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Dealing with spouses additions and depression

pat4545

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I will start with some of the bigger basics. My wife's Dad died right after we got married within months. She became really depressed, basically stays in bed all day, and started a porn addiction. She doesn't want me to touch pretty at all, she just wants me to leave her alone. She hardly helps out around the house or visits her own family. She does come out every once in a while, she does have a full time job which helps get her out. She does nothing around the house basically. I do almost all the cleaning cooking laundry etc. Married 7 years its been really rough my wife tells me all the time she just doesn't want me to get off. she has done counseling multiple times but she never really stays focused or is quite honest with the therapist. she is on her 4th therapist. There has been a few times were she did quit over the years but within weeks went right back the same lies and habits.

I really do love her very much and I myself feel so absolutely horrible and feel like I have failed because no matter how many conversations we have had we just can't seem to find common ground. I am trying extremely hard to be a good husband, I take care of my exercise 5 days week, I make a decent living so money really isn't an issue, but still I feel so horrible and just beat down. I don't want to leave or divorce but at the same time I am just so beat down and feel so worthless. I was thinking about going to a groups for spouses where the spouse is addicted porn if there is such a thing.



What have other spouses done in this matter? Or what has worked? Or any other advice?
 

Michie

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I will start with some of the bigger basics. My wife's Dad died right after we got married within months. She became really depressed, basically stays in bed all day, and started a porn addiction. She doesn't want me to touch pretty at all, she just wants me to leave her alone. She hardly helps out around the house or visits her own family. She does come out every once in a while, she does have a full time job which helps get her out. She does nothing around the house basically. I do almost all the cleaning cooking laundry etc. Married 7 years its been really rough my wife tells me all the time she just doesn't want me to get off. she has done counseling multiple times but she never really stays focused or is quite honest with the therapist. she is on her 4th therapist. There has been a few times were she did quit over the years but within weeks went right back the same lies and habits.

I really do love her very much and I myself feel so absolutely horrible and feel like I have failed because no matter how many conversations we have had we just can't seem to find common ground. I am trying extremely hard to be a good husband, I take care of my exercise 5 days week, I make a decent living so money really isn't an issue, but still I feel so horrible and just beat down. I don't want to leave or divorce but at the same time I am just so beat down and feel so worthless. I was thinking about going to a groups for spouses where the spouse is addicted porn if there is such a thing.



What have other spouses done in this matter? Or what has worked? Or any other advice?
I think your best bet is her going to see her general practitioner first and a psychiatrist next which is also a medical doctor, not just a therapist. And do go with her. Let those two advise and refer you both from there. It definitely seems you both need marital counseling. I do not know if you belong to a church but maybe finding a support group there. There are many Churches that have support groups for those addicted to porn. Grief groups, etc. I think your best bet is to start there and see where it leads. Prayers for you and your wife. :praying:
 
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pat4545

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I think your best bet is her going to see her general practitioner first and a psychiatrist next which is also a medical doctor, not just a therapist. And do go with her. Let those two advise and refer you both from there. It definitely seems you both need marital counseling. I do not know if you belong to a church but maybe finding a support group there. There are many Churches that have support groups for those addicted to porn. Grief groups, etc. I think your best bet is to start there and see where it leads. Prayers for you and your wife.






thank you. And thank for the prayers

We have tried marriage counseling basically my wife just says stuff like the the counselor is always my side. (I run a tight ship I am firm believer work hard, do what you physically can etc)

And as for my local church they have nothing same with other churches around here. (very few women have a porn addiction I assume, and plus I was looking something more for me the spouse the husband that doesn't have addiction.)
 
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Michie

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thank you. And thank for the prayers

We have tried marriage counseling basically my wife just says stuff like the the counselor is always my side. (I run a tight ship I am firm believer work hard, do what you physically can etc)

And as for my local church they have nothing same with other churches around here. (very few women have a porn addiction I assume, and plus I was looking something more for me the spouse the husband that doesn't have addiction.)
Well first I think you need to take her to her GP. She may need medication The doctor can refer you from there. But imo, you need to tell your wife’s her cooperation is necessary. Time to move past this or I do not see how you both can continue. :praying:
 
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pat4545

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Well first I think you need to take her to her GP. She may need medication The doctor can refer you from there. But imo, you need to tell your wife’s her cooperation is necessary. Time to move past this or I do not see how you both can continue. :praying:
thank you. I do appreciate the effort too. Yea actually shes tried medication a few times too. Basically we have hardly talked at all for the past few months and hardly seen each other most of the time it just starts fights. It just completely blows because I do love her and I just feel so terribly awful no matter what I try she just isn't happy. She told me shes trying another therapist but we will see. (I like to think theirs always another way or theirs some way to get through to her.)

