Death Penalty

tall73

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Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Some believe that it is sinful to kill someone in God's image, but this text takes the opposite view. It is so terrible to kill a person in God's image that it requires a severe penalty.

Another text, in the NT that shows a possible death penalty:

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The sword is described as something that the government bears as God's agent of wrath as part of their role in punishing wickedness.

While I am aware of texts where mercy was extended (John's story of the woman caught in adultery, Paul, David, etc. ), and I believe murder can be forgiven, I am not sure that God ever changed His word on the general penalty for murder. He specificially forgave David so that he would not die.

Therefore I lean death penalty, with the idea that if at all possible repentance should be sought. They may bear penalties in this life for their actions but salvation is certainly possible.

On the other hand, I am open to other views from the Scriptures if a better case can be made.
 
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NightEternal

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Absolutely I support the death penalty in specific cases. Our criminal laws here in Canada are soft, bordering on pathetic. As a result, we have become a haven to the most vile sorts of individuals, especially those who victimize children.

When there is guilt proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and the crime is severe enough, the sentence should be immediate and final. The same day. None of this countless appeals stuff where the whole thing is stretched out for years, meanwhile the murderer is living in what resembles more of a country resort than a penitentary.

I think many lawyers who defend this scum should probably also join thier clients in the electric chair as well.

We have an individual up here by the name of Paul Bernardo, who imprisoned, degraded, sodomized, raped repeatedly, tortured and finally brutally murdered two teenage girls with the help of his girlfriend Karla Homoka.

She has served a petty sentence and is now walking the streets of Montreal free as a bird and starting a new life.

He is still in 'prison' on a life sentence, enjoying color TV, steak dinners and inappropriate contentography that is smuggled in for him.

He should have been taken out in the street and shot like the animal he is. That would still have shown him more dignity and mercy he showed his victims.

Justice is a complete joke up here.
 
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honorthesabbath

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The bible specifically tells us that in order to put someone to death or even bring them to trial--there must be 2 or 3 EYE witnesses. Heresay in God's court is not an option.

Also--in light of all the false accusations and false convictions in this country--I would be very leary of the death penalty. I have heard of too many cases of innocent people going to the death chamber. Sometime go to the "Innocense Project's" web sites and read the horror stories of men and women who almost lost their lives (most lost their freedom for 10-20-30 yrs) before DNA freed them! But what about those who were not lucky enough to have had DNA evidence to clear them? They ROT in prisons or they DIE!!

So Cliff--IF we could be sure BEYOND a SURE DOUBT of a person's guilt--then I cannot at this time support the death penalty. Not with the corruption that prevails in our courts--no way!!
 
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djconklin

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IF we could be sure BEYOND a SURE DOUBT of a person's guilt--

Currently, the rule of law is that in order to convict anyone for any crime one must be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, we have too many people who err in the extreme on both sides! Some won't convict unless they are as sure as they are about the sunrise--that's why the anti-SDA/EGW critics never tell one of their own to stop making wild, unfounded claims. Others would convict at the drop of a hat based just on how the accused "looks." We see the later in the wild claims made against EGW. So, sometimes you can see the same person on both sides of "doubt."
 
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honorthesabbath

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Currently, the rule of law is that in order to convict anyone for any crime one must be sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, we have too many people who err in the extreme on both sides! Some won't convict unless they are as sure as they are about the sunrise--that's why the anti-SDA/EGW critics never tell one of their own to stop making wild, unfounded claims. Others would convict at the drop of a hat based just on how the accused "looks." We see the later in the wild claims made against EGW. So, sometimes you can see the same person on both sides of "doubt."
Exactly dj--this is why I cannot support the death penalty at this time in the USofA!!!!
 
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Sophia7

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Last year I was called for jury duty in a federal capital case. I had to go through a rigorous process of filling out an extensive questionnaire (about 30 pages of questions on my religious beliefs, life experiences, education, work history, family background, etc.). Then I was called back to be personally interviewed in the courtroom by the judge, the prosecuting attorney, and the defense attorney. They asked me questions for about an hour. It was definitely the most intensive and personal and exhausting interview I've ever had. I found out later (when I was finally dismissed from service and allowed to read the news again) that I had most likely been released, in the final process of narrowing down the jury, by the defense attorney. I knew that he thought I was too pro-death-penalty because he was the one who spent the most time asking me questions, and they focused mainly on that issue.

I was quite relieved to not have to serve on the actual jury because although I do believe that some crimes warrant capital punishment, I wouldn't want to be the one to have to make the decision to end someone's life. I could do it if I believed it was the right thing to do, but I wouldn't want to be forced into that position.

