dead faith??

Lifelong_sinner

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hello all. i need some help trying to explain my lack of salvation. odd, i know. my personal belief is that of calvinism. i grew up going to church, i have always believed that Jesus died for everyones sins. He rose on the 3rd day, and after death, we will be judged by Him. i was baptized when i was 16 i think? cant remember the year. my issue though is that i truly believe im a false convert. why? i dont find myself having any of the good fruit.
can a saved person produce no good fruit? didnt james speak on this and say faith without works is not saving faith? im trying to figure out how to explain this in easy terms. my folks are concerned, but i cant seem to explain my beliefs to them so they understand.
 
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Jeshu

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My dear brother you are looking wrongly. In the struggle for salvation we don't look at ourselves but at Jesus. So if you notice that you have no good fruit then you need to go to Jesus.

Jesus died for every bodies sins, yours as well. It is for you to place faith in God's love - Jesus Christ - He saves us from our sins.

Does not one of the articles say that we get to know Jesus through our sins and misery - it is really like that. When the word shows you your sin then go to Jesus straight away and confess and repent from it - time and again if you have to - and thank God for grace.

Here is the clue to your happiness, accept salvation and you will begin to love Jesus, each time He saves you a bit more. The love growing in you will produce good works in you you can be certain of that for it is heavenly love that grows in us.

The more you go to Jesus with your sin and fruitless life the more you will love Him for grace - the more you love Him for grace the more that love will compel you to do things for Him. If it was only praising Him for grace.

So look at Jesus and let Him perfect you and shape your good works in you. The more you accept His grace the quicker you will begin to produce fruit.

Be warned if you keep looking at yourself a sinner and deny yourself grace then you will wither away for satan will be in charge of your heart and you will fear God greatly instead of love Him. (i know i have been there no fun.)

Peace.

An invitation to The Chosen.

God's Love will not take or will
you to conform to rules or demand
which imprison, enslave, burn or kill you.

God's Love will not pervert what's Good
The Lord loves truthfully Wise and Good.
True Love was, is and always will be Good!

In God's Love you are free to be right!
In His love everything is good proper and kind.
He loves all who love good and true to rule!

His Love is caring, providing, and sharing.
His Love always enjoys and protects good life.
His love rules even when bad life has being in us!

Hear Jesus call - 'Come join up with us all!
Leave whatever ties you down and be free
loving good life with all God's own to be.'

To the rest in your heart God's asks
how long will you tarry in the darkness?
Please leave such bad existence within.

For life must not, no never should, or would, or could,
be forceful, rude, prideful, arrogant, selfish, lustful
or otherwise be untrue to God's loving truth.

Neither should life be hurting or ill,
hungry, oppressed, despised, hated
or otherwise have existence in wrong.

Please hand your Bad Life over to Jesus
Humbly ask for His Good Life back in return
and go love God, self and neighbour with Joy.

The Church knows that Jesus is coming soon
All bad life will be our shameful past then,
so please leave your bad life while you can!

Love
 
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Llewelyn Stevenson

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How do you find yourself not having any of the good fruit? What do you know of the meaning of baptism? Please note that I am not calvinist but I do not intend to oppose their beliefs, just help you to understand who you are in Christ and how that works out. However I am not up to speed on Calvin's theology so I cannot express what he taught.
 
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Rescued One

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I believe that God saved me so that I could know Him.The siblings I grew up with haven't become Christians. My parents and siblings didn't teach me about God. In fact my father and mother divorced when I was almost nine. My father became an atheist. My mother and her parents didn't read the Bible. I think my mother was a deist or Unitarian. She didn't attend church or teach her six children about God or how to pray. God arranged everything that brought me to Christ. He doesn't give anyone dead faith. Only Christians have living faith and that means they love Christ.

John 14
23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
 
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Hazelelponi

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hello all. i need some help trying to explain my lack of salvation. odd, i know. my personal belief is that of calvinism. i grew up going to church, i have always believed that Jesus died for everyones sins. He rose on the 3rd day, and after death, we will be judged by Him. i was baptized when i was 16 i think? cant remember the year. my issue though is that i truly believe im a false convert. why? i dont find myself having any of the good fruit.
can a saved person produce no good fruit? didnt james speak on this and say faith without works is not saving faith? im trying to figure out how to explain this in easy terms. my folks are concerned, but i cant seem to explain my beliefs to them so they understand.

