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DEBATE - br Dimond vs dr Fastiggi

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by catholics7777, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. catholics7777

    catholics7777 New Member

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    The traditional Catholic, Brother Peter Dimond of the Most Holy Family Monastery, called into this Saturday's "reason and theology" LIVE YouTube show to confront Dr Robert Fastiggi on his claim that protestants and the orthodox are within the body of Christ. Br Peter enters the discussion at around 1:12:50.



    Please listen in and give your thoughts on the discussion. Thank you.
     
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  2. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    I don't know who Dr Robert Fastiggi is. It would be really interesting if the Eastern Orthodox picked out their champion to challenge against James White.
     
  3. Dropout_Theologian

    Dropout_Theologian Not an ant in God's glorious library. Supporter

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    I think a protestant view would be that the Catholic church is a religious organization, not THE religious organization. I durst not say more because I doubt I would be helpful.
     
  4. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Dimonds are so traditional they reject the current Pope.

    Sede vacantism is NOT traditional by any means.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    according to that audio they reject all popes after VaticanII and hold that all the popes prior to vatican II rejected the orthodox church whereas all popes after VII apparently side with Pope Francis who goes so far as to say any baptized person is in the body of Christ -- which is not what you find the Popes saying prior to VII.
     
  6. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    You know, I feel for people who prefer the Tridentine Mass and can't find a place that performs one. But I started realizing a while back that Catholic, meaning "of the whole", really loses that meaning in the midst of division and divisive behavior. If we are not working to build up the Body of Christ, we are probably working against it. So Sedevacantism is the opposite to me of true Catholicism.
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Thanks to whoever posted this - very informative
     
  8. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Actually, they don't even attend that.

    They go to a Byzantine rite church on Sunday, but they don't use the Horologion.
     
  9. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    Strange. I understand that liturgy can develop; but since Trent there has been a recognition that it is needful to have common worship practices to promote a unity of faith. It seems strange to ignore such an ancient form of liturgy (had to look it up, so thank you for the education) for something new. I have had a chance to talk to and listen to the chanter at our local Greek Orthodox church. He has been studying and using the Byzantine chants. Truly beautiful; but so much more complex than simple plain chant.
     
  10. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Latin plainsong and Byzantine Chant (and its derivatives, Slavic chants), are simply descendants of the original Jewish liturgical chant.

    Your comment about common worship is necessary to have the same faith is typical Latin thinking, and the reason behind the one time Latinization of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
     
  11. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was speaking purely about the Latin church. At the time of Trent, within the Latin Church, there were different forms of the mass in different areas. To promote a common front and a common face during the Counter-Reformation, they ruled at Trent that a common mass would be defined and practiced by all the Latin Churches and that regional variations would not be allowed. This is often used today by Sedevacantists as an apologetic for showing that Trent is the only approved form of the mass within the Latin Church and that the Novus Ordo is illicit. But of course this whole line of thinking ignores the fact that there has never been a single valid rite of worship within Catholicism with all of the Eastern Catholic Rites having their own forms of worship. What is odd to me is that usually the Traditional Catholics are adamant against change. So Brother Peter Dimond doesn't seem to fit the normal mold of an Ultratrad.
     
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