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Featured Debating the Existence of the Pre-Trib Rapture

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Matisyahu8898, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    No. It is the explicitly stated word of God.
     
  2. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Where?
     
  3. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    What do you call the last day ? Exactly when do you think it happens ?
     
  4. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    The last day. As there was a first day in Genesis, and only eternity before that, so there will be a last day with only eternity after that. Simple.
     
  5. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    Everything he said was extracted from Zechariah, Isaiah, and Revelation. It's all there.
     
  6. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    The temple that will soon be built will be defiled by the Son of Perdition who declares that throne to be his own as he declares that he is god and demands that all worship him as god - will be destroyed - no Jesus will not be using that as his temple throne as he will establish one for himself that has not been defiled

    In all your proclamations none of you ever step up and actually make a real case for your position

    Where do you place satan being judged in relation to when it will happen -
    simple analogy if you are in the middle of an arena during a convention of food products and have a bowl of cereal with bananas in it but you choose to say there are no bananas in the bowl while masses of other people can see there really are bananas in it - the only thing you accomplish is showing the masses you choose not to see what is really there
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The text says that the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever", at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.

    A few verses later we find the nations and the time of the judgment of the dead.
    This is when both the quick and the dead will be judged along with Satan and the angels who followed him. This agrees with Christ's words in John 5:27-30, and Matthew 25:31-46, and 2 Timothy 4:1, and many other passages.


    Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 
    Rev 11:16  And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 
    Rev 11:17  Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 
    Rev 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 

    .
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is exactly the opposite of the truth. I have repeatedly posted scriptures that explicitly state that there will indeed be a future kingdom on this earth. And not a single amil here has posted even one scripture which actually says anything that disproves this. They cannot do this, because there are no such scriptures. All you can post are scriptures that you choose to interpret to mean that this cannot happen.
     
  9. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

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    Are they published ? if so by who ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  10. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I did have a book published - End Times Truth; Xlibris publishers. 2012
    But I have a better understanding of God's plans now and have clarified it, mostly to prove who is the Israel of God today.

    All my articles are on my logostelos.info website, free to read and download.
    FYI, it was while I was in Israel, that I received the inspiration to write out what the Prophets have told us, I couldn't have done what I have without the Lord's help.
    Also Keras is my actual surname, [son of kerras] which means 'messenger or herald' in Hebrew.
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Parallels of Judgement:
    In ancient times, God looked upon the earth and saw how wicked people had become, how their every thoughts and inclinations were opposed to His Laws, Genesis 6:5-8. He regretted that He had made mankind and decided to annihilate them, however there was one man who was righteous. In order to save Noah, his family and the creatures and so as to ensure that life would continue, God directed Noah to build a huge vessel that would be their means of survival. They all lived on board this ark for over a year, but the time of the actual devastation was for 40 days and 40 nights.

    Once again, the world is in a similar state; Matthew 24:37-44 As in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Keep alert, for He will come unexpectedly.

    This prophecy isn’t referring to the Return of Jesus in His glory, because here He calls Himself ‘the Son of Man’. At the Return, in Revelation 19:13 He is called ‘the Word of God’ and note that He comes then ‘robed in a garment splashed in blood’. Isaiah 63:1-6 tells us how His clothes have become blood stained: it is in the previous event where He comes as ‘the Son of Man’ to judge and punish the nations. 2 Samuel 22:8-12, Psalms 18:7-15, Revelation 6:12-17 + describe this terrible judgement by fire and how the Lord will not be seen at this time.
    It will be the Sixth Seal devastation of the Middle East and all the earth will be affected by the blazing punishment that God has in His storehouse for His great Day of vengeance and wrath. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Isaiah 66:15-17

    There are many prophecies that inform us about this sudden and shocking Day, vividly described to us as a Coronal Mass Ejection, a sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26
    As with the great Flood, most people are totally unaware of any impending disaster, although it is obvious to all that the world cannot continue as it is at present for much longer.

    So a great reset of civilization will happen again, but this time a fair proportion of the world’s population will survive because God promised to never again destroy all the earth as He did in Noah’s time. Genesis 9:15
    Then, it may be after 40 days, that the call will go out to the Lord’s faithful Christian people to travel to and gather in the holy Land. Zechariah 10:8-12 Wait for the whistle!