I agree with Jeshu, that our Faith for Salvation is in Jesus' work, not our own. There are no amount of works a man can do to earn salvation, as Scripture tells us our righteousness is like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6). This is shown also in the parable of the wedding banquet in Matthew 22, where in Matthew 22:11-12 the King threw out the guest not wearing wedding clothes. Our "wedding" clothing, as people of faith is the righteousness of Christ (Isaiah 61:10, Galatians 3:27, Romans 13:14)

That said faith without works is dead... If you love your girlfriend your not going to beat her up on Saturday night, your going to say and do the things that make her happy because you love her and want to see her happy.

It's the same with God in similar manner really... if you love Him for this gift of salvation He's given, your going to do those things that are pleasing to him.

Does it sometimes require dedication? Yes in much the same way a marriage requires dedication and work to make work, so our relationship with God requires a dedication and effort.

You may be busy and not want to do something, but you dedicate the time to do it anyway because it's good for you and good for your relationship with God, like reading the Bible every day, or prayer. You do it in love, as it helps you get to know God more and grow in Christ, but it's also a good part self discipline... you have to stop and say this is important enough to carve out some time from my busy day, maybe skip time you may otherwise spend with freinds in order to do it.

At your age, it's likely a feature of self discipline your lacking, rather than salvation itself. Being saved doesn't magically make you the perfect Christian, you'll grow in Christ as your life goes on... you'll make mistakes, even commit a sin or two before it's all over.. but God will be with you every step of the way. Just because we fall short, doesn't mean He is unfaithful ( 2 Timothy 2:13), God is ever faithful.. :)
 
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marc b

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Have you seen people in love? Breathless glowing people with permanent foolish grin, so happy they could almost walk on air. Their always looking at that person, following every move, adoring them, almost worshiping them.

Human love is a foretaste of our relationship with God. The high from human love eventually goes down because we are fallible. But the high in a relationship with God is a gift that will keep on giving. That is what Christianity is supposed to be, a loving flowing relationship with Him. Not the dry lifeless doctrines we humans have made it into.

The bible tells us that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. It is the fruit of what? That's right...the Spirit. It's not us pushing ourselves to bear fruit, that is impossible coz we don't have it in us. It is the presence of the Spirit in us that bears fruit. It's this Life in us that produces life (fruits, good works, eternal life). Pursue the Spirit then, thirst for Him, find Him at all costs. Because your very life depends on it.

*John 5:39~40 "You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
 
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fhansen

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hello all. i need some help trying to explain my lack of salvation. odd, i know. my personal belief is that of calvinism. i grew up going to church, i have always believed that Jesus died for everyones sins. He rose on the 3rd day, and after death, we will be judged by Him. i was baptized when i was 16 i think? cant remember the year. my issue though is that i truly believe im a false convert. why? i dont find myself having any of the good fruit.
can a saved person produce no good fruit? didnt james speak on this and say faith without works is not saving faith? im trying to figure out how to explain this in easy terms. my folks are concerned, but i cant seem to explain my beliefs to them so they understand.
The doctrine of Sola Fide causes a fair amount of confusion in this area. We're saved by faith, via faith, through faith, because faith is the establishment of direct relationship or communion with God, 'apart from whom man can do nothing', a communion we were made for and are lost, dead, etc, without. Yes, fellowship with God necessarily produces fruit, the most basic of which is to begin to overcome sin by the aid of the Spirit. And it can be a struggle but we're enabled now with a new righteousness given:
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9
 
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tdidymas

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hello all. i need some help trying to explain my lack of salvation. odd, i know. my personal belief is that of calvinism. i grew up going to church, i have always believed that Jesus died for everyones sins. He rose on the 3rd day, and after death, we will be judged by Him. i was baptized when i was 16 i think? cant remember the year. my issue though is that i truly believe im a false convert. why? i dont find myself having any of the good fruit.
can a saved person produce no good fruit? didnt james speak on this and say faith without works is not saving faith? im trying to figure out how to explain this in easy terms. my folks are concerned, but i cant seem to explain my beliefs to them so they understand.
Jesus came to save us from our sins - this is the gospel in a "nutshell." If you're looking in the spiritual mirror and seeing that you're having no victory over sin, the only recourse you have is to trust Christ to heal you from your wrong ways. Faith = trusting Christ to give you the Holy Spirit (so that your life will bear the right fruit).