I was looking for something or someone whos in the same boat as me near the area where there husband/s our wive/s are addicted porn and have been difficult, some real human interaction, someone/s who believe the somewhat the same I do but still wants to try keeping there family intact, but more importantly someone/s who truly understands what its like to live through this. I hate how society has become adopted the throw it away system, of lets throw it away or spouses disagree on one thing lets get a divorce and be stubborn instead of trying to compromise. Whatever happened to helping others when they have slipped off the path or fixing the issue at hand.
 
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Michie

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thank you. I do appreciate the effort too. Yea actually shes tried medication a few times too. Basically we have hardly talked at all for the past few months and hardly seen each other most of the time it just starts fights. It just completely blows because I do love her and I just feel so terribly awful no matter what I try she just isn't happy. She told me shes trying another therapist but we will see. (I like to think theirs always another way or theirs some way to get through to her.)

I was looking for something or someone whos in the same boat as me near the area where there husband/s our wive/s are addicted porn and have been difficult, some real human interaction, someone/s who believe the somewhat the same I do but still wants to try keeping there family intact, but more importantly someone/s who truly understands what its like to live through this. I hate how society has become adopted the throw it away system, of lets throw it away or spouses disagree on one thing lets get a divorce and be stubborn instead of trying to compromise. Whatever happened to helping others when they have slipped off the path or fixing the issue at hand.
It sounds like you are looking for something comparable to Al-Anon. That may be an idea…calling the crisis hotline and looking for groups with loved ones in the midst of addiction.I know there are sex addiction groups, etc.

I admire your dedication to your marriage. Prayers for you both and you quickly find the help you need.
 
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pat4545

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It sounds like you are looking for something comparable to Al-Anon. That may be an idea…calling the crisis hotline and looking for groups with loved ones in the midst of addiction.I know there are sex addiction groups, etc.

I admire your dedication to your marriage. Prayers for you both and you quickly find the help you need.

thanks I am the stage of not knowing what to do and the next stage is moving on with life I am pretty sure.
 
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Michie

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thanks I am the stage of not knowing what to do and the next stage is moving on with life I am pretty sure.
Check around with those support groups. See if there is anything out there for you that can help you walk through it.
 
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pat4545

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It sounds like you are looking for something comparable to Al-Anon. That may be an idea…calling the crisis hotline and looking for groups with loved ones in the midst of addiction.I know there are sex addiction groups, etc.

I admire your dedication to your marriage. Prayers for you both and you quickly find the help you need.

thank you, yes its been very difficult. There so many days I can not focus just from being so unloved/horny/lonely, its really affected my work and other life balance and the temptations from other women that the devil has waved in front of my face. I just am at a complete loss and have tried so many times to sit her down and talk to her. Even with how difficult its been I still hate to lose what we once had and so many days I pray and wake up the next morning just to hope something will change but at the same time I don't want this to take another 20 years and more importantly I want to stop wasting life away with the drama. I'm in limbo and do not know what to do at this point.
 
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Michie

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thank you, yes its been very difficult. There so many days I can not focus just from being so unloved/horny/lonely, its really affected my work and other life balance and the temptations from other women that the devil has waved in front of my face. I just am at a complete loss and have tried so many times to sit her down and talk to her. Even with how difficult its been I still hate to lose what we once had and so many days I pray and wake up the next morning just to hope something will change but at the same time I don't want this to take another 20 years and more importantly I want to stop wasting life away with the drama. I'm in limbo and do not know what to do at this point.
Well check around for the support groups and go from there. It’s important to find out where she stands as well. If you keep putting up with it she may continue in her pattern and see no reason to change. It may be time to shake things up a bit.
 
