Horeb the judgments of vengeance. [8] Who anointedst kings to penance, and madest prophets successors after thee. [9] Who wast taken up in a whirlwind of fire, in a chariot of fiery horses. [10] Who art registered in the judgments of times to appease the wrath of the Lord, to reconcile the heart of the father to the son, and to restore the tribes of Jacob.
 
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Robban

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If you seek to define official beliefs of a religion, you are seeking the end of the rainbow. There is no such thing.

I define a Muslim and Islam in this outward world as in the official religion and it's adherent, those with their tongue testify "There is no god but God and Mohammad is his Messenger". This doesn't imply anything about belief, because we dispute what a god is and what Worshiping God alone means, and we even dispute about what Prophethood means and what Messengerhood means, and we dispute of who Mohammad is and his traits and there is probably not a single thing that unites us belief wise if you were to collect all Muslims and ask them their views.

I realized this is true of every religion including Christianity (trinity is not agreed concept for example).

Therefore these discussions about this religion and that religion, are meaningless.

And testifying to Mohammad being the seal of Prophets is different then other Prophets in the sense, they all didn't need to prove WHY they are the last.

And the most hardest proof is to prove exactly why you are last and no Prophet after you, because it seemingly contradicts the need of Prophets through out time.

And I realize Muslims mostly don't care for proofs regarding why Mohammad is the seal of Prophets and why Quran is to be protected and it's good enough Quran says so, because, of course, they believe Quran is to believed dogmatically as opposed to having insights that proves everything it states including the dark enemy of humanity, magic, etc, and proves everything and doesn't want anything taken for granted.

All in all, because my sect has more than anyone else, made the religion into about humans and idol worship so obvious, I can't call to them.

Nor can I assert that I am a reliable means to guide towards the true creed and it's path.

And even if I had knowledge to the depths where not a single thing of the Shariah exists but I see it in Quran, I don't want to be taken as a guide or leader or representative, lest people rely on me instead of the rope of God and the leaders he has chosen, and the legacy they have left behind.

The proof for God's leaders is best done by God. Right now I believe there exist many scriptures through out the earth, some known some unkown, that manifest the truth of God's religion.

I truly believed this when I read the Torah and see how misrepresented it is, and realize an essential contradiction in it which the Quran seeks to give insight to through out it's chapters.

The hadiths are a mess mixed with truth and falsehood, and it's not meant to for everyone to come to them at any stage in their life.

But at the end, the endless stream of insights, you have to find a reliable means to remember who we are through them. Yes, these people will be attributed falsehood which is why I will no longer recommend studying either Quran which is mistranslated to the extent slavery is included in it as justified in the past, beating woman is a translation, etc, or hadiths which are full of evil propaganda as well as insights, and those translating them and interpreting them these days hide essential truths in them.

I don't know what to tell a human anymore and what they can to get guided. I don't know myself.

I just know what I must do for myself, and inshallah, in time, I will learn what I Can do for humanity with my skills, reflections, and capabilities, and I seek refuge that I ever try to take the positon of the name of God and name myself with it as many dark mystics have done in the past and misguided people away from the chosen and set by God like Seth and Enoch.

I am sorry for all calls to an abstract religion with no concrete methodology to attain it's true creeds and ways.

I believe in Mohammad whoever he truly was and I believe in his successors whatever they truly taught, without knowing all they taught, and without claiming to not be confused pertaining to what is attributed to them.

I seek refuge from relying on conjecture, and seek guidance by the Quran and the family of that reminder but don't know the method to really be guided in the mess of Shiism today nor know how to go alone and decipher the truth from the falsehood.

I been over all lazy and haven't given the Quran proper right let alone other religions.

That said, I still seek enlightenment and insights to Quran through Ahlulbayt (as).

I will ask the family when I do not know and not rely one anyone else for insight, lest I hear falsehood without the truth refuting it, and not be presented both the poison and the cure.

God bless you all and may he unite us to appreciate words of Jesus and the truth found in the Torah, and may he make us recite his last recitation whatever it may be, with sincerity.

Good luck all and goodbye.



hope you show up again mate,
 
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Petros2015

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God bless you all and may he unite us to appreciate words of Jesus and the truth found in the Torah, and may he make us recite his last recitation whatever it may be, with sincerity.

Peace and take care in your travels; may you find what you are looking for.
 
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Eyes wide Open

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I am glad that you have kept on posting in this forum.....
and I can understand why you might feel like being on these forums too much could be a waste of time..... but I am certain that they are not because I prayed several months ago and asked to receive confirmation if I was going in the right direction with these forums and within days I got several encouraging comments from people who identified as Agnostic or Atheists.

If.... my idea on what the final Elijah must accomplish is at all accurate then
there is a real possibility that Muslims..... might unite around the final Elijah......
but they might think of him as the Mahdi or perhaps the "Jesus of Islam" who is
predicted for the latter days.

The to do list for the final Elijah...... seems "Messianic" to my thinking.......

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, Ecclesiasticus Chapter 48

I was concerned about Ask the family’s mental state based on his own admission he was addicted to commenting on here on another thread. Often escaping ones own debate style interaction and creating some stillness and peace brings us to the place we need to be. I viewed him in that light. I find everybody’s input of interest hereabout’s , but for some a rest is required.
 
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