My experience did give me a better understanding of how the process works, though. It is not something that is taken lightly by anyone involved, including the jury. It takes years for one of these cases to come to trial (so much for swift justice). It takes many months to select a jury, and the judge and the attorneys make as certain as possible that the jurors will consider all of the evidence before reaching a verdict and that none of the jurors are likely to make a snap decision or be unable to stand alone even if everyone else disagrees with them. The jurors are carefully instructed on what it means to find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If they do find the defendant guilty, then they have to go into the final phase of the trial to decide on the sentence--life in prison or death--based on the aggravating and mitigating factors.

No legal system is perfect, and I know that injustices happen sometimes, but after being involved in the jury-selection process and being instructed on all of the legal things that we were supposed to know to be good jurors, I understand how much effort is involved in trying to ensure a fair trial. I still believe that the death penalty is an appropriate sentence for some crimes, and I uphold the instruction given in Romans 13:
RO 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
 
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I know of a jury that admitted after finding the defendant guilty of some of the charges, that they basically did a "pick and choose" of what charges they found him guilty of.

In fact, one of the charges they found him guilty of didn't even get brought into the trial, yet they found him guilty anyway.

They told the lawyers after the trial that they didn't want to be responsible for letting a possible sex offender go, even though they were all sure that the child was lying and being coached.

That's not justice.

I'm with Honor. If you go to the Innocence Project website, you'll see case after case of innocent people losing decades of their lives (or their entire life) in prison.

There's no excuse for that, and no amount of money can buy back the things an innocent person loses.

I'd love to be on a jury right now. One thing they certainly don't tell you is that you do not have to listen to the judge. You can vote from your conscious.

Another thing they don't always tell jurors is what the sentence will be if they convict...and they won't tell you if the defendant has passed up several plea bargains.

I think a jury should be FULLY informed, or there's not a remote chance of justice.
 
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smooze

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BE careful the law makers take on a big burden with God. Jesus said HE came to earth to remind us of HIS laws and not to twist it to justify . Beware we don't want to fall into the trap of accusations or who are we if we sit in the seat of mockers. I say let lawmakers and lawbreakers lay where they fall as christians we need to be in the world but not of the world. basically we should pray for all and suffer in humility that GOd has us all in HIS hand and know that HE is just .
 
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Sophia7

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One thing they certainly don't tell you is that you do not have to listen to the judge. You can vote from your conscious.

I'm sure that federal capital cases are different from state non-capital cases in many respects, so I am speaking only of my own experience. The jury does have to listen to the judge's instructions, but he doesn't tell them what to decide. One thing that the judge specifically told us that we would have to do if selected for the jury was to vote based on what we believed was right, in accordance with the law. If a potential juror believed that law and conscience would be in conflict, he or she would have been excused.

Also, in a capital case the jury has to recommend a sentence of death or life in prison if they find the defendant guilty, so they are fully informed of that upfront and rigorously questioned about how they would make such a decision.
 
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TrustAndObey

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I'm sure that federal capital cases are different from state non-capital cases in many respects, so I am speaking only of my own experience. The jury does have to listen to the judge's instructions, but he doesn't tell them what to decide. One thing that the judge specifically told us that we would have to do if selected for the jury was to vote based on what we believed was right, in accordance with the law. If a potential juror believed that law and conscience would be in conflict, he or she would have been excused.

Also, in a capital case the jury has to recommend a sentence of death or life in prison if they find the defendant guilty, so they are fully informed of that upfront and rigorously questioned about how they would make such a decision.

Oh yeah, then state cases are A LOT different. Jurors do not get to know the sentence that will be handed down if they find the defendant guilty. They also don't get to know if the defendant said no to several plea bargains.

Have you ever heard of FIJA? It stands for FULLY INFORMED JURY ASSOCIATION. It's worth everyone's time to read it.

Jurors can not only decide what they think the law IS, they can change the laws. Fact.

www.fija.org

There's some great information on there about being on a Grand Jury.

There's a lawyer in Colorado that recently defended a woman (and won) because she was thrown in jail when she voted not guilty as a juror.

It's a crazy world we live in indeed.
 
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honorthesabbath

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Oh yeah, then state cases are A LOT different. Jurors do not get to know the sentence that will be handed down if they find the defendant guilty. They also don't get to know if the defendant said no to several plea bargains.

Have you ever heard of FIJA? It stands for FULLY INFORMED JURY ASSOCIATION. It's worth everyone's time to read it.

Jurors can not only decide what they think the law IS, they can change the laws. Fact.

www.fija.org

There's some great information on there about being on a Grand Jury.

There's a lawyer in Colorado that recently defended a woman (and won) because she was thrown in jail when she voted not guilty as a juror.

It's a crazy world we live in indeed.
Amen T&O--it's called "Jury Nullification' and in the court room the JURY--not the judge or the attorneys are the determiners of "law'! Ofcourse--those thieves in the black robes sure don't want you as citizens to know that. They LIKE their total power!!! But knowledge of the real law will soon strip them of their 'bench'!!
 
