Defiant Oath Keepers founder gets 18 years in prison, longest 1/6 sentence yet

[jayem]

WASHINGTON, May 25 (Reuters) - The founder of the far-right militant Oath Keepers Stewart Rhodes was sentenced to 18 years in prison on Thursday for seditious conspiracy in a failed bid to keep Donald Trump in the White House, marking the longest sentence handed down to date in connection with the Jan. 6 attack...

No one deserves to be locked up more. The judge said this as Rhodes was sentenced:

"I dare say, Mr. Rhodes, and I've never said this about anyone who I've sentenced: You, sir, present an ongoing threat and peril to this country, to the republic and the very fabric of our democracy."

Defiant Oath Keepers founder gets 18 years in prison, longest 1/6 sentence yet

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The guy definitely deserves to do some time for his role in the events that played out.

Although, the sentencing for the Jan 6th goons seems to be disproportionate to the sentences people get for other crimes.

Rhodes gets 18 years...

These guys get 12 & 6 years respectively for dabbling in illegal child videos

https://www.fox4news.com/news/josh-...ppropriate contentography-conviction-extended

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ild-inappropriate contentography/70238351007/

Jacob Chansley got a 3 year sentence (the buffalo guy)

There are armed robbers who get shorter sentences than that



Is it possible that 2 things can be true at the same time?
Being able to acknowledge that people do need to do some time for their role in illegal acts, while still recognizing that there's a political component to this and that it's possible that there's some over-sentencing happening because some folks want to prove a point?

 

[Bradskii]

Am I a bad person because I literally laughed out loud reading this:

'Rhodes, who wears an eye patch after accidentally shooting himself in the face with his own gun...'

 

[Bradskii]

The guy definitely deserves to do some time for his role in the events that played out.

Although, the sentencing for the Jan 6th goons seems to be disproportionate to the sentences people get for other crimes.

Rhodes gets 18 years...

These guys get 12 & 6 years respectively for dabbling in illegal child videos

https://www.fox4news.com/news/josh-...ppropriate contentography-conviction-extended

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ild-inappropriate contentography/70238351007/

Jacob Chansley got a 3 year sentence (the buffalo guy)

There are armed robbers who get shorter sentences than that



Is it possible that 2 things can be true at the same time?
Being able to acknowledge that people do need to do some time for their role in illegal acts, while still recognizing that there's a political component to this and that it's possible that there's some over-sentencing happening because some folks want to prove a point?

Hey, great game. Can I play? Your turn to pick a sentence that you think is justified and then it's my turn to find other sentences that are obviously too lenient in comparison.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Hey, great game. Can I play? Your turn to pick a sentence that you think is justified and then it's my turn to find other sentences that are obviously too lenient in comparison.

Sure....

If you murder or rape someone, or deliberately harm children, you get life in prison.

If you commit a crime that involves physically hurting someone, it should carry a heavier sentence than things like vandalism, property damage, or petty theft.

Nonviolent crimes like things involving drug possession or use shouldn't have a jail sentence at all.

Is there anything I've just said here that you object to?

 

[Yttrium]

The guy definitely deserves to do some time for his role in the events that played out.

Although, the sentencing for the Jan 6th goons seems to be disproportionate to the sentences people get for other crimes.

I dunno about that. I consider the consequences of what he and his buddies might have achieved. Basically turning the US into a dictatorship. Long ago, sedition like that could get you the death penalty. If you prove yourself to be a grave threat to national security, you deserve a lengthy sentence.

But being former military myself, I may be biased about that.

 

[Bradskii]

Sure....

If you murder or rape someone, or deliberately harm children, you get life in prison.

If you commit a crime that involves physically hurting someone, it should carry a heavier sentence than things like vandalism, property damage, or petty theft.

Nonviolent crimes like things involving drug possession or use shouldn't have a jail sentence at all.

Is there anything I've just said here that you object to?

