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Death Penalty for Abortion

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by OGM, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. SuperCloud

    SuperCloud Newbie

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    A mother drowning her child requires the mother's consent too. If it's wrong for someone else to kill a mother's child the law ought not privilege a mother (through doctrines of female superiority) with the right to kill her own child because the child ups and says she or he is gay or a Neo-nazi or stays out past curfew hours. Whatever.

    Anyone that supports abortion will justify the legal contradictions no less than those early American's that boasted about America's freedom and inalienable rights justified the blaring contradictions in black enslavement and then later Jim Crow racial segregation laws.
     
  2. Hetta

    Hetta believing the strangest things, loving the alien

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    No we won't.
     
  3. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    A child is unable to consent to that activity, so it doesn't matter. It's still a crime.

    Before a child is born, it has no rights. A mother can consent to an abortion.

    As soon as it is born, the child has rights. A mother killing her child would still be a crime.
     
  4. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    I can't believe we're having this conversation. Pregnancy is not comparable to a stage of development at which you can hand the child to a nurse and never look back. It's about bodily autonomy, not the right to kill another human. As soon as a woman's body is not required to keep the baby alive (which happens right at birth), that option is gone.
     
  5. CurtisNeeley

    CurtisNeeley copy[rite] misspelled in US

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    Very close but wholly wrong. +1 and -1 are close but more different than 2 and three. A woman waives absolute bodily autonomy when she allows another human to deposit living cells. Most babies can survive outside the female body after 24-weeks gestation.

    Most normally developing babies have heartbeats to hear during the 12th week of gestation. This fact wholly removes the option for bodily autonomy.

    AR ACT 301 requires doctors check for a heartbeat before "abortions". Aborting a human heartbeat will cost the doctor the license to practice. It is not called murder and the doctor does not face a jury for homicide but the punishment would prevent continued violation of ACT 301.

    There are exceptions many say are over-broad but ACT 301 will sweep the nation by the end of next year.
     
  6. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    If you're so against abortions, could you please pay for the cost of my monthly birth control, and possibly my permanent sterilization?

    I do not want to get pregnant in the first place, but especially if I don't have access to ending a pregnancy in case something does happen, like rape (I have stalkers who have sexually assaulted me in the past, this is a real worry of mine).
     
  7. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    It doesn't privilege anyone. If it were possible for biological men to get pregnant, abortion would be legal for you, too. But you're trying to compare apples and oranges.

    Also, I already pointed out that women too get charged with fetal homicide when they murder another woman's fetus. There's no disparity. It's about pregnancy, not the sex of the person. It just so happens that only biological women can become pregnant.
    There aren't any. Abortion is consistent with our other laws, including fetal homicide laws.
     
  8. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    No, not in states where a fetus is denied personhood.

    Yes, it does get confusing when a fetus is a person if the mother wants it, but isn't if she doesn't. At least it's confusing for those with any moral sense.

    And I vote no on the original question. And when abortion was illegal, women were not subjected to the death penalty for it.
     
  9. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    ..
     
  10. CurtisNeeley

    CurtisNeeley copy[rite] misspelled in US

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    I am NOT against artificial abortion of gestation before the development of a heartbeat that can be heard.
    I believe that after a heartbeat develops and can be heard, there should be no human intervention or abortion of any heartbeat. I do not support killing for ANY rational including crime or war. Only agree with killing in defense of self, if required.

    I am a conscientious objector to war with 3 1/2 years service in the USMC and a Good Conduct medal and a Top Secret security clearance and numerous awards. I get no veterans benefits and deserve none. I am the ONLY USMC NCO discharged as a conscientious objector to war ever!
     
  11. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    True. And be just as blind to it. See above thread for proof.
     
  12. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    That's not how it works. That's where you're confused. It's the difference between not wanting to be pregnant and not wanting someone else to be pregnant. You have no legal say over the latter.
    Ok, fair enough. Just looked it up, and it looks like fetuses count as homicide victims in 37 states and/or when a federal crime has been committed.
     
  13. D. A. Taylor

    D. A. Taylor Active Member

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    Do the opinions of this man carry any weight?

    "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned" (Luke 6:37).

    Of course, there seems to be the implication of repentance here...
     
  14. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    .
     
  15. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    No, I'm not confused. If a mother wants her baby, it's murder if someone else kills it (in 37 states), but if she doesn't want it she can kill it, and it's not murder. And you say that's fine and not contradictory.
     
  16. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    ...because it's not. My right to decide whether or not I'm pregnant is the antithesis of the hypothetical right to decide whether or not someone else should be pregnant. In fact, it's impossible for both of those rights to exist simultaneously. They would be necessarily contradictory. If it were legal for me to terminate someone else's pregnancy without her consent, that would negate her right to make decisions about her own pregnancy. Just because you have the right to smash a vase you bought doesn't give me that right. That would be ludicrous. This isn't complicated.
     
  17. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    I agree it isn't complicated. But you leave out an important factor. The life of the baby, and whether he has a right to exist. Pretty big omission.
     
  18. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Unitarian Universalist

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    Not really. I haven't been given a reason to incorporate it.

    And you didn't respond to any of the arguments that I made, much less disprove them. Saying "But the baby!" is not a convincing argument.
     
  19. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The people who order the abortion - solicitation of murder. This is whether it's the woman or her boyfriend or husband.
    The people who kill the unborn child - murder. Those who assist with the procedure are accessories.

    I wouldn't change the sentencing from what we have on the books for those crimes already.

    This is for abortions that are not medically necessary to save the woman's life. When you can't save two lives, you save the one life that you can save.
     
  20. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    Of course it is, if it involves murdering the baby.
     
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