Debating the Existence of the Pre-Trib Rapture

[john alexander]

Hello, I am a 19-year-old fellow Christian, and I have plenty of concerns regarding the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (PTR).

Matt, first of Blessings to you as you study to show yourself approved, We all need to rightly divide the Word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).

This rapture question that many argue for or against is really quite simply answered by our teacher who is the very Word of God. Forget about the doctrines of man what did Yahshua say?

1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The timing of when the Elect are changed is obviously at the end of the tribulation period, which has a duration of three and one-half years.

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 10:7, refers to Rev 11:15, which is the seventh trumpet. This is also a reference to the last trumpet mentioned in 1Cor 15:52.

The last trump is at the end of The Great Tribulation period on earth, when we shall be changed, and put on incorruption and immortality. The Pre tribulation Rapture is impossible for many reasons but those who are unable or unwilling to suffer for their Messiah have bought into this get out of dodge pre-trib rapture theory!

Hey, don't get me wrong I too would love it if I did not have to face the persecution during this time of trouble unlike any other before it!!

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Our Redemption and Salvation are one in the same and are realized upon Christ’s second coming. Where our Lord is, there also is His kingdom. His first coming was to allow for our Salvation, and the second will be to reward the Elect with Salvation.

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which are dead in Jesus will God bring with him.

The dead in Christ, are the first to put on incorruption and immortality. Contrary to the Pre tribulation Rapture deception teaching, Christ descends from heaven with the Elect, He does not take anyone up to Heaven (1 Cor 15:42-53, 1 Thes 4:13-17).

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

Christ does not bring the Saints and Angels with Him to earth, to turn around and take them up to heaven. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception story quickly loses credibility in light of the true teachings of Christ Jesus.

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

If we truly were taken to heaven as taught by the Pre tribulation Rapture deception group, Christ would not need to bring anyone to earth.

1 Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the cloud, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This verse above is the primary one used by those who teach the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. After the tribulation, the Lord returns in a cloud, and all eyes shall see Him (Rev 1:7). There is no secret gathering, and Christ only returns once in a very visible manner. It also should be noted that Christ will return to this earth a second time, and nowhere in scripture is it ever implied that He ever returns to Heaven.

Mark 13:24-26 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

To attempt to justify a Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires the destruction of a lot of Scripture

• We are not taken up to the kingdom of heaven, but rather Christ brings the kingdom to us.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven (Matt 6:10).

• Wherever Christ is there the Elect will be also, the Elect are the ones left behind. Those taken are ushered into hell, to await the second death (Rev 19:20, 20:6, 20:10-15).

• The elect are to reign with Christ for a thousand years. There is only one resurrection for those who are accounted worthy to reign with Christ. The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires two resurrections. (Rev 20:5-6. Luke 20:35-36).

• The Pre tribulation Rapture deception requires a third advent of Christ, which is not taught as a true doctrine.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The Words of Truth that Jesus spoke do not allow for the Pre tribulation Rapture deception. This fairy tale is not a part of the Gospel message.

We need to receive His Word in our hearts as well as our minds. As well, it is essential to allow Christ’s Holy Spirit to dwell within us, so as to understand his Word. This indwelling does not automatically happen just because we know of Him.

To claim that all who accept Christ are Born again is another misguided and deadly deception of the false teachers. To be Born Again is synonymous with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and when this gift has been received the understanding of the Word of God becomes possible. Once we have this understanding, the Pre tribulation Rapture deception is easily recognized as another false teaching.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[john alexander]

As it Was in The Days of Noah So Shall it Be When Jesus Returns One Shall Be Taken
In the days of Noah, the earth was filled with violence, and all flesh was destroyed except for eight people. Upon Christ’s second coming, it will be as it was in the days of Lot and Noah; One shall be taken to inherit destruction. This is the unfortunate fate for all who have not found protection in Christ.

Matt 24:39-40 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

When Christ returns a second time, one shall be taken, but not to heaven. They are actually taken to Hell, to await the final judgment after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Those left behind will remain on earth. This is the exact opposite of what the pre-tribulation rapture movement teaches. It is simply amazing how many buy into this grievous fable.