All of it. I asked for specific examples. A sentence. Singular. For a specific crime. IPRIS. Because you've made it too easy. Slapping a child gets you life. Smacking someone in the mouth because he fondled your wife gets you more time than burning down a city block.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I dunno about that. I consider the consequences of what he and his buddies might have achieved. Basically turning the US into a dictatorship. Long ago, sedition like that could get you the death penalty. If you prove yourself to be a grave threat to national security, you deserve a lengthy sentence.

But being former military myself, I may be biased about that.

Do you really think they have the headcount to be able to pull something like that off?

...and given the billions and billions dollars we sink into our military and our defense budgets, and the vast amount of technology we have now in terms of surveillance, it's hard to fathom how any group of 2,000 people (largely disorganized, and clearly without a whole lot of intelligence), speaking in terms of physical force, could represent a grave threat to our national security. In the modern military age, unless you have the military (or at least some of the military) on your side, it's hard to fathom how any group of 2,000 people could really present anything even resembling a national security risk in terms of force.

When I think of ones that could actually present a risk to national security of a country, I think of scenarios like this:

2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would say the rash of examples of current and former elected officials improperly storing classified docs, or hackers/leakers/whistleblowers releasing government secrets, present a greater risk to our national security than rioters.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

All of it. I asked for specific examples. A sentence. Singular.

Okay, if you want a single sentence that I feel was justified...

The sentence for the Oklahoma City Bombing (pick either of the two perps - one got the death penalty, the other got life without parole for their respective roles in the attack)


But this does seem like a deflection...trying to avoid talking about the fact that sentencing seems a tad heavy for the Jan 6 perps, and that it's likely there's a political motivation behind it.

 

[Yttrium]

Do you really think they have the headcount to be able to pull something like that off?

I don't hold their chance to succeed as the standard to punish them. It's the intent that counts.

 

[USincognito]

I'm sure the usual suspects are claiming this is just an act of political persecution.

 

[durangodawood]

I think its hard to compare proper sentences across different categories of crime.

I'm fine with some long time in prison for trying to overthrow our US system of government.

 

[Nithavela]

Good thing he likely can't afford the pardon once Trump is back in office.

 

[Nithavela]

Am I a bad person because I literally laughed out loud reading this:

'Rhodes, who wears an eye patch after accidentally shooting himself in the face with his own gun...'

I think it makes you a wonderful person.

Then again, I want mankind go extinct, so maybe you shouldn't seek my approval.

 

[Bradskii]

Okay, if you want a single sentence that I feel was justified...

The sentence for the Oklahoma City Bombing (pick either of the two perps - one got the death penalty, the other got life without parole for their respective roles in the attack)


But this does seem like a deflection...trying to avoid talking about the fact that sentencing seems a tad heavy for the Jan 6 perps, and that it's likely there's a political motivation behind it.

So how is that sentence equal to a three-strikes sentence, when you can get life for a relatively minor crime?

Look, sentencing is all over the place. I read an article sometime ago when it was shown that judges give longer sentences if they'd skipped breakfast for heaven's sake. It's not a great idea to point to one and compare it directly to another. And not the least of the problem is one's personal opinion on whether you think one crime deserves a greater punishment. It really is subjective.

 

[Blade]

Had to come back and delete my post...well not worth it. The "pattern" is here also. Rhodes also gets mad fun.. sorry laughed at for shooting himself in the eye. This is what some call fake news. Well its true but what was left out was it was .22 that fell and went off.

Its like knowing what happen on Jan 6th not the first time not worse then 9/11 not worse then the Civil War. Yeah those on the left said this. See this same thing has happened before yet it was by Dems and so is it was ok. This also happened again as of late yet again not done by the right so it was not reported on. We all know some on Jan 6th that did things told others to go in more then once yet was never arrested. But many others were for just standing on the grass never going in never saying a word. Two were old people arrested for 30 days yet never once charged. Many others the same yet longer but never charged. How many were charged with the crime they the left called it? How many?

