Deborah a Judge?

[Righttruth]

Deborah was a prophetess and claimed herself as a mother in Israel. I believe, she was doing a kind of work of a lawyer, that is all.

 

[Ken Rank]

Deborah was a prophetess and claimed herself as a mother in Israel. I believe, she was doing a kind of work of a lawyer, that is all.

A "LAWyer" in that day wasn't what we know as a lawyer, the "law" was God's... they were students of Torah. So if she was a judge she was judging matters brought before her as dictated by God's law.

 

[Righttruth]

A "LAWyer" in that day wasn't what we know as a lawyer, the "law" was God's... they were students of Torah. So if she was a judge she was judging matters brought before her as dictated by God's law.

She was an advocate for the Law. But no authority to enforce it. A judge was expected to protect his people and wage battles against enemies.

 

[Ken Rank]

She was an advocate for the Law. But no authority to enforce it. A judge was expected to protect his people and wage battles against enemies.

Using the Torah. Israel didn't have a religious law and a civil law, what was given at Sinai was also for Israel to use as their national rule of law.

 

[Righttruth]

Using the Torah. Israel didn't have a religious law and a civil law, what was given at Sinai was also for Israel to use as their national rule of law.

Right. Deborah only shared it. She had no authority to protect or enforce it.

 

[Ken Rank]

Right. Deborah only shared it. She had no authority to protect or enforce it.

I think Deborah did more than just share it... she stood up when most of the men wouldn't.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I just want to point out that Deborah didn't "claim herself" to be the mother of Israel, she spoke a truth, that there were no leaders until she, a mother in Israel, arose.

That was a simple yet poignant truth and it spoke against Israel at the time and their state, not hers.

She wasn't claiming anything, but she does show you that God will use anyone who is willing to follow His perfect will, no matter who they are.

 

[Righttruth]

I think Deborah did more than just share it... she stood up when most of the men wouldn't.

Yet she had no means to enforce her judgement.

 

[Righttruth]

I just want to point out that Deborah didn't "claim herself" to be the mother of Israel, she spoke a truth, that there were no leaders until she, a mother in Israel, arose.

That was a simple yet poignant truth and it spoke against Israel at the time and their state, not hers.

She wasn't claiming anything, but she does show you that God will use anyone who is willing to follow His perfect will, no matter who they are.

Thanks for your correction. She can be considered as a mother in Israel.

 

[Ken Rank]

Yet she had no means to enforce her judgement.

I think you miss the point of her story. Be blessed.

 

[Righttruth]

I think Deborah did more than just share it... she stood up when most of the men wouldn't.

Agreed. That was not enough to complete the task of a judge of that period.

 

[Righttruth]

I think you miss the point of her story. Be blessed.

I don't think so

 

[Ken Rank]

I don't think so

Which is why I didn't bother to share anything more. You clearly think you know everything on the matter. So why waste my time?

Take care... I won't come back to this thread.

 

[Righttruth]

Which is why I didn't bother to share anything more. You clearly think you know everything on the matter. So why waste my time?

Take care... I won't come back to this thread.

One need to share

 

[JM]

Source: 5 Reasons Deborah Supports Male Leadership - Scott LaPierre

Judges were Israel’s primary rulers for almost three-and-a-half centuries. They also commanded armies, making them some of Scripture’s strongest leaders. So why did Deborah serve as judge? Her position is often the first mentioned to support female leadership. Does she conflict with God’s pattern of male leadership? Let’s take a look!

1. There’s no mention of Deborah being appointed by God
Throughout the book of Judges, as men rise to leadership, verses identify them as chosen or empowered by God:

• Judges 3:9—The Lord raised up a deliverer . . . Othniel.
• Judges 3:15—The Lord raised up a deliverer . . . Ehud.
• Judges 6:14—The Lord [said to Gideon], “Go in this might of yours, and you shall save Israel . . . Have I not sent you?”
• Judges 11:29—The Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah.
• Judges 13:24–25—Samson . . . grew and the Lord blessed him. And the Spirit of the Lord began to move upon him.

