Death Penalty for Abortion

Would you support the death penalty for abortion?


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GrimKingGrim

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Of course it does. They just redefined things as it suited their murderous hearts.

Not sure the definition has changed much.

Right, so work on the issue of rape, not killing babies. Babies are still cute even if the dad is a jerk.

Force a rape victim to carry the child to term because it's "cute". Completely undermine the horror of rape by using a softball word like "jerk." Now that's callous if I ever seen it.

Some do not want to drive an old car.

Non... sequitor?

Some do not want to have babies rape or no rape.

And some don't wanna read bad analogies.

Sorry, I see no need to kill the child, even in tough circumstances.

Tough? The (ten year old) woman was raped.

Whatever happened to if life hands you a lemon, make lemonade?

You have a choice to throw that lemon away.

Yet those of the opinion God sends babies are not those who are killing them are they?

God sends (ten year old) rape victims babies does he? Is he birthing a new prodigal son or something?
 
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dad

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No, murder is defined as "the illegal killing of a human being with malice aforethought."
No. It is defined as taking a life by a person or persons. Who cares if Herod or Pharaoh made it legal..or the US or Europe etc.
The term wasn't used in Biblical times as malice aforethought was not required.

Here is a bit from an article I read recently..

"
A number of ancient societies opposed abortion, [2] but the ancient Hebrew society had the clearest reasons for doing so because of its foundations in the scriptures. The Bible teaches that men and women are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). As the climax of God's creation mankind has an intrinsic worth far greater than that of the animal kingdom placed under His care. Throughout the Scriptures, personhood is never measured by age, stage of development, or mental, physical, or social skills. Personhood is endowed by God at the moment of creation - before which there was not a human being and after which there is. That moment of creation can be nothing other than the moment of conception.

The Hebrew word used in the Old Testament to refer to the unborn (Exodus 21:22-25) is yeled, a word that “generally indicates young children, but may refer to teens or even young adults.” [3] The Hebrews did not have or need a separate word for unborn children. They were just like any other children, only younger. In the Bible there are references to born children and unborn children, but there is no such thing as a potential, incipient, or “almost” child.

Job graphically described the way God created him before he was born (Job 10:8-12). The person in the womb was not something that might become Job, but someone who was Job, just a younger version of the same man. To Isaiah, God says, “This is what the Lord says - he who made you, who formed you in the womb” (Isaiah 44:2). What each person is, not merely what he might become, was present in his mother's womb.

Psalm 139:13-16 paints a graphic picture of the intimate involvement of God with a preborn person. God created David's “inmost being,” not at birth, but before birth. David says to his Creator, “You knit me together in my mother's womb.” Each person, regardless of his parentage of handicap, has not been manufactured on a cosmic assembly line, but has been personally knitted together by God in the womb. All the days of his life have been planned out by God before any have come to be (Psalm 139:16).

As a member of the human race that has rejected God, each person sinned “in Adam,” and is therefore a sinner from his very beginning (Romans 5:12-19). David says, “Surely I was sinful at birth.” Then he goes back even further, back before birth to the actual beginning of his life, saying he was “sinful from the time my mother conceived me” (Psalm 51:5). Each person has a sinful nature from the point of conception. Who but an actual person can have a sinful nature? Rocks and trees and animals and human organs do not have moral natures, good or bad. Morality can be ascribed only to a person. That there is a sin nature at the point of conception demonstrates that there is a person present who is capable of having such a nature.

Jacob was given prominence over his twin Esau “though not yet born” (Romans 9:11). When Rebekah was pregnant with Jacob and Esau, Scriptures says, "The babies jostled each other within her" (Genesis 25:22). The unborn are regarded as “babies” in the full sense of the term. God tells Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you" (Jeremiah 1:5). He could not know Jeremiah in his mother's womb unless Jeremiah, the person, was present in his mother's womb. The Creator is involved in an intimate knowing relationship not only with born people, but with unborn people.

In Luke 1:41,44 there are references to the unborn John the Baptist, who was at the end of his second trimester in the womb. The word, translated baby, in these verses is the Greek word brephos. It is the same word used for the already born baby Jesus (Luke 2:12, 16) and for the babies brought to Jesus to receive His blessing (Luke 18:15-17). It is also the same word used in Acts 7:19 for the newborn babies killed by Pharaoh. To the writers of the New Testament, like the Old, whether born or unborn, a baby is simply a baby. It appears that the preborn John the Baptist responded to the presence of the preborn Jesus in His mother Mary when Jesus was probably no more than ten days beyond His conception (Luke 1:41).