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Sophia7

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Oh yeah, then state cases are A LOT different. Jurors do not get to know the sentence that will be handed down if they find the defendant guilty. They also don't get to know if the defendant said no to several plea bargains.

Have you ever heard of FIJA? It stands for FULLY INFORMED JURY ASSOCIATION. It's worth everyone's time to read it.

Jurors can not only decide what they think the law IS, they can change the laws. Fact.

www.fija.org

There's some great information on there about being on a Grand Jury.

There's a lawyer in Colorado that recently defended a woman (and won) because she was thrown in jail when she voted not guilty as a juror.

It's a crazy world we live in indeed.

That is crazy. And I definitely agree that all jurors should be fully informed.
 
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Cliff2

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The bible specifically tells us that in order to put someone to death or even bring them to trial--there must be 2 or 3 EYE witnesses. Heresay in God's court is not an option.

Also--in light of all the false accusations and false convictions in this country--I would be very leary of the death penalty. I have heard of too many cases of innocent people going to the death chamber. Sometime go to the "Innocense Project's" web sites and read the horror stories of men and women who almost lost their lives (most lost their freedom for 10-20-30 yrs) before DNA freed them! But what about those who were not lucky enough to have had DNA evidence to clear them? They ROT in prisons or they DIE!!

So Cliff--IF we could be sure BEYOND a SURE DOUBT of a person's guilt--then I cannot at this time support the death penalty. Not with the corruption that prevails in our courts--no way!!

I read a report where it said about 14% on death row have been set free now that DNA is being used to determine if a person is guilty or not.

You would not want to be in that 14%.
 
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Dathen

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Romans 3:23 and 6:23
"All have sinned" "The wages of sin is death"

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Exodus 20:something
"You shall not murder"

Stuck in the Middle.. LOL^_^ . I would say with the first text, that that is up to God to handle. the second one is plain. Humans have no right to judge and kill. So YES, the death penalty is wrong!!​
 
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Sophia7

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Romans 3:23 and 6:23
"All have sinned" "The wages of sin is death"

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Exodus 20:something
"You shall not murder"

Stuck in the Middle.. LOL^_^ . I would say with the first text, that that is up to God to handle. the second one is plain.​
On the other hand, this text says that the government is God's agent of wrath, to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right:
RO 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
God allows governments to determine their own laws and the penalties for breaking them. As long as those laws do not infringe on our religious freedoms, we as Christians are commanded to accept their authority to punish those who do wrong and to obey them.

Also, the Bible is not opposed to the death penalty. God was the one who commanded people in the first place to kill those who committed certain sins, such as murder. If our governments have instituted capital punishment, I do not believe that we have any biblical justification to oppose it, in light of Romans 13. What we should oppose is the inequities and inconsistencies in our justice system to ensure that only those who are truly guilty are punished.
 
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Sophia7

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Death penalty is a deterrent against hard criminals. However today no nation on earth is theocratic, meaning God is not leading the country or the leaders of the country and their decisions. So I do not support death penalty for that reason.

The Bible says that God has established the governing authorities, though, to act as His agent of wrath, to mete out temporal punishment or commendation. When Paul wrote that, he was not under a theocratic government either but a pagan Roman government that practiced capital punishment--brutal methods of punishment and execution at that. Jesus died unjustly at the hands of the Romans, yet He didn't argue against the death penalty or tell Paul to.
 
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annie1speed

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Romans 3:23 and 6:23
"All have sinned" "The wages of sin is death"

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Exodus 20:something
"You shall not murder"

Stuck in the Middle.. LOL^_^ . I would say with the first text, that that is up to God to handle. the second one is plain. Humans have no right to judge and kill. So YES, the death penalty is wrong!!​
What is the definition of murder? Does it include every instance of taking human life? I wouldn't call killing a killer 'murder'.
 
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Dathen

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MY DICTIONARY SAYS:
law the crime of killing another person deliberately and not in self-defence or with any other extenuating circumstance recognized by law.

sophia7 said:
God allows governments to determine their own laws and the penalties for breaking them. As long as those laws do not infringe on our religious freedoms, we as Christians are commanded to accept their authority to punish those who do wrong and to obey them.

Also, the Bible is not opposed to the death penalty. God was the one who commanded people in the first place to kill those who committed certain sins, such as murder. If our governments have instituted capital punishment, I do not believe that we have any biblical justification to oppose it, in light of Romans 13. What we should oppose is the inequities and inconsistencies in our justice system to ensure that only those who are truly guilty are punished.

It is a confusing matter really, that I don't think anyone can give a definite answer to. Though I'm afraid I'll have to disagree there. Looking biblically or non-biblically, I don't think the death penalty is ever deserved. Unless I'm the one to sentence and do it!!!! LOL. Just kidding but, the poeple that killed people in Old T times, alot were told by God, so they killed as they should. But that isn't the message that God's going to give someone today. So I'm against it!!!
 
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