But with Deborah there is no recognition of God’s appointing. Judges 4:4 simply says, “Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time.” Her introduction emphasizes that she is female, but in a negative light. Wayne Grudem, co-founder of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, explains in Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth (p. 134):

Judges 4:4 suggests some amazement at the unusual nature of the situation in which a woman actually has to judge Israel, because it piles up a string of redundant words to emphasize that Deborah is a woman. Translating the Hebrew text literally, the verse says, ‘And Deborah, a woman, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she was judging Israel at the time.’ Something is abnormal, something is wrong—there are no men to function as judge! This impression is confirmed when we read of Barak’s timidity and the rebuke he receives as well as the loss of glory he could have received.

2. Deborah’s ministry was private versus public
Judges 4:5 says Deborah “would sit under the palm tree . . . And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.” The nation approached her privately. She didn’t publicly teach God’s Word. Like Huldah and other prophetesses, she is another example of a woman limited to private and individual instruction. Even when Deborah calls for Barak, Judges 4:6–7 shows her speaking to him privately:

Then she sent and called for Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali, and said to him, “Has not the Lord God of Israel commanded, ‘Go and deploy troops at Mount Tabor; take with you ten thousand men of the sons of Naphtali and of the sons of Zebulun; and against you I will deploy Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude at the River Kishon; and I will deliver him into your hand’?”

3. Deborah encouraged Barak to lead
Notice several phrases in the above verses:

• The statement “Has not the Lord God of Israel commanded?” shouldn’t be understood as Deborah giving orders to Barak. As a prophetess, she received a word from God and passed it along to Barak. She confirmed what he already should have known, that God commanded him to lead the army.
• The directive, “Go and deploy troops,” is particularly significant because Deborah was judge at the time. She was in the position typically occupied by Israel’s commander. But rather than summon the troops herself, she let Barak know that God called him to command them.
• The phrase, “against you I will deploy Sisera,” reveals God’s plan for Sisera to attack Barak, not Deborah.
• “I will deliver him into your hand” indicates God wanted Barak, and not Deborah, to claim victory over Sisera.

All this shows that even while serving as judge, Deborah affirmed the rightness of male leadership, not only looking to Barak to lead but letting him know this was what God wanted. Sadly, Barak didn’t step up but instead told Deborah, “If you will go with me, then I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go” (Judges 4:8). We recognize something isn’t right when a man tells a woman, “I won’t go to battle unless you go with me.”

4. Deborah rebuked Barak for failing to lead
Not surprisingly, Deborah confronted Barak about his reluctance: “I will surely go with you; nevertheless there will be no glory for you in the journey you are taking, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman” (Judges 4:9). Deborah’s prophecy came true. God routed Sisera’s army before Barak, but it was a woman, Jael, who ended up defeating the enemy commander (Judges 4:17–22). Barak should not have insisted Deborah accompany him but instead taken leadership himself.

This entire account is not advocating for female leadership but is instead presented as a criticism of Barak. The book of Judges records some of Israel’s worst days, and the absence of male leadership is a strong reflection of the time. Deborah’s judgeship actually served as a rebuke to the nation regarding the absence of male leadership. Later, during another dark period in Israel’s history, the prophet Isaiah asserted that women ruling was a sign of God’s judgment: “As for My people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths” (Isaiah 3:12).

5. Deborah and Barak are descriptive, not prescriptive
The book of Judges describes the breakdown of leadership among God’s people: “In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6, 18:1, 19:1, 21:25). In general the book of Judges is presented as an example not to follow; it is not prescriptive.

Is there application for today? Definitely:

• When men need their wives to tell them to take the family to church, pray, or read the Word, they are acting like Barak.
• When a wife is urging her husband to lead and a husband resists or prefers that his wife take charge instead, he is following Barak’s example.

If there is an example to be followed here, it is Deborah. She encouraged Barak to lead, told him what God desired of him, and rebuked him when he would not take charge. It is also worth noticing what she did not do. When Barak refused to lead, she did not take control of the situation herself but rather let God direct Barak’s steps and victory. Her story should motivate women to do what she did, and Barak’s failure should motivate men to avoid the mistakes he made.

 

[Righttruth]

Source: 5 Reasons Deborah Supports Male Leadership - Scott LaPierre

Judges were Israel’s primary rulers for almost three-and-a-half centuries. They also commanded armies, making them some of Scripture’s strongest leaders. So why did Deborah serve as judge? Her position is often the first mentioned to support female leadership. Does she conflict with God’s pattern of male leadership? Let’s take a look!