Another pitfall to avoid is listening to false guilt from unclean voices. Satan is an adversary, and he is also a false accuser. We can grow in faith by taking a stand that Christ's suffering is sufficient to make us clean from sin and make us holy to God. This requires a mentality about our identity, that we start thinking and believing that we belong to Christ, and that He is dealing with us. It is a lifetime learning experience.

It also takes a long term vision. "..fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith." We have to practice daily the idea that Christ is our guide in life, and pay close attention to His words. In this way, we get the assurance that our relationship with Him is real and ongoing. If we're looking at ourselves and our lack, then our faith in Christ will wane. If we're looking at Christ, His love, and His virtue, then that vision will change us. Keep reading the scripture, as Peter wrote "as newborn babes, long for the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby."
TD:)
 
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St_Worm2

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The doctrine of Sola Fide causes a fair amount of confusion in this area. We're saved by faith, via faith, through faith, because faith is the establishment of direct relationship or communion with God, 'apart from whom man can do nothing', a communion we were made for and are lost, dead, etc, without. Yes, fellowship with God necessarily produces fruit, the most basic of which is to begin to overcome sin by the aid of the Spirit. And it can be a struggle but we're enabled now with a new righteous given:
"...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith." Phil 3:9
Hello fhansen, I agree with most or perhaps all of what you just said ("all" would have to be from a particular POV, of course ;)). One point that I'd like to make (as a reminder) is that the doctrine of sola fide often causes confusion (in almost all of the cases that I've encountered) because what it actually teaches is most often misunderstood (to one degree or another). In fact, all of the Doctrines of Grace are, though I've never completely understood why they are (and these misunderstandings are hardly from the RC side of things alone).

You said, "faith (saving faith) is the establishment" of our communion with God, but that's not the end of the matter, is it? Faith (sanctifying faith) is one of the things that is at the heart of our new and ongoing life in Christ, yes, to our growing communion/relationship with Him, as He enables us to come alongside of/work together with Him toward our sanctification .. e.g. Romans 1:17; Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13?

While I'm fairly certain that we agree on that last point, I was surprised by some of the wording that you closed your post with (see your quoted words in bold above). The reason that I say this is due to what I know of the doctrines that best define the (most) fundamental difference(s) between the Catholic and Protestant faiths, the doctrine of infusion and the doctrine of imputation.

While we both agree that our salvation is dependent upon our sins being "imputed" or credited to our Savior's account (because He becomes "sin" not a "sinner" on our behalf), the same (at least to my present understanding anyway) cannot be said about the other side of the coin (if you will), IOW, that His righteousness is imputed/credited to 'our' accounts, and yet, that seems to be what you said in your last post. Yes?/No?

@Lifelong_sinner, I apologize for the thread drift here, but I was interested in understanding what @fhansen meant (by the words of his that I put in bold above). I promise that I will not continue with it.

Thank you!

God bless you both!

--David
p.s. - @Lifelong_sinner, I'll address your OP next, but I wanted to let you know that I am praying for you. (also, though a minor soteriological point in this case, if you have always held to what Arminians call, "unlimited atonement", IOW, that the Lord Jesus died for ~everyone's~ sins w/o exception, then your personal belief has never been Calvinism)

2 Corinthians 5
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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thank you to everyone that responded. it actually helped me to see that i am indeed a false convert. For the last year and a half, i have desperately tried to find salvation, and am unable to. i do realize that i do believe in Jesus, but i do not have the Holy Spirit in me. this is proven by my bad fruit.
some have asked, what do i consider to be bad fruit examples...
an old lady was struggling with groceries, i walked by not looking at her. my mother helped her instead.
i think the capitol raid of last week was a good thing.
i have been living in sexual sin for 30 years. daily.
i dont goto church.
i dont read the Bible.
i have a sense of me and my family versus the world.
i have no self control whatsoever.
i have no patience, especially while driving.

