Deamiter, oh buddy, oh pal...

[Garnet2727]

My favorItist mod on this forum (yes, I'm brown-nosing but it still be the truth) Come delete this thread if it done does violate rules.

Because I'm about to talk about somthing that REALLY TICKS ME OFF!

A little background, and yes, it will get around to C/E. I came to Christian forums because a particular person with whom I correspond thought that coming here would help me regain my tolerance of Christians. I went through a phase of absolute intolerance of a certain breed of Christian after I moved to Montgomery, AL. And that intolerance was bordering on hatred. Particularly after some experiences I'd had here like being "witnessed to" while I was in the bathroom at work...er...er...well..making a lot of noise and stink. Or after having the Darwin fish ripped off my car..my windows broken..my tires slashed..and a vile note left in the driver's seat. And other stuff.

So here I came. To GA mostly. And my tolerance improved for most Christians.

And then here I came to C/E.

GAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHH.

Repeat. GAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH.

I can understand a LOT of viewpoints. But I've reached the absolute limit of intolerance with anyone who attacks a strawman version of ToE.

Now, grant you, when I came here I didn't know diddly squat about ToE. But the information is readily available EVEN FOR A LAYMAN!!!!!

No, I'm not scientist. But blast it, the basics are there!

So, here I am totally, completely intolerant of ONE MORE IS YOUR UNCLE A MONKEY argument.

Blast and fire, I even have a basic understanding of PE.

WHAT IS SO BLASTED HARD?????

*breathes through nose, deep inhale, deep exhale*

The point of this rambling is that I can't abide anyone, anymore, who throws up...regurgitates...those blasted strawmen about ToE!

As soon as a person does that, I've lost all respect AND tolerance.

My tolerance is gone for this nonsense. I know I haven't been posting much here lately. To tell you the truth, I'm thinking about not even reading this forum anymore before I burst several blood vessels in my brain.

Thoughts?

 

[Natro]

I like muffins.

 

[Big Rob]

Yeah, Christians bug me too.

 

[Garnet2727]

I like muffins.

Dang it Natro! Is my post so bad that it deserves mockery?

 

[Garnet2727]

Yeah, Christians bug me too.

This is more than Christians bug me. This, at least to me, is about a group of Christians I can't stand anymore.

 

[Aggie]

I’ve felt this way about fundie Christians ever since 11th grade. You aren’t likely to find any examples to convince you otherwise at this forum, but I still like posting here just as a way to let off steam by making fun of their especially stupid arguments.

That’s how I deal with being frustrated about this sort of thing. I even have a poem I wrote about this a couple years ago, making fun of how creationists ignore evidence that contradicts their viewpoints.

 

[Garnet2727]

I’ve felt this way about fundie Christians ever since 11th grade. You aren’t likely to find any examples to convince you otherwise at this forum, but I still like posting here just as a way to let off steam by making fun of their especially stupid arguments.

That’s how I deal with being frustrated about this sort of thing. I even have a poem I wrote about this a couple years ago, making fun of how creationists ignore evidence that contradicts their viewpoints.

Would you mind sharing the poem? If you don't feel comfortable sharing it on the whole forum (and being picked apart) would you send it to me in PM?

 

[numberprophet]

The point of this rambling is that I can't abide anyone, anymore, who throws up...regurgitates...those blasted strawmen about ToE!

I never really post here, just 'cause of this reason. The problem is, when someone feels that their belief system is under attack, any argument looks good.

 

[Garnet2727]

I never really post here, just 'cause of this reason. The problem is, when someone feels that their belief system is under attack, any argument looks good.

BINGO! That's what I struggle with. There are some good gracious folk on CF. But in here sometimes? I just want to bang my head.

 

[Aggie]

Would you mind sharing the poem? If you don't feel comfortable sharing it on the whole forum (and being picked apart) would you send it to me in PM?

No problem. I posted this here once before and it was pretty popular, so here it is again. This deals with the origin of birds, since that’s the aspect of evolution that interests me the most, and it’s also the main thing I argued about with the creationists at the high school I went to for 11th grade.

I’ve actually edited this poem slightly since the first time I posted it, so people who remember the original version might notice a few changes.

-Ned the Creationist-

Ned was a creationist who lived across the way,
And searched me out to argue with me almost every day.
He thought it was through miracles that each new kind appears,
And that the world had been around for just eight thousand years!

I sometimes showed him fossils, but he always took the line
They must be either fake, or an intelligent design.
He had a strong conviction that I never could dispel;
That accepting evolution was the way to go to hell!

I found a Sinornithosaurus in my yard one day.
It seemed a perfect chance to show him what I had to say.
And possibly a creature could convince him more than words,
And help him see that dinosaurs were ancestors of birds.

I gave my feathered dinosaur to Ned. A week went by,
He never mentioned it at all, which made me wonder why.
I asked how it was doing, and his subtle look of doubt
Convinced me I should visit him in effort to find out.

I knocked three times upon the door, and Ned allowed me in.
I saw my dinosaur behind him, covered with bare skin!
He’d pulled out all the raptor’s feathers, Ned explained to me,
To make it look the way he thought it was supposed to be.

I wrapped it in a blanket since it looked like it was cold,
Dismayed that this was not enough to show the world was old.
I couldn’t change his viewpoint a feathered dinosaur,
Since now my feathered raptor wasn’t feathered anymore.

“What better creature could I find?” I forced myself to ask,
And hit on Archaeopteryx as perfect for the task.
A bit of simple time travel provided what I sought,
And this time plucking wouldn’t hide it was a bird I’d caught.