    Pray and trust in the Lord for His protection.
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    2Ti 4:1  I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

     
    I believe what Timothy believed.
    How about you?


    .
     
  13. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Sad part is, they really believe all that, no joke!
     
  14. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    We believe it because the scriptures do not just "teach" it, or say things that we interpret to "mean" it. But because the scriptures explicitly say it.
     
  15. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    It is indeed true that Revelation 20 uses a term, "a thousand yeas," that other scriptures use as a figure of speech for simply "a very long time." But this term is only used in three of the six places where a "thousand years" is mentioned. In all three of the other times, the term is not "a thousand years," but "the thousand years." In both Greek and Hebrew, the lack of a definite article is not significant for it is implied without its being said. But an inclusion of the definite article is significant. That changes the term from a general thousand years of some type, to a specific thousand year period. In all three of these cases, the Greek word "the" is specifically included in the Greek text. So it unquestionably refers to a specific period of a thousand years.
     
  16. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Matthew 25:31-46 not only shows the "Second Advent"verse 31, and "Final Judgment" in verse 46, but shows the "Eternal Kingdom" in verse 34

    Human life of flesh and blood, does not exist beyond the "Second Advent", "Final Judgment", and "Eternal Kingdom" :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  17. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    This is not what this scripture says. It is an interpretation of what it means. And that interpretation is contrary to the explicit statements of very many scriptures, including all of the last third of Ezekiel, and much of Isaiah and Zechariah.

    Just as an example of one small part of what is explicitly stated, read this section:

    13 Thus says the Lord GOD: "These are the borders by which you shall divide the land as an inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel. Joseph shall have two portions. 14 You shall inherit it equally with one another; for I raised My hand in an oath to give it to your fathers, and this land shall fall to you as your inheritance. 15 This shall be the border of the land on the north: from the Great Sea, by the road to Hethlon, as one goes to Zedad, 16 Hamath, Berothah, Sibraim (which is between the border of Damascus and the border of Hamath), to Hazar Hatticon (which is on the border of Hauran). 17 Thus the boundary shall be from the Sea to Hazar Enan, the border of Damascus; and as for the north, northward, it is the border of Hamath. This is the north side. 18 On the east side you shall mark out the border from between Hauran and Damascus, and between Gilead and the land of Israel, along the Jordan, and along the eastern side of the sea. This is the east side. 19 The south side, toward the South, shall be from Tamar to the waters of Meribah by Kadesh, along the brook to the Great Sea. This is the south side, toward the South. 20 The west side shall be the Great Sea, from the southern boundary until one comes to a point opposite Hamath. This is the west side. Ezekiel 47:13-20

    Here we have an explicit statement of a time when the nation of Israel will have a specific, well defined, border. and the description is so detailed that, even today, it is possible to draw a map of these borders. We know that, from the day these words were spoken to the present, Israel has never had these borders. So we know it is future. And the language does not contain even one "if" clause. It simply says "these are the borders by which you shall divide the land."

    And almost the entire next chapter is devoted to specifying how this specific plot of real estate is to be divided among the twelve tribes, with a royal section and a holy section reserved in the middle.

    Now all this is either true or it is not true. there can be no middle ground. And it is simply impossible to logically argue that this is merely symbolic. The very language used does not allow such an imagination. For it simply says that this will be.

    And this is typical of very many other such explicitly stated prophecies. There is simply no way around them, either they are true, or they are not true. And if they are not true, then the Bible did not come from God. This theory destroys the very fundamentals of the Christian faith.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Joshua 21
    43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
     
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  19. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Matthew 25:31-46 jesus returns in the final judgment eternal kingdom, verse 46 "Eternal Punishment" "Eternal Life"
     
  20. Truth7t7

    Truth7t7 Newbie

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    Ezekiel Chapter 47 you claim is A Millennial Kingdom on earth, where humans of flesh and blood dwell?

    Ezekiel Chapter 47 you present is the "Eternal Kingdom" :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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