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MarkSB

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First of all, I cannot imagine being in your position. And kudos to you for hanging in there. I think it shows how much you really love her.

Going to see a psychiatrist or starting with a GP is good advice. They can prescribe medication (or refer you to someone who can), and medication might be needed. In one or your follow-up posts you said that she has tried medication, so that is good. But many times it seems like it takes several attempts to get the medication side of it right.

Another thing to keep in mind - one of my friends, who has had mental health issues, has said that his psychiatrist is not the best therapist, but at the same time he was the only one who had the perception and knowledge to prescribe the best medication. And this psychiatrist has been (for the most part) a good advisor on how to handle the prescription through the different stages of recovery and different life stages. So all that is to say (from my "outsider's" perspective), that you may not find the best therapist and the best psychiatrist all in one package. My friend continues (or continued) to go to the psychiatrist - because meeting with him is necessary to continue the prescription - but he also goes to a separate therapist to talk about and touch base on various life issues.

From my experiences of being through family counseling when I was a child - I definitely think it can take some time to find the "right" therapist. But I understand that, at the same time, that needs to be balanced against several things: (1) You're never going to find a perfect therapist, (2) In most cases, you probably aren't going to be able to tell if you have the "right" therapist until you are at least several sessions in (I'm guessing therapy can take time, and in most cases you're not going to see results for some time... so you have to give it a chance) and (3) A lot of it depends on the willingness of the person seeking therapy.

Another item to throw in: I am by no means an expert in this area, but I don't think the DSM-V classifies excessive porn usage as an "addiction", and it falls more under the category of a compulsive behavior. So it's still a symptom of a deeper problem, but the manner in which it is best addressed is likely different than how you would address an addiction. So that's a distinction that you may want to do some research on, and get some different perspectives on.
 
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pat4545

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I recommend seeking out a church that has Celebrate Recovery. They have a sub-section for sex addiction, both for men and women. It is highly confidential and could be a more comfortable place to deal with her addiction.
thank you
 
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pat4545

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First of all, I cannot imagine being in your position. And kudos to you for hanging in there. I think it shows how much you really love her.

Going to see a psychiatrist or starting with a GP is good advice. They can prescribe medication (or refer you to someone who can), and medication might be needed. In one or your follow-up posts you said that she has tried medication, so that is good. But many times it seems like it takes several attempts to get the medication side of it right.

Another thing to keep in mind - one of my friends, who has had mental health issues, has said that his psychiatrist is not the best therapist, but at the same time he was the only one who had the perception and knowledge to prescribe the best medication. And this psychiatrist has been (for the most part) a good advisor on how to handle the prescription through the different stages of recovery and different life stages. So all that is to say (from my "outsider's" perspective), that you may not find the best therapist and the best psychiatrist all in one package. My friend continues (or continued) to go to the psychiatrist - because meeting with him is necessary to continue the prescription - but he also goes to a separate therapist to talk about and touch base on various life issues.

From my experiences of being through family counseling when I was a child - I definitely think it can take some time to find the "right" therapist. But I understand that, at the same time, that needs to be balanced against several things: (1) You're never going to find a perfect therapist, (2) In most cases, you probably aren't going to be able to tell if you have the "right" therapist until you are at least several sessions in (I'm guessing therapy can take time, and in most cases you're not going to see results for some time... so you have to give it a chance) and (3) A lot of it depends on the willingness of the person seeking therapy.

Another item to throw in: I am by no means an expert in this area, but I don't think the DSM-V classifies excessive porn usage as an "addiction", and it falls more under the category of a compulsive behavior. So it's still a symptom of a deeper problem, but the manner in which it is best addressed is likely different than how you would address an addiction. So that's a distinction that you may want to do some research on, and get some different perspectives on.
thank you very true on find the right helper, if she doesn't listen to me, its going to be very hard for her to listen to others too. Many others have said its hard find the right people even for there children. But once you find the right people for those people rest falls into place. She did start with a new therapist and so far shes been listening more and also strongly backing me too.

I have had a very hard life most people don't believe it when they hear about but the point is I know how to deal with a lot not only major depression but also addictions too. The therapist told her listen to your husband.
 