John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

There is not one Bible verse that suggests we are ever to go up to heaven with resurrected bodies. This transformation happens at the last trumpet judgment when the Elect reign with Christ on a new earth.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

When our inheritance or treasure is mentioned in association with Heaven, it always refers to one of two promises. The crown of righteousness which is our Salvation is the reward given to the Elect at Christ's second coming. The New Jerusalem which comes down from Heaven represents our final dwelling place with Jesus after His millennium reign on earth (1 Thes 4:15-17).

2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

The apostle Paul clearly points out that he will receive the crown of righteousness at the same time as all those that love Christ's appearing do. This occurs upon Christ's return to the earth. To imagine that one shall be taken to receive the reward of eternal life before the tribulation, while the apostle waits until the end of the tribulation for his is preposterous.

2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

 

[Douggg]

The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.

It is a theory regarding the timing of the rapture, not a deception. The rapture could happen pretrib, i.e. pre70th week is actually what is intended by the term, a misnomer; or it may not.

 

[Biblewriter]

There is not one Bible verse that suggests we are ever to go up to heaven with resurrected bodies. This transformation happens at the last trumpet judgment when the Elect reign with Christ on a new earth.

When you say this, you seem to be neglecting the very, very, many passages that very explicitly describe an earthly kingdom after the Lord comes, and before the earth is destroyed and remade. These scriptures fill about a fourth of the Old Testament, as well as parts of the New. And many of them are explicitly stated in plain words.

 

[BABerean2]

pre70th week is actually what is intended by the term

Based on Acts 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and John 10:5-7, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week of Daniel was a time that the Gospel was taken first to the Israelites, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

.

 

[Douggg]

Based on Acts 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and John 10:5-7, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week of Daniel was a time that the Gospel was taken first to the Israelites, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

.

Are you sure that is not according to BAB2's interpretation, maybe ?

Daniel 8, in the 2300 days is when the little horn - not Jesus - stops the daily sacrifice. So it not just an intepretation of Daniel 9.

The 70th week will begin. On day 220, the sacrifices by the Jews (not Christians) in a temple built by the Jews (not Christians) will begin again by the Jews (not Christians). In the middle part of the 70th week, the little horn person (in the role of being the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel) stops the daily sacrifice and commits the transgression of desolation.

The remainder of 2300 days end when Jesus returns.

 

[BABerean2]

Are you sure that is not according to BAB2's interpretation, maybe ?

Daniel 8, in the 2300 days is when the little horn - not Jesus - stops the daily sacrifice. So it not just an intepretation of Daniel 9.

The 70th week will begin. On day 220, the sacrifices by the Jews (not Christians) in a temple built by the Jews (not Christians) will begin again by the Jews (not Christians). In the middle part of the 70th week, the little horn person (in the role of being the Antichrist, illegitimate King of Israel) stops the daily sacrifice and commits the transgression of desolation.

The remainder of 2300 days end when Jesus returns.

I was born after 1599.


From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.



Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion
against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.
I was not a part of the team that published the NKJV Bible.

.

 

[Douggg]

I was born after 1599.


From the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America


Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.



Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion
against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


The scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.
I was not a part of the team that published the NKJV Bible.

.

I will accept the fact that you were born after 1599.

But your interpretation of Daniel 9 does not correspond to the temple becoming desolate in the end times in Daniel 8 by the little horn.

Plus there is the abomination of desolation in the end times in Daniel 12.

There are two desolating of the temple events forthcoming.

1. the transgression of desolation - the act of 2thessalonians2:4

2. the abomination of desolation - the image made of the beast in Revelation 13

 

[john alexander]

When you say this, you seem to be neglecting the very, very, many passages that very explicitly describe an earthly kingdom after the Lord comes, and before the earth is destroyed and remade. These scriptures fill about a fourth of the Old Testament, as well as parts of the New. And many of them are explicitly stated in plain words.

And those passages are?

 

[john alexander]

Based on Acts 10:38, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and John 10:5-7, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week of Daniel was a time that the Gospel was taken first to the Israelites, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

.

