Debating the Existence of the Pre-Trib Rapture

[seventysevens]

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.

I presume you are post trib view , ?
I have only 1 question to ask

 

[john alexander]

But the Great Tribulation is the most severe testing of all mankind since the creation
to test those who have rejected Christ
Do you believe in the Harpazo at all?
You love to twist the scriptures rather than understand them

The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God

 

[john alexander]

I don't want an article just YOUR view , are you post trib?
I am very well versed in this

The Great Tribulation occurs before Yahshua 's second advent

 

[john alexander]

The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God

The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God

If anything the Great Tribulation is to test those who Claim to be Christians

For a false Christ and a false prophet shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:22 (KJV)

 

[seventysevens]

The Great Tribulation occurs before Yahshua 's second advent

Yes but it is initiated by Yeshua cause by Him and the second advent is not the harpazo

 

[seventysevens]

If anything the Great Tribulation is to test those who Claim to be Christians

No it is to test those who refuse to be Christians

 

[john alexander]

Yes but it is initiated by Yeshua cause by Him and the second advent is not the harpazo

 

[seventysevens]

If anything the Great Tribulation is to test those who Claim to be Christians

For a false Christ and a false prophet shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mark 13:22 (KJV)

Do you have a post trib view ?

 

[john alexander]

Christ said, "when you see these things come to pass then look up for your redemption is at hand." These things represent the events of the great tribulation, so then the Pre tribulation Rapture deception represents yet another false teaching.

When we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord (2 Cor 5:8). However, at the end of this age, we shall be with Him in a transformed spirit, soul and body (1 Thes 5:23).

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The timing of when the Elect are changed is obviously at the end of the tribulation period, which has a duration of three and one-half years.

The article that dispels the myth of a 7 Year Tribulation entitled, He shall Confirm The Covenant with Many, as well as access to all of the works listed below, are now only available to members (available only at christiantruthproject.com) click here for the link

• New Covenant Of Christ
• Old Testament Law fulfilled in Christ
• The true Israel of God is revealed
• The Redeemed of the Lord shall return to Zion
• Gathering of Israel
• Let the redeemed of the Lord say so
• He shall Confirm The Covenant with Many
• He as God Sits in The Temple Of God
• The Revelation of Mystery Babylon

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 10:7, refers to Rev 11:15, which is the seventh trumpet. This is also a reference to the last trumpet mentioned in 1Cor 15:52.

The last trump is at the end of The Great Tribulation period on earth, when we shall be changed, and put on incorruption and immortality. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception is a heresy and is one of many false beliefs adhered to by those who are merely playing church.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Our Redemption and Salvation are one in the same and are realized upon Christ’s second coming. Where our Lord is, there also is His kingdom. His first coming was to allow for our Salvation, and the second will be to reward the Elect with Salvation.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which are dead in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead in Christ, are the first to put on incorruption and immortality. Contrary to the Pre tribulation Rapture deception teaching, Christ descends from heaven with the Elect, He does not take anyone up to Heaven (1 Cor 15:42-53, 1 Thes 4:13-17).

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

Christ does not bring the Saints and Angels with Him to earth, to turn around and take them up to heaven. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception story quickly loses credibility in light of the true teachings of Christ Jesus.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

If we truly were taken to heaven as taught by the Pre tribulation Rapture deception group, Christ would not need to bring anyone to earth.

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the cloud, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This verse above is the primary one used by those who teach the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. After the tribulation, the Lord returns in a cloud, and all eyes shall see Him (Rev 1:7). There is no secret gathering, and Christ only returns once in a very visible manner. It also should be noted that Christ will return to this earth a second time, and nowhere in scripture is it ever implied that He ever returns to Heaven.

Mark 13:24-26 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

 

[john alexander]

• We are not taken up to the kingdom of heaven, but rather Christ brings the kingdom to us.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven (Matt 6:10).

• Wherever Christ is there the Elect will be also, the Elect are the ones left behind. Those taken are ushered into hell, to await the second death (Rev 19:20, 20:6, 20:10-15).

• The elect are to reign with Christ for a thousand years. There is only one resurrection for those who are accounted worthy to reign with Christ. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires two resurrections. (Rev 20:5-6. Luke 20:35-36).

• The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires a third advent of Christ, which is not taught as a true doctrine.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Words of Truth that Jesus spoke do not allow for the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. This fairy tale is not a part of the Gospel message.