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Josheb

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I will start with some of the bigger basics. My wife's Dad died right after we got married within months. She became really depressed, basically stays in bed all day, and started a porn addiction. She doesn't want me to touch pretty at all, she just wants me to leave her alone. She hardly helps out around the house or visits her own family. She does come out every once in a while, she does have a full time job which helps get her out. She does nothing around the house basically. I do almost all the cleaning cooking laundry etc. Married 7 years its been really rough my wife tells me all the time she just doesn't want me to get off. she has done counseling multiple times but she never really stays focused or is quite honest with the therapist. she is on her 4th therapist. There has been a few times were she did quit over the years but within weeks went right back the same lies and habits.
Does she recognize and acknowledge any of it as a problem?
I really do love her very much....
Why?

How do you love her?
...and I myself feel so absolutely horrible and feel like I have failed because no matter how many conversations we have had we just can't seem to find common ground.
What is the "common ground" you'd like her to share with you?
I am trying extremely hard to be a good husband, I take care of my exercise 5 days week, I make a decent living so money really isn't an issue....
How does being physically exercised and financially stable or secure make you a good husband?
.....but still I feel so horrible and just beat down.
What is it you think would make you feel delight and relieved or victorius?
I don't want to leave or divorce but at the same time I am just so beat down and feel so worthless.
Explain the correlation between feeling beat down and worthless and divorce.

Have you considered the possibility both of you might be depressed?
I was thinking about going to a groups for spouses where the spouse is addicted porn if there is such a thing.
There is such a thing. The Samson Society is an excellent group for men who use pornography and Celebrate Recovery is a step program for both men and women that can provide recovery for a variety of dependency issues.

But I recommend you and your wife start attending a Grief Share program, if not together then individually.
What have other spouses done in this matter? Or what has worked? Or any other advice?
There are no fixed answers here.

Based on the little information provided, I'd look first at the prospect your wife is experiencing a bereavement or prolonged grief disorder (which is what persistent grief is called when it endures past a year). It is a form of trauma, of which depression may be just one symptom. Treating symptoms never cure the underlying problem. If she were seeing me, I'd want to know about her relationship with her father, how well does she understand what was "lost" once her father passed, and whether or not there was any abuse/trauma prior to his passing (which will never be handled directly with him). If there is a history present, then it is likely she will go through several more counselors until she finds one adept enough and safe enough with whom to discuss the trauma.

Don't ignore my early inquiries. I asked them for a reason.
 
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pat4545

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Does she recognize and acknowledge any of it as a problem? Yes

Why? Because she has admitted it multiple times.

How do you love her? Physically, emotionally, mentally

What is the "common ground" you'd like her to share with you? Can you expand on this?

How does being physically exercised and financially stable or secure make you a good husband? Please expand on this. I feel like your after something more to question. Being in shape just makes life easier all around, financially stable just makes life easier all around, there is a lot less to worry about when you have these two items.

What is it you think would make you feel delight and relieved or victorius? To have the relationship and bond that we had when we first were married.

Explain the correlation between feeling beat down and worthless and divorce. Not having the same connection that we once had, its just draining at times.

Have you considered the possibility both of you might be depressed? A lot of people who know me or known me for the past 20 years, know me as the most upbeat positive I have never seen as angry or depressed. I know how to deal with depression and did have a incredibly difficult life in my younger years up through my teens. Most people who really know that have learned about my life don't really believe till they have found out more or proof or really really got to know me. I could write the book on how the deal with depression, and help a lot of therapists. However who in there right mind wouldn't it bother if there spouse had issues so yes when she is like this it brings me down when she is very difficult or having very bad days.

There is such a thing. The Samson Society is an excellent group for men who use pornography and Celebrate Recovery is a step program for both men and women that can provide recovery for a variety of dependency issues. Thank you I will look into this to see if this can help her.