the list goes on and on... but you get the picture.
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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thank you to everyone that responded. it actually helped me to see that i am indeed a false convert. For the last year and a half, i have desperately tried to find salvation, and am unable to. i do realize that i do believe in Jesus, but i do not have the Holy Spirit in me. this is proven by my bad fruit.
some have asked, what do i consider to be bad fruit examples...
an old lady was struggling with groceries, i walked by not looking at her. my mother helped her instead.
i think the capitol raid of last week was a good thing.
i have been living in sexual sin for 30 years. daily.
i dont goto church.
i dont read the Bible.
i have a sense of me and my family versus the world.
i have no self control whatsoever.
i have no patience, especially while driving.

the list goes on and on... but you get the picture.
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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thank you to everyone that responded. it actually helped me to see that i am indeed a false convert. For the last year and a half, i have desperately tried to find salvation, and am unable to. i do realize that i do believe in Jesus, but i do not have the Holy Spirit in me. this is proven by my bad fruit.
some have asked, what do i consider to be bad fruit examples...
an old lady was struggling with groceries, i walked by not looking at her. my mother helped her instead.
i think the capitol raid of last week was a good thing.
i have been living in sexual sin for 30 years. daily.
i dont goto church.
i dont read the Bible.
i have a sense of me and my family versus the world.
i have no self control whatsoever.
i have no patience, especially while driving.

the list goes on and on... but you get the picture.
 
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Hazelelponi

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thank you to everyone that responded. it actually helped me to see that i am indeed a false convert. For the last year and a half, i have desperately tried to find salvation, and am unable to. i do realize that i do believe in Jesus, but i do not have the Holy Spirit in me. this is proven by my bad fruit.
some have asked, what do i consider to be bad fruit examples...
an old lady was struggling with groceries, i walked by not looking at her. my mother helped her instead.
i think the capitol raid of last week was a good thing.
i have been living in sexual sin for 30 years. daily.
i dont goto church.
i dont read the Bible.
i have a sense of me and my family versus the world.
i have no self control whatsoever.
i have no patience, especially while driving.

the list goes on and on... but you get the picture.

I want to share that for me, I found salvation not as something you find, as it's existent. Salvation is simply something you come to understand, and once you understand it, e.g. that understanding reaches the core of your being, you'll be saved, because you get it... that's the believe in your heart part of Romans 10:9, confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord comes immediately following belief, because you get it.

(P.S. sorry for thinking you were young earlier... lol)

It's possible you were more culturally Christian than a person of faith... but that's okay, so long as your still breathing there's still time to come to a saving faith...

I do think @St_Worm2 or @JM are exceedingly good at explaining things, very thorough, but I think sometimes hearing for some works better, others reading, others possibly both..

I'll share with you this Pastor, he's one of my favorites, im tjis video hes speaking of the Gospel and the importance of getting it right... if you take the time to listen to this for an hour you'll likely find it very beneficial:


But we can talk about salvation too.. :) I do think once you actually have the understanding you'll be saved.

Sometimes that takes hearing it more than one way, or from more than one person. I was so hardheaded I usually say God had to hit me over the head with a skillet... lol. It took me a good while.. but it was all worth it.. :)
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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I think for me, i simply dont know what else i can do. i have watched video after video after video, read books, i've been baptized, i've repented, i've begged God to save me. i feel like i've done everything i can think of, and yet it eludes me. i dont know why though.
 
