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Defending the Bible

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by Tree of Life, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    I'm in the stage of my class where we're talking about criticisms of the Bible and trying to defend against them. Two major ones that come to my mind are these:

    1. The Bible is morally problematic. Objections here would deal with slavery, warfare, ethnic cleansing, gender roles, and homosexuality issues.

    2. The Bible contradicts itself. This would deal with specific alleged contradictions.

    Are there other objections or categories of objections that come to your mind?
     
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  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member Supporter

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    May I suggest that you examine what is morality and where we get morality from, as well as comparing different moralities.

    That you also explain what a contradiction is and is not.

    I'm probably saying what you have already planned on doing.
     
  3. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    Apologetics, reason, logic, and evidence will not sway an unbeliever's current stance. Just like apologetics, reason, logic, and evidence is not what likely brought you to Christ.

    1. Morals are relative. Even if God exists.
    2. Humans can write a perfectly consistence book of fiction.

    Please watch the video now (24 minutes) :)


     
  4. muichimotsu

    muichimotsu I Spit On Perfection

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    And importantly, internal consistency by spinning metaphor or literal interpretations does not make something true, a problem so many forget about the idea of the Bible being anything amazing merely because you can frame it in a way where there are no "contradictions"
     
  5. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    I would add there is not good evidence to believe the supernatural parts of it and some of the stories told in it are true.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Should the title be "objecting to the Bible"?
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Not true as many agnostics who came to the Bible to disprove it - discovered for themselves.
     
  8. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    I believed in the bible and decided to prove it and became an atheist. So what? Just because an agnostic came to believe in the supernatural claims of the bible does not make them true. Provide the good evidence.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    hmmm sounds a bit sketchy -- "how" did you "decided to prove it"?? what proof did you use?

    By contrast the examples I have include a phd in biology who taught graduate level courses and headed research projects for that university, and for his part time enjoyment conducted graduate level discussion seminars where Christians were routinely hammered both in that seminar and in his classes. Resulting in a lot of Christians bailing out and choosing atheism.

    He later found out that the bible was true and went back to that same seminar group presenting the gaps/flaws in the stories of evolution. Near the end of his presentations one of the graduate students stood up and lamented "then I was badgered into giving up my faith in Christ -... for nothing!!??"). Another crisis for that former Christian student. But on the plus side - her professor had found the bible to be true.
     
  10. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    I simply read it and used a proper epistemology. I am not talking about proof, I don't think that is possible with anything. I am talking about a high enough confidence level to become convinced. I became unconvinced after studying the bible ion depth and applying proper tools to determine truth.

    So what? What convinced the professor the bible was true? That is what is important.
     
  11. Par5

    Par5 Well-Known Member

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    The bible is most certainly morally problematic. In fact, I think that is the main problem people have with the book. Sure, you can find problems with contradictions, miracles, and other highly improbable events recorded in the bible, but they pale to insignificance when you consider what it tells us about the biblical god. It is the only source that tells us about the Judeo Christian god. All our knowledge of this god is contained in the bible.
    Professor Dawkins, probably one of the theists most disliked atheists, described the biblical god in his book, The God Delusion, in a very uncomplimentary way, and when you read about the biblical god's actions, it is difficult to disagree with Dawkin's description.
    Christians don't do the bible any favours when they defend the violent actions of their god by saying that he is sovereign and can do whatever he wishes. That everything he does is good, therefore he can do no wrong. Then they say that their god is an all-loving god, so if biblical contradictions are your thing, then that is probably the biggest contradiction of them all.
    I think we all know the biblical accounts I am talking about. The OP has already mentioned them.
    It's a case of trying to defend the indefensible.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    You have free will - you may believe whatever you wish
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    It all started with the book of Daniel
     
  14. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Hide The Pain

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    Thanks for the input. I agree that this is a very common criticism. We will be dealing with the issue of slavery in class because we don't have time to deal with everything.
     
  15. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    This is an untrue statement. I don't choose to believe anything and neither do you. We are either convinced or not convinced of any proposition. I don't think we have free will either but that is another discussion.
     
  16. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    So that is the evidence for belief in the supernatural?
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    to the atheist professor in question - he did not think that it was 'normal' to be able to predict 1000's of years into the future. IN his atheist world that sort of sequence of world empires "predicted" was not something that one would expect/predict based on atheist parameters.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    As I said - believe as you wish and that includes choosing to differ with me.

    we are not talking about knowing that 2+2=4 instead of 2+2=8 here.

    We are talking about roll-your-own cosmic reality based on your preference. We are talking about what you choose to 'believe'. typically one is convinced of something determines i.e. they old to a certain belief. Synonyms for the same thing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
  19. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Daniels prophecies can be convincing until you study them.
     
  20. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    Again, I don't believe as I wish. No one does. I am convinced by evidence (good or bad) or I am not convinced. Just like everyone else.

    No. I don't choose my beliefs as I have stated. No one does. I believe or am convinced or based on good or bad evidence. That belief is never 100% certain. I cannot choose to believe that 2+2=8 in a base 10 system. Can you?
     
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