But I recommend you and your wife start attending a Grief Share program, if not together then individually. No I am fine, however I do appreicate the suggestion. I believe in today's society its has gotten so cheap such a throw away cultural whatever happened to real friends or real spouses that would fully be there for them when they needed it the most. A lot of people would have given up and so many have. I believe there is always a solution to some extent but its about finding that soltuion and really working together. I know when I was younger and had a very diffuicult like the people who helped me the most are the ones who didn't give up on me. And yes I am ahead of most people on this when they simply say "do you really want to waste another 10 years of your life?" or whatever it may be. I'm not saying I'm right on another 10 years and I am not saying I am wrong. I am however hunting for a real solution. Where I have been very successful is life and with relationships is to try to turn over every rock and exhaust every resource and I have even written the book in some cases. So at this point I am not ready to give up, but I can gurantee you for me sitting around with a bunch of depressed people isn't going to help me because where I personally mentally am at this point. As for her when she did try stuff like this only made things worse for her because she would sit or focus on the same depressing stuff all the time or same towards the next meetings which only made her more depressed.

There are no fixed answers here.

Based on the little information provided, I'd look first at the prospect your wife is experiencing a bereavement or prolonged grief disorder (which is what persistent grief is called when it endures past a year). It is a form of trauma, of which depression may be just one symptom. Treating symptoms never cure the underlying problem. If she were seeing me, I'd want to know about her relationship with her father, how well does she understand what was "lost" once her father passed, and whether or not there was any abuse/trauma prior to his passing (which will never be handled directly with him). If there is a history present, then it is likely she will go through several more counselors until she finds one adept enough and safe enough with whom to discuss the trauma. She was very close and they have all known about this. Holidays are the worst for her.

Don't ignore my early inquiries. I asked them for a reason. I didn't and I know this isn't going to be easy. This is going to be challenge. Thank you for support and suggestions though.
 
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Josheb

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@pat4545, your html tags are all awry. I'll try to reply as best I can and if I miss something you've posted then just post it again.

The reason her acknowledgement is important is because that is the first step to change. People who do not acknowledge a problem exists do not change. They see no need to change. The next step is for them to set about a few goals relevant to their acknowledged need to change. Simply put, if a person does not know where they are going then they will not get there.

The question, "How do you love her?" has to be answered with more substance than the answer provided. It needs to be answered practically, or practicably. Take, for example, the 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 passage. Scripture always operationalizes love; it does not assert love merely as an emotion or feeling, or a warm oogly sensation in your body. Love is kind. When a person is not kind they are not loving. Love is patient, forbearing, hopeful, trusting, etc. Gary Chapman's book, "The Five Love Languages" is good because it operationalizes love and helps the reader understand how they and their partner experience love. This is important because most husbands and most wives experience love differently from one another. The five "languages" of love are words of affirmation, physical (nonsexual) touch, quality time, gifts, and acts of service. People tend to love others the way they want to be loved and those who grew up in homes where love was not well-expressed may have difficulty doing so when they marry and the demands of intimacy come to bear on their relationship. If, for example, you are a "gifts" kind of guy and your wife is an "acts" kind of gall then you could gift her and gift her and gift her until you were bankrupt, but she may never feel loved because she doesn't recognize that language...... and vice versa. There's an abbreviated online test that can help each of you understand your own love language. "Love" is simply a word we use to indicate value. I value you in a unique way that I do not share or give anyone else. That is what we're supposed to be doing in marriage: valuing each other in an exclusive, unique, and increasingly intimate way. We get wed in ten minutes. It takes a lifetime to love one person.

Common ground: Where people have agreement they have relationship. Where they do not have agreement, they do not have relationship. Common ground is necessary. I assume you both agree depression is not good for a marriage. That would be common ground. However, it would be "negative" common ground. What is something "positive" or something goal-oriented upon which the two of you agree and/or can mutually and collaboratively pursue. For example, what forms of physical intimacy are agreed upon in this marriage. Every couple explores this and comes to some degree, large or small, expressly verbal or not, on this topic. Are public displays of affection allowed, and if so then what, specifically. most women do not want to b fondled in public and some husbands have to have the difference between fondling and groping explained to them. Common ground can be mundane, like who does what chores. In my house whoever cooks does not do the dishes and the dishes are done before going to bed. How do we pay the bills (50/50 or as a percentage of income?). Are finances pooled, wholly separated, or divided three ways (pooled with a small portion set aside for each individual to do with as they wish)? How and when do we talk about things we do not like, which is really nothing more than how and when can we discuss real or perceived need for change? Most arguments are nothing more than 1) a need for change, and/or 2) a plea for value and affection. Few things in life are as powerful as feeling heard. Your wife will never again be heard by her father (if she ever was in the first place) :(. Start small. Most couples were on their best behavior during courtship. If you knew how crazy I am you wouldn't love me (and if you don't love me then you're never going to marry me or allow me to marry you :openmouth:). The two of you will eventually have to sort out what's always been there versus what was triggered by her father's demise. That's not easy for anyone.