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fhansen

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You said, "faith (saving faith) is the establishment" of our communion with God, but that's not the end of the matter, is it? Faith (sanctifying faith) is one of the things that is at the heart of our new and ongoing life in Christ, yes, to our growing communion/relationship with Him, as He enables us to come alongside of/work together with Him toward our sanctification .. e.g. Romans 1:17; Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13?
Yes-it most certainly isn't the end of the matter but the beginning, in fact, the beginning of a new life of union with God, the beginning of life eternal, the beginning of the salvation that we work out together with He who works in us to the extent that we remain in Him and He in us.
While we both agree that our salvation is dependent upon our sins being "imputed" or credited to our Savior's account (because He becomes "sin" not a "sinner" on our behalf), the same (at least to my present understanding anyway) cannot be said about the other side of the coin (if you will), IOW, that His righteousness is imputed/credited to 'our' accounts, and yet, that seems to be what you said in your last post. Yes?/No?
Yes, this is sort of the heart of the matter-and the main reason that Sola Fide can be confusing. By Christ’s sacrifice and our faith in Him and His work we’re justified-made just. We’re forgiven, cleansed, washed, and made new creations, enabled to 'go, and sin no more', because we’ve been given righteous; we’re not merely snow-covered dung-heaps which is effectively no different than white-washed tombs, clean on the outside while still dirty on the inside. The new covenant is about real change, with the “righteousness of God” imparted or infused. So read Phil 3:9 in light of that understanding:
“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.”

And,
“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it.” Rom 3:21

“Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.“ Rom 5:1-2

“…just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

“For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.” Rom 6:6

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”
Rom 8:12-13

“This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” 1 John 1:5-7

The basis or essence of man’s unrighteousness is separation or disassociation from God. The basis of man's righteousness is communion with God. Within that union or fellowship God does a work in us, of placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. Historically the justice or righteousness that is said to be infused into man are the virtues of faith, hope, and love, with love being the most important, arguably encompassing the others anyway.

As Paul put it in 1 Cor 13:
“…if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing.”

And Augustine could later say,
“Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing.”

So,
“And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.” Rom 5:5

And love, of course, fulfills the law (Rom 13:10). We have to understand that faith is not the equivalent of righteousness for man, nor is it a replacement for it nor is it a license to be free from the obligation to be righteous. Rather, it’s the authentic means to righteousness for man because it’s the means, the doorway, to the Author of true goodness and righteousness. “Apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). Faith is all about being with Him.

And to a Catholic there's no real difference between justification and sanctification; it's all part of the same process. Once justified we're to begin to walk and talk like it, like children of God, and continue to do so while expected to grow even more in holiness, in nearness to Him, and definitely not turn sharply back away even though there's reconciliation to be had for that, for repentant hearts, if necessary.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I think for me, i simply dont know what else i can do. i have watched video after video after video, read books, i've been baptized, i've repented, i've begged God to save me. i feel like i've done everything i can think of, and yet it eludes me. i dont know why though.

Let's try to flesh out why your feeling this way, i.e. that salvation somehow eludes you... what exactly makes you feel this way? Is there anything specific that you can name? Any feeling that you can describe fully?
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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1. Sexual sin. going on daily for just over 30 yrs. i understand that we all sin, but it shouldnt be something that we like so much, that we give in and are powerless to stop.
2. i have not been regenerated. i know this as i do not produce any good fruit.
 
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tdidymas

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I think for me, i simply dont know what else i can do. i have watched video after video after video, read books, i've been baptized, i've repented, i've begged God to save me. i feel like i've done everything i can think of, and yet it eludes me. i dont know why though.
It appears to me what you are searching for is assurance of salvation. Stop looking to your feelings for it and start believing that God is working with you in it.

Faith has an element of assumption. It is not assumption only, but assumption with intention. If you intend to follow Christ, this would be a major part of faith. Part of following Christ is to forsake what you know is wrong, namely adultery - except if it's one woman you consider a common law wife. But if it was with many different women and no lifetime commitment to the last one, this would be adultery in God's sight. The assumption part is to start acting as if what Jesus said and His apostles wrote is true. It means you need to read the Bible.

I recommend starting with one of the gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. You should be reading with the idea that Christ will reveal Himself to you through what you're reading. Get familiar with Jesus' words and intend to follow them in every aspect of your life. Follow all the advice of Jesus and His apostles. These are the first steps to growing faith, and this is the only way that you will ever obtain assurance of your salvation (2 Pet. 1:3-11).
TD:)
 
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