I lent my friend the protobird, and once I was prepared,
I visited his house once more to learn how it had fared.
I knocked upon the door and was admitted once again,
and saw it in a cage beneath a table in his den.

I scarcely could believe it when I saw the bird beneath;
He’d cut off all its finger claws, and pulled out all its teeth!
“A bird is not supposed to have clawed hands or teeth”, he said,
“So now I’ve fixed it up to look the proper way instead.”

Now twice I’d tried and twice I’d failed. Perhaps I should have quit,
But I could not give up. I was obsessed, I must admit.
I still was slightly hopeful that I might convince him yet,
And lent to Ned my family’s giant Utahraptor pet.

Some days went by, and Ned and I continued our debate,
My dinosaur was not brought up, much less its birdlike state.
It seemed Ned’s mind could not be changed, I thought to my dismay,
Until I found that Ned did not show up at all one day.

Another several days went by, with no debates arranged.
I thought at last I’d visit Ned, in case his mind had changed.
I tried to be polite, but no one answered when I knocked.
So finally I tried the door, and found it was unlocked.

My Utahraptor greeted me as I pushed wide the door;
I slowly entered into Ned’s front hallway as before.
Had Ned retreated to his home? I called and looked around.
But though I searched the building, he was nowhere to be found.

My raptor still was mostly feathered, cheering me a bit,
Since Ned had stopped his work, it seemed, midway through plucking it.
A sudden flash of insight, then, at last had changed his mind.
So why in all his house was Ned impossible to find?

I realized what had happened when I spied a pair of clues.
A heap of feathers, and beside them lay Ned’s empty shoes.
Now finally I understood what had become of Ned,
And why my days-left raptor wasn’t begging to be fed.

If people who believe in evolution go to hell,
Then maybe Ned’s in heaven now. There’s no sure way to tell.
It seems creationists end up another bad place, though--
The stomach of a raptor’s not a pleasant place to go.

Poem © 2003-2005 by Jonathan “Aggie” Kane

If you like this poem, you might also enjoy Dinosaurs are Still Here, which is basically a blow-for-blow account of my experience at the high school that inspired this poem. If you notice some similarities between it and this poem, that’s why.

 

[platzapS]

Or after having the Darwin fish ripped off my car..my windows broken..my tires slashed..and a vile note left in the driver's seat. And other stuff.

How Christlike of them.

 

[Garnet2727]

Aggie, I've got to tell you, that brought tears to my eyes. OK, I'm overly emotional, but your poem expresses how I feel. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Garnet2727]

How Christlike of them.

platzapS...it is what it is. and it sucks. But don't get me wrong. This is not the majority, even in the Bible Belt. It's the loud, obnoxious minority. And I don't know about you, but these folks seem to have an "in" with the current US government. And that scares me more than buying new tires.

 

[KAG]

Thoughts?

I agree with you, the least you can do before attacking a concept or scientific theory, is to know at least the basics. There's nothing more irritating, than for someone to say "You believe in evolution?" "Well if you're so smart, tell me , if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" I really, really hate that.

There are other annoying ones, like: "You know, all/most experts agreeLucy was a chimpazee", or: "Evolution is just a theory, it doesn't happen, that's why it's called the theory of evolution" <cue, smug look on creationist's face, after the above statements> .

On the plus side, many of the posters that used to ask incredibly insane/stupid questions, like: "If we are related to chimps, why don't they sahve", don't post here anymore.

 

[Grengor]

There was even "If Jesus doesn't exist why is our timeline based on "The year of our Lord".

 

[Grengor]

I can't wait to encounter that kind of intolerance that I've heard so much about lately. The only subject on Evolution I've ever heard of outside the Internet was a kid that asked me "Do you believe we came from monkeys?"

 

[Bushido216]

Yeah, those darn Christians... just ruining everything...

 

[Freodin]

I have to admit that my tolerance for creationists of the "it´s only a theory" and "why are there still apes" variant has increased a lot in the last months. Most of them are just ignorant, and the worst that you can say about them is that they are unwilling to change that.

But then there are some few "Christians" (I still can´t decide if they are not examples of Poe´s Law at work), who do nothing but sprout, err, bovine excrement, and do so consistently. They are, err, the things that live under bridges, you know, starts with a T... nothing more, and they do seem proud of that.

These are the few I can´t stand anymore, and I won´t waste my time with them anymore. Thank the powers that be for the ignore list!

 

[DrummerWench]

Yeah, those darn Christians... just ruining everything...

This is not, of course, about Christians in general, or even most Christians. As I read the OP, this is about a small, vocal subset of Christians: aggressively ignorant creationists.

Please don't read into Garnet2727's post what isn't there. She has made it quite clear that the subset, not "Christians", is what frustrates her.

Unless you are suggesting that only "creationists" can be considered "Christians", it seems to me you are taking her words out of context.

DrummerWench

*googles "logical fallacies"*
*can't figure out which one this is, something to do with generalizations, maybe?*

 

[Hydra009]

BINGO! That's what I struggle with. There are some good gracious folk on CF. But in here sometimes? I just want to bang my head.

Yeah, I think just about everyone here can relate. But bear in mind that not everyone has had the good fortune of being as educated in biology as we'd like. So just take it with a grain of salt.

Also take into account that, often times, creationist attitudes are not wholly of their own doing, but are indoctrinated via one's family or church before they ever get a chance to learn the subject matter.

So really, you've just got to be extra patient because some people eventually figure it out.