I imagine you can make the word say whatever you want Just ignore the passages regarding the two witnesses

 

[BABerean2]

I imagine you can make the word say whatever you want Just ignore the passages regarding the two witnesses

Are these two men made of wood and metal, or are they a symbol of something else?

Do we ignore what Paul and Jesus said?


Rev 11:4　 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.　


Rom 11:24　 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?　



Rev 1:20　 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.　


Pastor Carl Gallups of Hickory Hammock Baptist Church:

 

[john alexander]

Hello, I am a 19-year-old fellow Christian, and I have plenty of concerns regarding the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (PTR).

The tribulation is Not the Wrath of Yahshua (Jesus) The Wrath of god is the eternal separation of the ungodly from the just!!

The Thousand Year Reign of Christ and the restoration
There are several Bible verses that seem to describe the complete annihilation of planet earth at the end of this age. Although there will be significant destruction that occurs during the end of this age, the earth is not completely destroyed. Christ will return to restore and rebuild His Kingdom. Would the Lord God that Created all things, desire the second gathering of Israel to inherit destruction?

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The judgment is primarily against the ungodly men, who are the workers of iniquity. The earth (or land) and the works that are therein shall be burnt up, but we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness (2 Peter 3:10-13). We must not forget Christ's promise to the Elect that His Kingdom will be established on earth.

Matt 13:39-40 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

As it was in the days of Lot and Noah, so shall it also be when Christ returns. He will destroy all of the wicked. The ones that are left behind are considered righteous and faithful, and they represent the second gathering of Israel. Those that are taken represent the workers of iniquity.

The pre-tribulation rapture deception most assuredly is not something that Christ ever alluded to. At the end of the Great Tribulation period, which is three and a half years in duration, the rapture or gathering of the Elect unto Christ will occur (Luke 17:26-37). This Rapture unto the Lord is when the Elect will reign with the Lord on earth for 1000 years.

Isaiah 65:17-18 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

The gathering of Israel will involve a new creation by the Lord. The people will build houses, and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of thereof.

In the second creation, after the thousand year reign of Christ, the Lord provides His people with a complete city already built for them called the New Jerusalem (Isaiah 65:21-22; Rev 21:10-23).

The curse has devoured the earth (or land), and they that dwell therein are desolate, therefore the inhabitants of the earth are melted (or burnt like kindling), and there are few men left (Isaiah 24:6). However Christ will bring about the promised gathering of Israel, and the righteous shall shine as the sun (Mat 13:43). The Lord will Reign in Mount Zion, which is in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Look up to the heavens, and look upon the earth below, for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth will become old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner...(Isaiah 51:6).

The true gathering of Israel, will not be a temporary time of Joy, it will be unto everlasting life with Yahshua (Jesus).

Isaiah 51:11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

The Redeemed of the Lord represents the second gathering of Israel unto Redemption which is the promise of Salvation and the eternal inheritance with Jesus.

The Thousand Year Reign of Christ- the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
God who in the past spoke to us through His prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son. During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, He who is appointed as heir of all things will also be recognized as the one who made all things (Heb 1:1-2).

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

The Thousand Year Reign of Christ is a literal event that occurs upon this present earth with the existing heavens and seas, although there will be many changes that occur. There are only two complete creation events, and a restoration of the first creation is necessary to repair the damage done to what once was a beautiful planet.

In the first creation, God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1). Mankind can choose evil or righteousness during this time period.

After the Thousand Year Reign of Christ occurs the existing Heaven and Earth will fade away. Then shall the New Jerusalem that Jesus prepared for His children be revealed. This final and eternal destination is reserved for His Elect. The righteous will enter into a timeless, sinless and eternal fellowship with the Lord God.

There are many unique features of this second creation, that are very different from that of the first.

• There is no more sea (Rev 21:1).
• The first heaven and earth are replaced by the second after the millennial reign of Christ, and the New Jerusalem descends from Heaven (Rev 21:2).
• There is no longer a sun nor a moon (Rev 21:23).
• There is no longer night or darkness (Rev 21:25).
• The only ones who occupy New Jerusalem are those whose names are written in the Lambs Book of Life (Rev 21:27).
• There shall be no more curse (Rev 22:3).
• The righteous shall have access to the Tree of Life (Rev 22:2).