1. There’s no mention of Deborah being appointed by God
Throughout the book of Judges, as men rise to leadership, verses identify them as chosen or empowered by God:

• Judges 3:9—The Lord raised up a deliverer . . . Othniel.
• Judges 3:15—The Lord raised up a deliverer . . . Ehud.
• Judges 6:14—The Lord [said to Gideon], “Go in this might of yours, and you shall save Israel . . . Have I not sent you?”
• Judges 11:29—The Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah.
• Judges 13:24–25—Samson . . . grew and the Lord blessed him. And the Spirit of the Lord began to move upon him.

But with Deborah there is no recognition of God’s appointing. Judges 4:4 simply says, “Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time.” Her introduction emphasizes that she is female, but in a negative light. Wayne Grudem, co-founder of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, explains in Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth (p. 134):

Judges 4:4 suggests some amazement at the unusual nature of the situation in which a woman actually has to judge Israel, because it piles up a string of redundant words to emphasize that Deborah is a woman. Translating the Hebrew text literally, the verse says, ‘And Deborah, a woman, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she was judging Israel at the time.’ Something is abnormal, something is wrong—there are no men to function as judge! This impression is confirmed when we read of Barak’s timidity and the rebuke he receives as well as the loss of glory he could have received.

2. Deborah’s ministry was private versus public
Judges 4:5 says Deborah “would sit under the palm tree . . . And the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.” The nation approached her privately. She didn’t publicly teach God’s Word. Like Huldah and other prophetesses, she is another example of a woman limited to private and individual instruction. Even when Deborah calls for Barak, Judges 4:6–7 shows her speaking to him privately:

Then she sent and called for Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh in Naphtali, and said to him, “Has not the Lord God of Israel commanded, ‘Go and deploy troops at Mount Tabor; take with you ten thousand men of the sons of Naphtali and of the sons of Zebulun; and against you I will deploy Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his multitude at the River Kishon; and I will deliver him into your hand’?”

3. Deborah encouraged Barak to lead
Notice several phrases in the above verses:

• The statement “Has not the Lord God of Israel commanded?” shouldn’t be understood as Deborah giving orders to Barak. As a prophetess, she received a word from God and passed it along to Barak. She confirmed what he already should have known, that God commanded him to lead the army.
• The directive, “Go and deploy troops,” is particularly significant because Deborah was judge at the time. She was in the position typically occupied by Israel’s commander. But rather than summon the troops herself, she let Barak know that God called him to command them.
• The phrase, “against you I will deploy Sisera,” reveals God’s plan for Sisera to attack Barak, not Deborah.
• “I will deliver him into your hand” indicates God wanted Barak, and not Deborah, to claim victory over Sisera.

All this shows that even while serving as judge, Deborah affirmed the rightness of male leadership, not only looking to Barak to lead but letting him know this was what God wanted. Sadly, Barak didn’t step up but instead told Deborah, “If you will go with me, then I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go” (Judges 4:8). We recognize something isn’t right when a man tells a woman, “I won’t go to battle unless you go with me.”

4. Deborah rebuked Barak for failing to lead
Not surprisingly, Deborah confronted Barak about his reluctance: “I will surely go with you; nevertheless there will be no glory for you in the journey you are taking, for the Lord will sell Sisera into the hand of a woman” (Judges 4:9). Deborah’s prophecy came true. God routed Sisera’s army before Barak, but it was a woman, Jael, who ended up defeating the enemy commander (Judges 4:17–22). Barak should not have insisted Deborah accompany him but instead taken leadership himself.

This entire account is not advocating for female leadership but is instead presented as a criticism of Barak. The book of Judges records some of Israel’s worst days, and the absence of male leadership is a strong reflection of the time. Deborah’s judgeship actually served as a rebuke to the nation regarding the absence of male leadership. Later, during another dark period in Israel’s history, the prophet Isaiah asserted that women ruling was a sign of God’s judgment: “As for My people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, and destroy the way of your paths” (Isaiah 3:12).

5. Deborah and Barak are descriptive, not prescriptive
The book of Judges describes the breakdown of leadership among God’s people: “In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6, 18:1, 19:1, 21:25). In general the book of Judges is presented as an example not to follow; it is not prescriptive.

Is there application for today? Definitely:

• When men need their wives to tell them to take the family to church, pray, or read the Word, they are acting like Barak.
• When a wife is urging her husband to lead and a husband resists or prefers that his wife take charge instead, he is following Barak’s example.