I'm going to stop here because this post is long, and I've got to go soon but I'll return to further elaborate. My question about exercise is designed to get you to think about how what you do makes you a better husband, not just how life is better when you're fit, or when endorphins are pumped into your system. If something does not help you be a better husband then maybe it should be put aside, at least for a season. Think of the question in a different way: How does X help you be a better Christian? Reading the Bible should be a helpful something. Watching slasher horror movies may not. I was a big "gym rat" when my wife and I met. As we dated longer and longer going to the gym for a workout, dinner afterwards, and movie (or whatever) became a part of our courtship. However, I had to make adjustment because apart from here I might spend two hours four days in a row, take one day off and then repeat.... so left to my own devices I was spending a lot of time in the gym. That wasn't possible when I got married and even less so when we started having kids. Even less so when I went back to grad school. If an hour at the gym is recompensed with an hour doing something of service for my wife, or deliberate time spent affirming her and her hobbies then that might be an example of how exercising has a positive benefit on the marriage but if that's done rotely it's not actually me being a better husband. That would be me being a better mechanic of surgeon in my marriage, not a better lover.


In review:

  • Discuss the problem(s) and reach a shared understand of the problem(s), or at least a few of the things needing improvement.
  • Reconceptualize them into goals to pursue together. You or she may have to work on one goal more than the other person, but with another goal the proportions may be reversed. My wife cannot stop me from being angry, but she can provide me with a relationship and support that empowers me to take more of the onus on myself knowing she has my back.
  • Figure out practical ways to value one another, ways that are observable and measurable so that you know it happened, she knows it happened, you know she knows it happened and she knows you know it happened :cool:. Whatever else is going on in your lives you can always love her. I would venture to say this is a great deal of the Christian life because regardless of whatever else it is God has me doing in service to Him..... I am God's agent of His love for that woman I married, and it's taken me thirty years to figure that out and I'm still learning.
  • Parallel to the pursuit of goals, and the loving that ideally the two of you are learning to do, there's the establishing of common ground. That's not going to happen without opening your mouths and speaking with one another. It's not going to happen without closing your mouths and actively listening to one another, either. So, one of the good place to start might be a collaborative reading of a book on basic marital communication. I recommend "Boundaries Face to Face," by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's a simple and fast read. No chapter is longer than three or four pages. you learn something, she learns something, and then the two of you take turns discussing what you've learned, affirming one another and expressing gratitude, and you grow common ground in the process. Another book I recommend is "Letters to Philip." There's a companion tome for wives, but I've not found that is as effective with couples, especially younger ones (the book was written in the 1960s).
  • Think about what helps you be a better husband. Do more of what helps, less of what obstructs.

Understand that all of the above is going to be win-win for you. You get to be a better man, period. I have no idea whether or not the two of you will salvage the marriage (you cannot do it alone) but I am rooting for you. If the marriage fails you are going to hurt. I don't mean to be insensitive, but I don't care. Put on your big boy panties, put the bit in your mouth and start acting like an adopted son of The Most High God....... whether you are successful saving the marriage or not. Most folks remarry. You may not. Most folks don't want to consider the prospect fresh off a divorce (and that's generally a good idea). Some fools rush back into another marriage and repeat their mistakes because they haven't learned about themselves. The above is for the two of you but you do your part and you'll be better for doing so. Along the way your wife will benefit, even if she does not heal from what I suspect is a bereavement gone awry (keep in mind it's completely inappropriate for anyone who hasn't met your wife and heard from her to diagnose her and start prescribing treatment. All of the above is good for any marriage and, sadly, most of our parents did not teach us these things. Take what you can from the above and put the rest on the proverbial back burner until it's useful or not needed.

