Death Toll To Go Up 65% By The End Of October

[KCfromNC]

Seems like Fauci is being treated as the inerrant, 'dear leader' and ultimate authority on COVID-19 public policies. Science doesn't work like that. There are hundreds, if not thousands of doctors and epidemiologists, with 20 plus years practice, who disagree with Fauci on many fronts.

Here would be a good chance to link to their peer-reviewed published research on topics you think we might find important.

 

[istodolez]

Like I said, there are hundreds, if not thousands of others in the same healthcare profession, with 20+ years

To be honest I'm going to wait until you show me ample evidence that Fauci is somehow "out of the mainstream" among health professionals in their guidance in dealing with COVID.

And, the actual "science denial" is the politicization of science. I'm not decided on the whole thing. I want all the data, from a neutral position, in context,

In a very real sense you already have that. We all do. Of course it means reading the detailed SCIENCE and not just the interpretation from talking heads. The fact of the matter is that most of us lack the background knowledge of the science to understand it at that level.

so I can make informed decisions. I think most rational people want that. So, please stop insulting my intelligence by dismissing everything I say as 'fringe' or science denial.

I only compared your points to science denialism because you used phrases and concepts that are straight out of the playbook. You couldn't even make your point without it somehow winding up with scientists saying things in ways you didn't like because they "hate Trump".

The only science denial involved is the lopsidedness, with no intellectual curiosity to even question it or look at opposition research.

Are you a healthcare professional? I'm only asking because I'm NOT, but I AM a research scientist with a couple decades experience under my belt so I know the science game. I realize my own limitations in looking at epidemiological data and realize I couldn't really afford to be a "skeptic" simply because I lack the detailed understanding.

Again, to use the "climate denial" topic (an area I am far more comfortable with in terms of understanding the science) it is like someone siding with the tiny minority of views over the vast majority of scientists and them calling it "skepticism". If one is uninformed in an area the skepticism questioning the "consensus" is not "skepticism", it's confirmation bias seeking.

When I get time, I'll post multiple citations of what I'm talking about.

I would be very interested.

In the meantime, you can find it for yourself, (if you have any intellectual curiosity and can get past the politics).

LOL. I've got more experience with literature searches than most (guessing more than you) but since I didn't make YOUR claims I don't have to back them up.

 

[istodolez]

(Removed)

 

[LostMarbels]

That's not going to happen, you know that. Right?

Honestly... it doesn't matter when we do.

Imagine being born in 1900! How soft is the modern world that we complain about wearing a mask?

 

[istodolez]

(Off topic)

 

[LostMarbels]

Oh, so sorry! I hope you feel happier soon.

Couldn't be better. Thanx.

 

[istodolez]

(Off topic)

 

[LostMarbels]

I was just thinking how nice it was of you to personally insult me when I bothered to try to engage you scientifically on the masks thread.

Glad things are going well for you.

You get what you give. Sometimes, when people play stupid games, they win stupid prizes. Let's not act like either of us are saints. I'm not going to just be dumped on.

And thank you.

 

[CitizenD]

the single greatest policy failure in the last 50 years. Try to support that statement.

140k Americans are dead and another 60-80k are going to die in the next month due entirely to policy failure.

Name a bigger policy policy failure.

Trump handed this off to Pence 3 months ago and has been golfing and stirring up scandals ever since. If he can't slur it or use it to self promote, he loses interest.

 

[Allandavid]

Seems like Fauci is being treated as the inerrant, 'dear leader' and ultimate authority on COVID-19 public policies. Science doesn't work like that. There are hundreds, if not thousands of doctors and epidemiologists, with 20 plus years practice, who disagree with Fauci on many fronts. The public isn't getting the full story. And as far as misinformation goes, a few months ago, Fauci misinformed the public about wearing masks, claiming that unless you're infected, you really don't have to wear them, that they are ineffective, plus people fidgeting with the mask and touching their face in the process, would increase the chances of getting infected. Then he said it was the N-95 masks that were in shortage for medical personnel. Before that, Fauci relied on erroneous projections, claiming that 1.5 to 2.3 million Americans would be killed by the virus this year. Then you have Hydroxycloriquin, where there hasn't been any major issues since the 1950's. But since Trump shared what he'd been told about it, all of a sudden its bad, because, well, if Orange Man Bad said it, it must be bad. Lot's of lives could have been saved. But, no. The seething hatred of Trump, trumps public health, and prevents intellectual curiosity. Then you have - Trump rallies spread COVID-19, but protesters and rioters not a big deal.