If there is an example to be followed here, it is Deborah. She encouraged Barak to lead, told him what God desired of him, and rebuked him when he would not take charge. It is also worth noticing what she did not do. When Barak refused to lead, she did not take control of the situation herself but rather let God direct Barak’s steps and victory. Her story should motivate women to do what she did, and Barak’s failure should motivate men to avoid the mistakes he made.

Thank you. It very closely conforms with my understanding.

 

[Sam91]

Wikipedia states "The biblical text does not generally describe these leaders as "a judge", but says that they "judged Israel", using the verb שָׁפַט (š-f-t).[12][page needed] Thus, Othniel "judged Israel" (Judges 3:10), Tola "judged Israel twenty-three years" (Judges 10:2), and Jair judged Israel twenty-two years (Judges 10:3)."

So I went to the end of Deborah's song and it only said that Israel had peace for 40 years.

However, she did lead/judge Israel and is included in the list of Judges. God chose her to do so because He did. It is likely that she was the best choice there. His glory shone through her and I am glad her story is in the Bible. I think men these days, maybe some in this thread, would have preferred it to have been taken out of the old texts.

God chose Deborah to do His will. He included it in His word. He included some other heroic and godly women in it too, Ruth, Abigail etc. Abigail was wiser than Nabal, I have yet to hear a sermon on that, funnily enough.

 

[Sam91]

." And Deborah, a prophetess--A woman of extraordinary knowledge, wisdom, and piety, instructed in divine knowledge by the Spirit and accustomed to interpret His will; who acquired an extensive influence, and was held in universal respect, insomuch that she became the animating spirit of the government and discharged all the special duties of a judge, except that of military leader.
the wife of Lapidoth--rendered by some, "a woman of splendors."

5. she dwelt under the palm tree--or, collectively, "palm-grove." It is common still in the East to administer justice in the open air, or under the canopy of an umbrageous tree."
Judges 4 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

III. Israel judged by Deborah (v. 4, v. 5)
Judges 4 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)

Verse 4
[4] And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time.

A prophetess — As there were men-prophets, so there were also women-prophetesses, as Miriam, Exodus 15:20. Huldah, 2 Kings 22:14, and divers others; but the word prophets or prophetesses is ambiguous, sometimes being used of persons extraordinarily inspired by God, and endowed with the power of working miracles, and foretelling things to come; and sometimes of persons endowed with special gifts or graces, for the better understanding and discoursing about the word and mind of God. Of this sort were the sons of the prophets, or such as were bred in the schools of the prophets. who are often called prophets, as 1 Samuel 10:5,10. And because we read nothing of Deborah's miraculous actions, perhaps she was only a woman of eminent holiness, and knowledge of the holy scriptures, by which she was singularly qualified for judging the people according to the laws of God.

Judged Israel — That is, determined causes and controversies arising among the Israelites, as is implied, verse 5. And this Jabin might suffer to be done, especially by a woman. Yet the frequent discharge of this part of the judge's office, whereby she gained great power and authority with the people, did notably (though not observed by the tyrant) prepare the way for her sliding into the other part of her office, which was to defend and rescue the people from their enemies

Judges 4 Bible Commentary - Wesley’s Explanatory Notes

I shall refrain from saying anything about it myself and give you explanations uttered by men instead.

 

[Righttruth]

Wikipedia states "The biblical text does not generally describe these leaders as "a judge", but says that they "judged Israel", using the verb שָׁפַט (š-f-t).[12][page needed] Thus, Othniel "judged Israel" (Judges 3:10), Tola "judged Israel twenty-three years" (Judges 10:2), and Jair judged Israel twenty-two years (Judges 10:3)."

So I went to the end of Deborah's song and it only said that Israel had peace for 40 years.

However, she did lead/judge Israel and is included in the list of Judges. God chose her to do so because He did. It is likely that she was the best choice there. His glory shone through her and I am glad her story is in the Bible. I think men these days, maybe some in this thread, would have preferred it to have been taken out of the old texts.God chose Deborah to do His will. He included it in His word. He included some other heroic and godly women in it too, Ruth, Abigail etc. Abigail was wiser than Nabal, I have yet to hear a sermon on that, funnily enough.

Everything is OK. Judge in that period had dual duty. The most important and crucial was protecting his people and subdue or eliminate the enemies in the promised land. Deborah did only one part. She needed Barak to do the important and difficult task.