The angel Gabriel told Mary that she would be “with child and give birth to a son” (Luke 1:31). In the first century, and in every century, to be pregnant is to be with child, not with that which might become a child. The Scriptures teach the psychosomatic unity of the whole person, body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). Wherever there is a genetically distinct living human being, there is a living soul and spirit.

Woman with children.
The Status of the Unborn

One scholar states: “Looking at Old Testament law from a proper cultural and historical context, it is evident that the life of the unborn is put on the same par as the person outside the womb.” [4]

When understood as a reference to miscarriage, Exodus 21:22-25 is sometimes used as evidence that the unborn is subhuman. But a proper understanding of the passage shows reference is not to a miscarriage, but to a premature birth, and that the “injury” referred to, which is to be compensated for like all other injuries, applies to the child as well as to his mother. This means that, “far from justifying permissive abortion, in fact grants the unborn child a status in the eyes of the law equal to the mother's.” [5]

Meredith Cline observes, "The most significant thing about abortion legislation in Biblical law is that there is none. It was so unthinkable that an Israelite woman should desire an abortion that there was no need to mention this offense in the criminal code." [6] All that was necessary to prohibit an abortion was the command, “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). Every Israelite knew that the preborn child was indeed a child. Therefore, miscarriage was always viewed as the loss of a child and abortion as the killing of a child."

Apparently you lack the ability to answer a simple yes or no question, but I'll take this as meaning that you believe that a rape victim should be forced to carry the spawn of her attacker against her will, that she should not have the option of an abortion.
Well, perhaps there might be some exception, but it is disingenuous to focus on the .00002% and not the rest. The woman have been told they have a right to kill kids and kill them they do.

Isn't it nice that you, a man who cannot become pregnant due to rape, think that it is acceptable to force a woman to be victimized twice. Being pregnant is not in any way shape or form similiar to amking lemonade.
The baby is a victim if parental problems result in it's murder.


And how does this this justifify forcing a rape victim to be twice victimized?
You think not allowing a baby to be murdered is forcing murderers not to be able to murder apparently.
 
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dad

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I'm confused by your use of the word "misuse" here because based on what you say next it sounds like you just wanna kill em all anyway.
I think the context was that some people are falsely convicted. They are the exception.

All life is precious before it's considered life with you I'm guessing. What really is your stance? Also I don't think you read what I posted.
Stance? I do not believe people should kill babies. Re offending violent folks who hurt kids? I say a good government should kill them.
 
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dad

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Force a rape victim to carry the child to term because it's "cute". Completely undermine the horror of rape by using a softball word like "jerk." Now that's callous if I ever seen it.



Non... sequitor?



And some don't wanna read bad analogies.



Tough? The (ten year old) woman was raped.



You have a choice to throw that lemon away.



God sends (ten year old) rape victims babies does he? Is he birthing a new prodigal son or something?
They say Mary was about 14 probably when she had Jesus. Tell you what, would you agree no baby killing for the babies of moms over 14? Why not support them, rather than wasting the money on diabolical possessed doctors and nurses and social workers and a whole system that pushes the murder of babies?

I believe that it is literally demonic to kill babies and those in the thick of it are influenced by bad spirits.

They NEED to repent fast.
 
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GrimKingGrim

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I think the context was that some people are falsely convicted. They are the exception.

So you basically agree with the "liberals" on this one. I don't know why you complained about their stance of saving the falsely convicted if you agree with that stance. What logical sense does that make?

Stance? I do not believe people should kill babies. Re offending violent folks who hurt kids? I say a good government should kill them.

While I don't agree I'm gonna use this as your solid stance here. Also a "good" government shouldn't be killing it's own people based on laws they control. You let that slide too much and things could go South. I agree with jailing these people though, but kill kill kill is too expensive and we don't particularly have the money for that. Unless you want taxes to skyrocket.
 
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GrimKingGrim

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They say Mary was about 14 probably when she had Jesus.

Allegedly /snark

Tell you what, would you agree no baby killing for the babies of moms over 14?

Can't say that I would.

Why not support them, rather than wasting the money on diabolical possessed doctors and nurses and social workers and a whole system that pushes the murder of babies?

You're a conservative advocating that I use my money siphoned from my hard work to support a teenaged mother I don't know?

You sure you're a conservative?

Also that is just riddled with holes that are easy to exploit. Also that goes against your values all over the place. Teenaged unwed mother? Let's hope it wasn't rape or she'd have to marry the guy (Yes, I'm being very petty)

But jokes aside.

Why does this woman (or child) have to carry to term? If she has an option to control this then I think that should be open. However I appreciate the progress we've gained with you at least trying to meet half way. I shows you're actually considering the other side's arguments somewhat. However I don't think that that compromise is reasonable.