There is no consensus among the scientific community about everything Fauci claims. The scientific method has been abandoned. The public needs to hear from all sides, in context, in order to form an informed opinion. And the mainstream media isn't helping with that. They're only giving one side of the story.

ETA - There are several other examples of misinformation I could mention. I'll just add the glaring example of Nancy Pelosi, who in late Feb was having a good old time in San Francisco's Chinatown, in her effort to virtue signal by discrediting Trump. Nothing to see here!

Argue with Fauci all you like...but you can’t argue with the numbers...

 

[disciple Clint]

And he pretty much screwed the pooch when he did that. I was talking about him doing something positive for once.

What was not positive in getting additional resources to battle covid?

 

[disciple Clint]

Sure. For example he also encouraged his followers to liberate their states.

There is always something to blame someone for isn't there?

 

[disciple Clint]

This, too, is a very good question. Americans who tend to adhere to a strict set of rules in regards to their perception of "personal freedom" but who also lack sufficient education or even self-reflection to realize that they are not necessarily acting in a logical manner will tend to vote for political leadership which is either itself uneducated and less rational OR is happy to leverage an uneducated and irrational base to act against their own self-interest.

But by the same token, leadership, once elected, must act for all Americans and thereby giving support to behaviors which are irrational or show a lack of understanding of the topic.

We can easily lay blame on both sides, but in the end the role of government is to pool our resources and moderate our individual behaviors by setting a course and steering to that goal.

The American people voted to put Mr. Trump in office and his administration has access to vast amounts of data and information. How they address issues which they hear about long before any of us do will set the tone of the response. Mr. Trump has, at his disposal, a large array of tools which, if properly marshalled could have helped us get ahead of this second spike in the first wave. But he didn't.

But you are also 100% correct when you note individual's culpability with mass protests and gatherings which exposed more people. Others gathered together in arenas to cheer the PResident and they helped spread the disease. The president and his administration have consistently created the false idea that people could get back to normal (lack of leadership) but by the same token people who oppose the president still acted in ways against their interests.

who also lack sufficient education or even self-reflection to realize that they are not necessarily acting in a logical manner will tend to vote for political leadership which is either itself uneducated and less rational

The old all Trump supporters are uneducated or stupid or both is not only a lie but an insult to nearly 63 million people.

 

[Nithavela]

The old all Trump supporters are uneducated or stupid or both is not only a lie but an insult to nearly 63 million people.

I'd assume that some of them are very smart people.

 

[disciple Clint]

140k Americans are dead and another 60-80k are going to die in the next month due entirely to policy failure.

Name a bigger policy policy failure.

Trump handed this off to Pence 3 months ago and has been golfing and stirring up scandals ever since. If he can't slur it or use it to self promote, he loses interest.

I am not certain what a policy policy is but if we are dealing with presidential failures, try these. Epic Fails of U.S. Presidential History

 

[Jimmy D]

I am not certain what a policy policy is but if we are dealing with presidential failures, try these. Epic Fails of U.S. Presidential History

An irrelevant list of some guys who failed to get elected as president, is that the best you can do? Or didn’t you actually read it?

 

[disciple Clint]

An irrelevant list of some guys who failed to get elected as president, is that the best you can do? Or didn’t you actually read it?

show me your list.

 

[driewerf]

140k Americans are dead and another 60-80k are going to die in the next month due entirely to policy failure.

Name a bigger policy policy failure.

Trump handed this off to Pence 3 months ago and has been golfing and stirring up scandals ever since. If he can't slur it or use it to self promote, he loses interest.

Trump has not been golfing! He wrote so himself on twitter:

I know many in business and politics that work out endlessly, in some cases to a point of exhaustion. It is their number one passion in life, but nobody complains. My “exercise” is playing, almost never during the week, a quick round of golf. Obama played more and much longer....
...rounds, no problem. When I play, Fake News CNN, and others, park themselves anywhere they can to get a picture, then scream “President Trump is playing golf.” Actually, I play VERY fast, get a lot of work done on the golf course, and also get a “tiny” bit of exercise. Not bad!

This was written and posted the 12th of July, a day that 58.000 new cases were recorded and 381 peopel died. (source; Worldometer).

 

[disciple Clint]

Trump has not been golfing! He wrote so himself on twitter:

This was written and posted the 12th of July, a day that 58.000 new cases were recorded and 381 peopel died. (source; Worldometer).

OK so tell me how many people would have died if Trump was sitting in his office that day? How many would have died if he had been golfing? My answer would be 381 what is your answer. The entire government does not stop when Trump golfs, all the people working on the Covid problem still work on the problem regardless of where he is or what he is doing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What was not positive in getting additional resources to battle covid?

Be specific.