During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, there are several characteristics that show that this creation of a new heaven and earth (or land), is a restoration of the first creation, and not the second creation.

• We look forward to a new heaven and earth where Christ will bring in everlasting righteousness (2 Peter 3:13; Dan 9:24).
• There are seas during this time period, but the second earth has the River of the Water of Life (Rev 20:13; Rev 21:1; Rev 22:1, 2, 17).
• There still are tears shed, sorrow to be had, and death still occurs (Rev 21:4; Isa 65:20).
• This time is an answer to our prayer: thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Mathew 6:10).
• The Elect will receive a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to all that love his appearing (2 Tim 4:8).
• There are still seasons (Zec 14:8).
• The remnant of the nations that came against Jerusalem will come to worship Christ in Jerusalem (Zec 14:16-17).
• Not all reign with Christ and those that disobey will be punished ( Zec 14:17-19).
• Those of the nations will learn the ways of the Lord (Isa 2:2-3).
• During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, those who were slain for the Word of Christ live and reign with Him (Rev 20:4). This is the promised inheritance that the Elect who are Sealed with the Holy Spirit receive at His coming (Eph 1:13; Eph 3:6; 1 John 2:25).

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The great flood was necessary to remove all things that were an offense to God. Likewise, at the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, the new heavens and earth that Christ creates at His second coming are cleansed of iniquity and all things that offend.

Matt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity

The Thousand Year Reign of Christ is a time for the Redeemed that will Inherit Zion. The Elect who are also God's chosen ones will take part in the true second gathering of the Israel of God.

Posted by john alexander from the article entitled The Thousand Year Reign of Christ

 

[BABerean2]

During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, there are several characteristics that show that this creation of a new heaven and earth (or land), is a restoration of the first creation, and not the second creation.

• We look forward to a new heaven and earth where Christ will bring in everlasting righteousness (2 Peter 3:13; Dan 9:24).
• There are seas during this time period, but the second earth has the River of the Water of Life (Rev 20:13; Rev 21:1; Rev 22:1, 2, 17).
• There still are tears shed, sorrow to be had, and death still occurs (Rev 21:4; Isa 65:20).
• This time is an answer to our prayer: thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Mathew 6:10).
• The Elect will receive a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to all that love his appearing (2 Tim 4:8).
• There are still seasons (Zec 14:8).
• The remnant of the nations that came against Jerusalem will come to worship Christ in Jerusalem (Zec 14:16-17).
• Not all reign with Christ and those that disobey will be punished ( Zec 14:17-19).
• Those of the nations will learn the ways of the Lord (Isa 2:2-3).
• During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, those who were slain for the Word of Christ live and reign with Him (Rev 20:4). This is the promised inheritance that the Elect who are Sealed with the Holy Spirit receive at His coming (Eph 1:13; Eph 3:6; 1 John 2:25).

How do we know that a doctrine is correct?
It does not produce conflict with other passages.

Based on Hebrews 10:16-18, "everlasting righteousness" was brought in at the covenant established at Calvary, because there are no more sacrifices for sin.

Revelation 21:4 says there will be no more death. You said the opposite above.

Our promised inheritance is eternal, instead of 1,000 years.

Will Christ be conducting funeral services during your version of the millennium?
Where will the person's soul go, since Christ will be on earth.


Christ returns in "flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians chapter 1, at His future Second Coming.

When does the fire come in Revelation chapter 20?

How do you handle the nations, and wrath, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, which is described by Christ in John 5:27-30?

What is the first resurrection found in John 5:24?

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on "the day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief".
This connects the timing of the event to the famous passage of 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 and to Revelation 16:15-16. The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.

You were doing very well when speaking on the false pretrib doctrine, but have gotten off the path in the millennium.

I love you, Brother.

 

[john alexander]

How do we know that a doctrine is correct?
It does not produce conflict with other passages.
My reply to your excellent questions will be in red.