I believe that it is literally demonic to kill babies and those in the thick of it are influenced by bad spirits.

They NEED to repent fast.

My god Yggfiri only cares about one thing, swords. But again this is bronze age thinking. It isn't killing babies. In development (early development, not late; that's illegal) doesn't mean developed or living.
 
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As I was saying

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Too bad it wasn't sarcasm. Or even close. I think this observation just got strengthened.

Do you not know about Medieval times at all? The infamous A Modest Proposal should clue you in to the population problem that they tried to curb in multiple ways, including abortion. And Records of all of this were kept, how do you think I know about this?

Here ya go:
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/12/02/birth-control-and-abortion-in-the-middle-ages/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion
http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortion/a/ancientabortion.htm

I'm not grasping at straws here.

What? Where?

In development does not mean fully developed. Late term abortions are rare and in most cases illegal. And I'm almost with ya on that one.

You mentioned a survey and then failed to provide this survey or even a name. And you assert that it exists. And instead of showing me or pointing me in the right direction you kinda tell me to trust you and that "it's out there." Why do I have to put forth the effort to find YOUR source? How does that work?

I'll be sure to care of my tone. I have autistic family members.

One. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. You just don't recognise it as such.

Two. Not one single record in all the references, just the history. As for using Wikipedia...you are joking of course. So...............you are grasping at straws, big time.

Three. What? Where? There?

Four. Never mentioned late term abortions. Get real man and stop throwing up red herrings.

Five. I do my own homework so you can do yours.

Six. nearly every time I say I am autistic, the other person says they have family members who are autistic. Strange.
 
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As I was saying

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Now you be a good boy and pay attention to the post. I don't need to interview anyone because I simply pointing out your incorrect use of the term pro-abort.

And I pointed out your incorrect methodology for deciding what is usual. That must mean we are one all.
 
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As I was saying

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You still have not answered the question. Just because some rape victims might be willing to carry the child of their attacker to term, that does not mean that all are willing to do so. Again should a rape victim be permitted to get a legal abortion? Yes or no.

No, I have not answered the question. I have addressed the issue and addressing the issue is more important than answering a question that does not address the issue.
 
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As I was saying

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The baby about to be murdered is the victim. Besides, I don't like when people focus on the tiny minority of exceptions and don't seem to give a damn about the tens of millions of children slaughter every year in the womb.

If I ask a liberal whether the death penalty is good, they will usually say no. There could be one in a thousand or ten thousand of those convicted and sentenced to die that were innocent. They claim they can't kill even one exception to the rule, one innocent person, and they get all self righteous about it. Then they turn around and say that it is fine to have tens of MILLIONS of innocent babies slaughter, butchered, burned stabbed, etc, using the exception as the excuse. Hypocrites. Vipers. Murderers.

1000% true brother. It is common knowledge that the majority of people who support the murder of babies in the womb are against the killing of adults who killed other adults. That to me is the most extreme example of hypocrisy you could ever find.
 
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As I was saying

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But that isn't what I'm discussing. I am asking whether victims of rape should be allowed to have an abortion. Yes or no.

Do you believe that millions of babies should be murdered because 1% of them were the product of rape. Yes or No?
 
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As I was saying

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Of course it does. They just redefined things as it suited their murderous hearts.

Right, so work on the issue of rape, not killing babies. Babies are still cute even if the dad is a jerk.

Nice to read your posts Bro. You expose the truth and the pro-aborts hate it. All murderous intentions start with the redefining of words. I have a lexicon of pro-aborts claims and in every case they have redefined words to enable them to hide the fact that they are lying through their teeth.

When ideology and hate motivate your thinking, it is almost impossible for a person to consider anything other than their raison d'etre. They are like horses with blinkers on. They can't see further than their nose.

Just as well the parents of those who want babies aborted didn't have the same view of them when they were born. If they had, just think of all the ranting and raving they couldn't do and all the hate they couldn't propogate.
 
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dad

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So you basically agree with the "liberals" on this one. I don't know why you complained about their stance of saving the falsely convicted if you agree with that stance. What logical sense does that make?



While I don't agree I'm gonna use this as your solid stance here. Also a "good" government shouldn't be killing it's own people based on laws they control. You let that slide too much and things could go South. I agree with jailing these people though, but kill kill kill is too expensive and we don't particularly have the money for that. Unless you want taxes to skyrocket.
What is logical is if liberals say that killing babies is ok in 99% of the cases where no exception is involved, that they not cry foul when the 99% of guilty villains get the death penalty despite the 1% wrongly convicted. Double standard. Your opi ion is not in sync with the bible on the death penalty.
 