Gotta go. Blessings and hope
 
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Rescued One

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I (a female) was married for over forty years to someone who abandoned marriage counselling if I brought up anything that bothered me. Attending church didn't help. He didn't think being a Christian meant we should obey God and I didn't nag! He never mentioned the sermons. He didn't want to talk about anything at home. He could lose his temper with others but didn't with me. It was weird. We stayed married until he passed away. I still appreciate that he provided for the family, and didn't overspend. I can't give advice. But if a person doesn't want to change, that person won't.
I don't imagine it's your fault. Do prayers change a spouse? I don't know.
 
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pat4545

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I (a female) was married for over forty years to someone who abandoned marriage counselling if I brought up anything that bothered me. Attending church didn't help. He didn't think being a Christian meant we should obey God and I didn't nag! He never mentioned the sermons. He didn't want to talk about anything at home. He could lose his temper with others but didn't with me. It was weird. We stayed married until he passed away. I still appreciate that he provided for the family, and didn't overspend. I can't give advice. But if a person doesn't want to change, that person won't.
I don't imagine it's your fault. Do prayers change a spouse? I don't know.
I completely agree that with the change. If people want something bad enough they will find a way most of the time. She wasn't always this way, she has just gotten worse and changed over the years into something worse.
 
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pat4545

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@pat4545, your html tags are all awry. I'll try to reply as best I can and if I miss something you've posted then just post it again.

The reason her acknowledgement is important is because that is the first step to change. People who do not acknowledge a problem exists do not change. They see no need to change. The next step is for them to set about a few goals relevant to their acknowledged need to change. Simply put, if a person does not know where they are going then they will not get there.

The question, "How do you love her?" has to be answered with more substance than the answer provided. It needs to be answered practically, or practicably. Take, for example, the 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 passage. Scripture always operationalizes love; it does not assert love merely as an emotion or feeling, or a warm oogly sensation in your body. Love is kind. When a person is not kind they are not loving. Love is patient, forbearing, hopeful, trusting, etc. Gary Chapman's book, "The Five Love Languages" is good because it operationalizes love and helps the reader understand how they and their partner experience love. This is important because most husbands and most wives experience love differently from one another. The five "languages" of love are words of affirmation, physical (nonsexual) touch, quality time, gifts, and acts of service. People tend to love others the way they want to be loved and those who grew up in homes where love was not well-expressed may have difficulty doing so when they marry and the demands of intimacy come to bear on their relationship. If, for example, you are a "gifts" kind of guy and your wife is an "acts" kind of gall then you could gift her and gift her and gift her until you were bankrupt, but she may never feel loved because she doesn't recognize that language...... and vice versa. There's an abbreviated online test that can help each of you understand your own love language. "Love" is simply a word we use to indicate value. I value you in a unique way that I do not share or give anyone else. That is what we're supposed to be doing in marriage: valuing each other in an exclusive, unique, and increasingly intimate way. We get wed in ten minutes. It takes a lifetime to love one person.

Common ground: Where people have agreement they have relationship. Where they do not have agreement, they do not have relationship. Common ground is necessary. I assume you both agree depression is not good for a marriage. That would be common ground. However, it would be "negative" common ground. What is something "positive" or something goal-oriented upon which the two of you agree and/or can mutually and collaboratively pursue. For example, what forms of physical intimacy are agreed upon in this marriage. Every couple explores this and comes to some degree, large or small, expressly verbal or not, on this topic. Are public displays of affection allowed, and if so then what, specifically. most women do not want to b fondled in public and some husbands have to have the difference between fondling and groping explained to them. Common ground can be mundane, like who does what chores. In my house whoever cooks does not do the dishes and the dishes are done before going to bed. How do we pay the bills (50/50 or as a percentage of income?). Are finances pooled, wholly separated, or divided three ways (pooled with a small portion set aside for each individual to do with as they wish)? How and when do we talk about things we do not like, which is really nothing more than how and when can we discuss real or perceived need for change? Most arguments are nothing more than 1) a need for change, and/or 2) a plea for value and affection. Few things in life are as powerful as feeling heard. Your wife will never again be heard by her father (if she ever was in the first place) :(. Start small. Most couples were on their best behavior during courtship. If you knew how crazy I am you wouldn't love me (and if you don't love me then you're never going to marry me or allow me to marry you :openmouth:). The two of you will eventually have to sort out what's always been there versus what was triggered by her father's demise. That's not easy for anyone.