Based on Hebrews 10:16-18, "everlasting righteousness" was brought in at Calvary, because there are no more sacrifices for sin.

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them
Heb 10:16 (KJV)

Everlasting righteousness will be established for the elect during the 1000 year reign. This is as a result of Yahshua reigning as King of kings.
We do not have that righteousness now nor does Hebrews allude to your premise.

Revelation 21:4 says there will be no more death. You said the opposite above.

I said nothing of the sort.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:3-4 (KJV)

Our promised inheritance is eternal, instead of 1,000 years.
For the Elect this is true, all who are in Yahshua are the Elect!

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people
Luke 1:68 (KJV)
The Israel of God are the faithful followers of Yahshua

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
Gal 6:15-16 (KJV)

Jews for Jesus claim the best of both worlds in their vain imaginations. They say that they are the Bride of Christ alone, and that they also claim a separate destiny as the chosen ones
Both utter lies but the Judeo-Christian church has bought into these grievous lies!
Yahshua came to redeem all of his people and there is no difference between Judeans or Greeks!

How do you handle the nations, and wrath, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18, which is described by Christ in John 5:27-30?

What is your question? Handle what?
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth
Rev 11:18 (KJV)

What is the first resurrection found in John 5:24?

This resurrection does not occur until Yahshua's second advent.

This represents the Salvation of the Elect All who are in Christ

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24 (KJV)


Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth on "the day of the Lord" when He "comes as a thief".

During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, there are several characteristics that show that this creation of a new heaven and earth (or land), is a restoration of the first creation, and not the second creation.

• We look forward to a new heaven and earth where Christ will bring in everlasting righteousness (2 Peter 3:13; Dan 9:24).
• There are seas during this time period, but the second earth has the River of the Water of Life (Rev 20:13; Rev 21:1; Rev 22:1, 2, 17).
• There still are tears shed, sorrow to be had, and death still occurs (Rev 21:4; Isa 65:20).
• This time is an answer to our prayer: thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven (Mathew 6:10).
• The Elect will receive a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give to all that love his appearing (2 Tim 4:8).
• There are still seasons (Zec 14:8).
• The remnant of the nations that came against Jerusalem will come to worship Christ in Jerusalem (Zec 14:16-17).
• Not all reign with Christ and those that disobey will be punished ( Zec 14:17-19).
• Those of the nations will learn the ways of the Lord (Isa 2:2-3).
• During the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, those who were slain for the Word of Christ live and reign with Him (Rev 20:4). This is the promised inheritance that the Elect who are Sealed with the Holy Spirit receive at His coming (Eph 1:13; Eph 3:6; 1 John 2:25).

This connects the timing of the event to the famous passage of 1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 and to Revelation 16:15-16. The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that chapter 5 is connected to chapter 4.

What is your question?

You were doing very well when speaking on the false pretrib doctrine, but have gotten off the path in the millennium.

 

[Biblewriter]

And those passages are?

There are so very many of them that a review of just the most important ones takes abuot thirty to forty posts. I did this once, so rather than doing it again, I will link to it here.

The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures

 

[seventysevens]

Do you believe in a Harpazo at all ?

 

[seventysevens]

The tribulation is Not the Wrath of Yahshua (Jesus) The Wrath of god is the eternal separation of the ungodly from the just!!
The Pre tribulation Rapture deception allows for a certain group to escape the judgment, which is impossible.

Christ

But the Great Tribulation is the most severe testing of all mankind since the creation
to test those who have rejected Christ
Do you believe in the Harpazo at all?
You love to twist the scriptures rather than understand them

 

[john alexander]

Do you believe in a Harpazo at all ?

Oh Yes Sir I most certainly Do!!
This is the reason why I press on friend.
The Hope of my Salvation.

Isaiah 11:10-11 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Mark 13:26-27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[john alexander]

77's Sorry in my haste I missed your first question I 'll post an article explaining the difference -The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God, represent two unique events

 

[seventysevens]

77's Sorry in my haste I missed your first question I 'll post an article explaining the difference -The Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God, represent two unique events

I don't want an article just YOUR view , are you post trib?
I am very well versed in this