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dad

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Nice to read your posts Bro. You expose the truth and the pro-aborts hate it. All murderous intentions start with the redefining of words. I have a lexicon of pro-aborts claims and in every case they have redefined words to enable them to hide the fact that they are lying through their teeth.

When ideology and hate motivate your thinking, it is almost impossible for a person to consider anything other than their raison d'etre. They are like horses with blinkers on. They can't see further than their nose.

Just as well the parents of those who want babies aborted didn't have the same view of them when they were born. If they had, just think of all the ranting and raving they couldn't do and all the hate they couldn't propogate.
Babies should get to vote on life, not just the murderous moms. Since they can't it is up to society to protect them. Society is so rotted to the core, that they protect the bad guys and guilty, and kill the innocent.
 
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dad

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Allegedly /snark



Can't say that I would.



You're a conservative advocating that I use my money siphoned from my hard work to support a teenaged mother I don't know?

You sure you're a conservative?

Also that is just riddled with holes that are easy to exploit. Also that goes against your values all over the place. Teenaged unwed mother? Let's hope it wasn't rape or she'd have to marry the guy (Yes, I'm being very petty)

But jokes aside.

Why does this woman (or child) have to carry to term? If she has an option to control this then I think that should be open. However I appreciate the progress we've gained with you at least trying to meet half way. I shows you're actually considering the other side's arguments somewhat. However I don't think that that compromise is reasonable.



My god Yggfiri only cares about one thing, swords. But again this is bronze age thinking. It isn't killing babies. In development (early development, not late; that's illegal) doesn't mean developed or living.
Better to use your money to suppot moms than kill babies and support evil ghouls!There is only one question that matters for you. Do you support a woman's so called right to kill the baby for whatever reason...yes or no? Be honest.By the way I am not coservative. I am not a warmonger.
 
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GrimKingGrim

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What is logical is if liberals say that killing babies is ok in 99% of the cases where no exception is involved, that they not cry foul when the 99% of guilty villains get the death penalty despite the 1% wrongly convicted. Double standard. Your opi ion is not in sync with the bible on the death penalty.

Neither you nor I know where this discussion is going anymore do we?

Better to use your money to support moms than kill babies and support evil ghouls!

You're going off the rails. I'm not sure if you're being serious. But I know not everyone is fit to be a mom and it sure is a hard decision whether to be or not to be.

There is only one question that matters for you. Do you support a woman's so called right to kill the baby for whatever reason...yes or no? Be honest.

Whoa nice question. Let me edit this. Underdeveloped fetus =/= baby. Terminated pregnancy =/= Murder.
So with that. I support a woman's right to do what she pleases with her own body and life. I am a man. I have virtually no say in woman's health other than to support.

By the way I am not conservative. I am not a warmonger.
'

Oh you coulda fooled me.
 
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dad

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Neither you nor I know where this discussion is going anymore do we?
Of course I do. It is going toward flushing you out of the grass and stating your opinion on whether you think a woman can destroy a baby at a whim or not.


You're going off the rails. I'm not sure if you're being serious. But I know not everyone is fit to be a mom and it sure is a hard decision whether to be or not to be.
I will let God decide who to send babies to, thanks. Not those who want to whack em!

So with that. I support a woman's right to do what she pleases with her own body and life.

Thank you. So you ascent to mass murder with all your heart. Thanks for clearing that up.

I am a man. I have virtually no say in woman's health other than to support.
Murder is not a sex issue.
You can go now.
 
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bhsmte

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No, I have not answered the question. I have addressed the issue and addressing the issue is more important than answering a question that does not address the issue.

You don't see women who become pregnant after a rape to be a real issue?
 
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GrimKingGrim

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Of course I do. It is going toward flushing you out of the grass and stating your opinion on whether you think a woman can destroy a baby at a whim or not.

So yea you don't know.

I will let God decide who to send babies to, thanks. Not those who want to whack em!

No problem, Huckabee. (Because that isn't morally bankrupt)

Thank you. So you ascent to mass murder with all your heart. Thanks for clearing that up.

Not sure how you extrapolated that from my support of a woman's right to do what she wills with her body.

Murder is not a sex issue.
You can go now.

You're hopelessly confused aren't you??
 
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dad

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No problem, Huckabee. (Because that isn't morally bankrupt)
Does that mean you agree it is good to leave it up to God when to send a baby to a mom? I doubt it since you just were a cheer leader for unrestricted wanton mass murder of babies.


Not sure how you extrapolated that from my support of a woman's right to do what she wills with her body.
A baby is NOT a woman's body. A woman is not a babies body! They each have bodies.
 
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