Jan 6th the left hope you don't know how election run. See lets say those that did all that stuff breaking in doing damage and hurting the police did in fact take it over. Did you know it would it can not effect the election. Yeah there was nothing to over turn yet. I have watched read so many posts and never say a word. Its sad that ANYONE in the past has done this set fire to capitals yes? Should not they also be arrested? yeah that never gets talked about. So not here to offend

 

[Bob Crowley]

I think the sentence is a bit tough myself, but it highlights the issue of far right militia groups in the USA.

Category:Right-wing militia organizations in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We've got a number of them in Australia.

I think he'll have plenty of like minded company while he's in prison.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

So how is that sentence equal to a three-strikes sentence, when you can get life for a relatively minor crime?

Look, sentencing is all over the place. I read an article sometime ago when it was shown that judges give longer sentences if they'd skipped breakfast for heaven's sake. It's not a great idea to point to one and compare it directly to another. And not the least of the problem is one's personal opinion on whether you think one crime deserves a greater punishment. It really is subjective.

What's unique about Jan 6th is that some judges themselves have been making statements (that are probably ill-advised for a judge to make) that are demonstrating some bias.

I don't know if it's a great idea for a judge to be making statements to the effect of "Why are you prosecutors making these deals with these people? Why aren't you charging them with even more?"

It's the prosecutors' job to decide what to charge people with (based on what deals they can arrange, and the case they think they can prove). The Judge's job is to interpret the law and preside over the court while the prosecution and defense both make their cases.

Even if the bias their asserting is correct or lines up with what someone believes, I don't think it's a great thing with regards to the public seeing them as unbiased and objective.

D.C. judges express frustration about possible leniency in Capitol riot cases - The Boston Globe

Judges are asking prosecutors why defendants aren’t paying more to cover the cost of damage to the Capitol, why the court can’t order additional supervision of many defendants beyond a brief prison term, and why more do not face heftier charges.

www.bostonglobe.com

 

[Bradskii]

What's unique about Jan 6th is that some judges themselves have been making statements (that are probably ill-advised for a judge to make) that are demonstrating some bias.

I don't know if it's a great idea for a judge to be making statements to the effect of "Why are you prosecutors making these deals with these people? Why aren't you charging them with even more?"

It's the prosecutors' job to decide what to charge people with (based on what deals they can arrange, and the case they think they can prove). The Judge's job is to interpret the law and preside over the court while the prosecution and defense both make their cases.

Even if the bias their asserting is correct or lines up with what someone believes, I don't think it's a great thing with regards to the public seeing them as unbiased and objective.

D.C. judges express frustration about possible leniency in Capitol riot cases - The Boston Globe

Judges are asking prosecutors why defendants aren’t paying more to cover the cost of damage to the Capitol, why the court can’t order additional supervision of many defendants beyond a brief prison term, and why more do not face heftier charges.

www.bostonglobe.com

Investigate this further and you might find that judges are frustrated by the leniency of the punishments they are restricted to pass down. Most people have been charged with misdemeanors and given a fine and released almost immediately for time already served if they had been held in custody. Almost certainly because they would plead guilty to that. And a more serious charge would be contested and would be vastly more time consuming.

And as over 1,000 have been charged, there is an understandable tendency to get what you can as regards the general rioters. But hit the ring leaders very hard indeed.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The guy definitely deserves to do some time for his role in the events that played out.

Although, the sentencing for the Jan 6th goons seems to be disproportionate to the sentences people get for other crimes.

[...]

Is it possible that 2 things can be true at the same time?
Being able to acknowledge that people do need to do some time for their role in illegal acts, while still recognizing that there's a political component to this and that it's possible that there's some over-sentencing happening because some folks want to prove a point?

Harsh sentences are to be expected when you try (and fail) to overthrow the government. It's absolutely political, though perhaps not in the way that you're implying - the government (a political entity) has a vested interest in discouraging people from trying to depose it, and when people do make the attempt, they're made an example of to demonstrate the point that subverting the democratic process (or trying to do so) is a Bad Thing.