We need to receive His Word in our hearts as well as our minds. As well, it is essential to allow Christ’s Holy Spirit to dwell within us, so as to understand his Word. This indwelling does not automatically happen just because we know of Him.

To claim that all who accept Christ are Born again is another misguided and deadly deception of the false teachers. To be Born Again is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and when this gift has been received the understanding of the Word of God becomes possible. Once we have this understanding, the Pre tribulation Rapture deception is easily recognized as another false teaching.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[seventysevens]

I asked you a simple point blank question 3 times and you refuse to answer it
Is it really too difficult to answer a straight forward question

 

[seventysevens]

You apparently only post bogus web articles , anyone who thinks the great trib is for Christians is way out of touch with what scripture teaches

 

[john alexander]

John 10:12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

The wolf raptures the sleepy sheep

Acts 8:39-40 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

Philip was raptured but he was not taken to Heaven

1 Thess 4:17 (Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Christ's faithful, the Elect are also raptured, but they are not taken to Heaven, as Christ comes down from Heaven to reign with his Elect on earth.

What type of bible are you all reading anyhow?

 

[john alexander]

I asked you a simple point blank question 3 times and you refuse to answer it
Is it really too difficult to answer a straight forward question

77 don't be rude just because I won't go along with your theory

 

[seventysevens]

77 don't be rude just because I won't go along with your theory

Not being rude , you being disrespectful ignoring a question while you post articles that are not in alignment with TRUE scripture , I typically use KJV but others as well
it seems you simply misunderstand what you read , besides you are being rude when you insult people just cause you see things differently differently to say the least

 

[seventysevens]

Easy to show that Jesus harpazo the saints up into clouds where he takes into heaven
Then at the end of the Great Trib the saints come down out of heaven with Yeshua
at his 2nd advent , no 3rd advent , you got to learn what scripture say and not pay attention to writers who only push their personal view

 

[BABerean2]

You apparently only post bogus web articles , anyone who thinks the great trib is for Christians is way out of touch with what scripture teaches

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.　

A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of Christ's Church, revealed by Him in Matthew chapter 16.

Rev 12:12　 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.　

At least part of the tribulation period is Satan's wrath upon the Church.


Rev_1:9　 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Christ saved your immortal soul.
He did not save your mortal flesh body.

.

 

[Douggg]

The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God

John, what happened to your other threads? The thread you started on Revealing Revelation has seemed to have disappeared.

 

[seventysevens]

Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.　

A person cannot be under the Blood of the Lamb and not be under the Grace of Christ's Church, revealed by Him in Matthew chapter 16.

Rev 12:12　 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.　

At least part of the tribulation period is Satan's wrath upon the Church.


Rev_1:9　 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Christ saved your immortal soul.
He did not save your mortal flesh body.

.

Tribulation is most certainly NOT the rapture and you need to understand that tribulation is simply hardships in life that all people must endure , the GREAT TRIBULATION that Jesus speaks of is a very specific 'hour' a very specific time frame that will happen Only to people who have either rejected Christ as savoir , or people who simply thought it was not important matter putting it off and the put it off to far , or people that accepted Christ but pushed him aside in pursuit of some sinful lifestyle that God does not accept
People who accepted Jesus the Messiah as Lord and savoir and have been 'born again' are people who overcame by the blood of the lamb
You are missing the most important scripture if you desires to speak of the rapture

 

[BABerean2]

Tribulation is most certainly NOT the rapture and you need to understand that tribulation is simply hardships in life that all people must endure , the GREAT TRIBULATION that Jesus speaks of is a very specific 'hour' a very specific time frame that will happen Only to people who have either rejected Christ as savoir , or people who simply thought it was not important matter putting it off and the put it off to far , or people that accepted Christ but pushed him aside in pursuit of some sinful lifestyle that God does not accept
People who accepted Jesus the Messiah as Lord and savoir and have been 'born again' are people who overcame by the blood of the lamb
You are missing the most important scripture if you desires to speak of the rapture

I did not mention the rapture.

I showed that Christians are being persecuted during the tribulation period in the Book of Revelation.

The text of Revelation 12:11 is clear on this matter.

Christians are gathered to Christ on the last day of the tribulation period, found in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 5.
It occurs on the day of the Lord when He comes as a thief.
The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the two chapters are connected.


Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, it is clearly a Second Coming event.

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