I'm going to stop here because this post is long, and I've got to go soon but I'll return to further elaborate. My question about exercise is designed to get you to think about how what you do makes you a better husband, not just how life is better when you're fit, or when endorphins are pumped into your system. If something does not help you be a better husband then maybe it should be put aside, at least for a season. Think of the question in a different way: How does X help you be a better Christian? Reading the Bible should be a helpful something. Watching slasher horror movies may not. I was a big "gym rat" when my wife and I met. As we dated longer and longer going to the gym for a workout, dinner afterwards, and movie (or whatever) became a part of our courtship. However, I had to make adjustment because apart from here I might spend two hours four days in a row, take one day off and then repeat.... so left to my own devices I was spending a lot of time in the gym. That wasn't possible when I got married and even less so when we started having kids. Even less so when I went back to grad school. If an hour at the gym is recompensed with an hour doing something of service for my wife, or deliberate time spent affirming her and her hobbies then that might be an example of how exercising has a positive benefit on the marriage but if that's done rotely it's not actually me being a better husband. That would be me being a better mechanic of surgeon in my marriage, not a better lover.


In review:

  • Discuss the problem(s) and reach a shared understand of the problem(s), or at least a few of the things needing improvement.
  • Reconceptualize them into goals to pursue together. You or she may have to work on one goal more than the other person, but with another goal the proportions may be reversed. My wife cannot stop me from being angry, but she can provide me with a relationship and support that empowers me to take more of the onus on myself knowing she has my back.
  • Figure out practical ways to value one another, ways that are observable and measurable so that you know it happened, she knows it happened, you know she knows it happened and she knows you know it happened :cool:. Whatever else is going on in your lives you can always love her. I would venture to say this is a great deal of the Christian life because regardless of whatever else it is God has me doing in service to Him..... I am God's agent of His love for that woman I married, and it's taken me thirty years to figure that out and I'm still learning.
  • Parallel to the pursuit of goals, and the loving that ideally the two of you are learning to do, there's the establishing of common ground. That's not going to happen without opening your mouths and speaking with one another. It's not going to happen without closing your mouths and actively listening to one another, either. So, one of the good place to start might be a collaborative reading of a book on basic marital communication. I recommend "Boundaries Face to Face," by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's a simple and fast read. No chapter is longer than three or four pages. you learn something, she learns something, and then the two of you take turns discussing what you've learned, affirming one another and expressing gratitude, and you grow common ground in the process. Another book I recommend is "Letters to Philip." There's a companion tome for wives, but I've not found that is as effective with couples, especially younger ones (the book was written in the 1960s).
  • Think about what helps you be a better husband. Do more of what helps, less of what obstructs.

Understand that all of the above is going to be win-win for you. You get to be a better man, period. I have no idea whether or not the two of you will salvage the marriage (you cannot do it alone) but I am rooting for you. If the marriage fails you are going to hurt. I don't mean to be insensitive, but I don't care. Put on your big boy panties, put the bit in your mouth and start acting like an adopted son of The Most High God....... whether you are successful saving the marriage or not. Most folks remarry. You may not. Most folks don't want to consider the prospect fresh off a divorce (and that's generally a good idea). Some fools rush back into another marriage and repeat their mistakes because they haven't learned about themselves. The above is for the two of you but you do your part and you'll be better for doing so. Along the way your wife will benefit, even if she does not heal from what I suspect is a bereavement gone awry (keep in mind it's completely inappropriate for anyone who hasn't met your wife and heard from her to diagnose her and start prescribing treatment. All of the above is good for any marriage and, sadly, most of our parents did not teach us these things. Take what you can from the above and put the rest on the proverbial back burner until it's useful or not needed.

Gotta go. Blessings and hope
yes the tags did get messed up. Thank you I just skimmed I have to get going but I am going read this fully when I get a little more time. As for the bible I think its a wonderful book. It basically has the basic stuff for a proper respectful relationship and gets people to work together.

In her opinion she thinks the bible is a joke and doesn't believe it at all. She use to be more religious but along the way she doesn't want to hear one word out of it. I have to be careful what I say around her otherwise it turns into as nasty fight.
 
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