"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Was Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 fulfilled in the 1st century/70ad?


  • Total voters
    4

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Matthew 24:1
And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.

Mark 13:1
And He going forth out of the Temple,
one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings

Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple,
that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
.

Incorrect. As usual, you are thinking carnal, just like the disciples who thought Christ was talking about the physical buildings before the resurrection.

We don't have to speculate, we search the scriptures to find out when the holy city was destroyed. When, is not subject to our own personal opinions or private interpretations. So the question is, when does the Bible illustrate that the Holy City was Destroyed, and more importantly how was it destroyed?

Matthew 23:37-38
  • "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
  • Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
Was this Holy City, this Jerusalem, Christ was talking about, left desolate in AD 70? Of course not! It was left spiritually desolate because it is the Old Testament congregation that Christ was speaking about. Christ is not talking about a physical city being destroyed, or physical bricks falling in ruin, but of a corporate people of God. More specifically, a PEOPLE, not literal bricks, who had rejected God's servants and prophets despite God's care and care of them. A people who were supposed to be the holy city but who loved abominations rather than righteousness and as a result would be left desolate, and no longer be the city of peace, representing His Kingdom. Jesus was not talking about a city being destroyed by Romans some 37 years later, but a spiritual city brought to blindness and ruin by their wickedness. Selah!

The fact is, interpretations don't belong to Josephus, they belong to God (Genesis 40:8). God doesn't leave it up to human bias, historians or man to judge so-called Biblical facts. If that were the case, we would all come to totally different conclusions reading the same Bible. Which (by the way) is the very reason that we have so many diverse interpretations in the churches. Because so many professing Christians do not hold to the sound hermeneutic of allowing the Bible to interpret itself. People use the methodology of thinking they can "of themselves" discern truth through speculation and secular history. No way that is a sound system. The truth about prophecy is found upon the pages of the Bible, Not on the pages of history books and YouTube videos that you build a doctrine upon, Little Lamb! The Spirit of God that is within every believer does NOT reveal whether historical facts/events line up with prophecies, it reveals when scripture lines up with scripture, when it is in harmony with itself, thus revealing the truth of how God Himself interpret imagery, symbols and prophecies. Get it, Little Lamb?

By contrast, you seem to be saying that history, as found in secular history books, is an accurate way to interpret God's word. Then if that is what you believe, I would say that is an unsound system of interpretation. Assumption is the mother of errors. Secular History may be true, but it also may not be. For "History is written by the victors," and we should never assume that what is written is the truth just because it finds its way into renowned books. Nevertheless, even if it were "mostly" true, we can never use secular history to interpret or understand God's Word. God didn't inspire His holy word to be interpreted by books written by uninspired men like Josephus. The Bible is meant to be interpreted by the Bible, not by comparing it to what other men may have written. That's the most basic and fundamental of all sound interpretation. itself. The only infallible means of interpretation is an infallible word. Scripture interprets scripture because interpretations belong to God (Genesis 40:8 ), and God today speaks to us through His word. Anything else is a private interpretation.

2nd Peter 1:20
  • "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
Prophesy has never been subject to any man's historical observations, personal opinions, individual explanations, cute YouTube videos, or learned scholarly suppositions. Interpretation is by God through God's word alone.

Now, let find out what God talks about here:

Matthew 24:1-2
  • "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
  • And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
Of course, the natural man would look at this and "THINK" that God was speaking about a physical temple buildings, but the spiritual man knows God speaks of the congregation as a temple and those within it as the stones of that Temple. That's not something I made up, that's a Biblical fact. And as far as the prophecy, and despite suppositions to the contrary, our Lord was very specific saying not only that "not one stone would be left standing one upon another of it, but further amplified it by saying they (the stones one upon another) would all (BAR NONE) be thrown down! NONE of the building of the WHOLE CITY, including the Temple was standing! Even by using the vaunted secular history books we know of a certainty that more than one stone was "STILL" left standing one upon another after AD 70. In point of fact, to this very day there are foundation stones left standing "one upon another" of the physical Temple. Moreover, there were (and let's not forget this) many stones of the physical city Jerusalem left standing one upon another. Again, the qualifying prophecy was that "not one stone would be left standing one upon another. Too many people want to "ignore" this qualification because it doesn't fit or conform to their personal/private interpretations of this prophecy taking place in AD 70, like yours!

Luke 19:41-46
  • "And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
  • Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
  • For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
  • And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
  • And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
  • Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves."
Many Christians refuse to hear the part where Christ unambiguously says the WHOLE CITY shall be laid even with the ground and her children within her. It's very willfully convenient to leave that part out. Think about it. Who TRULY were the enemies of Jerusalem and how were they compassed round about her? Who truly brought the city to desolation? Was it the Romans? Or was it those who would smite the Shepherd? Only by comparing scripture with scripture will we ever know the "TRUE" answer to that. No, it's not the Romans! Christ said that the city Jerusalem itself and all its children (ie. children of the congregation) within would be laid even with the ground so that not one stone would be left standing one upon another. Again, Christ's specific qualification for fulfillment, not mine. Of course, today the physical city STILL remained with many stones left standing one upon another, which means that the physical city in AD 70 was NOT what Christ was speaking about in the prophecy. Only their spiritual city, the Old Testament congregation qualifies for having been completely laid even with the ground and brought to desolation. Do you realize that Christ did NOT weep for literal stones or for a physical city Jerusalem, he wept for His people!. The congregation Jerusalem, the people who were the stones and the city proper. It is "THEY" who would be brought to desolation or total ruin by their abominations, and it is they who were laid even with the ground. That is why the Apostle Paul also wept for his kinsmen according to the flesh. Because He understood that at that moment, they were no longer the people of God. That is the ruin that came upon Jerusalem because of her abominations.

Romans 9:8
  • "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Something has already taken place where the Old Testament congregation has been brought to ruin. They have been thrown down and would never be the representation of the holy city of God ever again! This is what the veil of the Holy Temple being torn in two signified.

Matthew 27:50-51
  • "Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
  • And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;"
This was the TRUE DESTRUCTION of Jerusalem, the holy city. This didn't occur in AD 70, but when Christ was crucified on the cross. When the Temple veil was torn in two and the rocks rent that symbolized there was instituted a new way, a New Temple (a rebuilding or as Biblically put, "Build again"). And in order for the building again, there would have to he been the ruin before. Selah! Have you already forgotten that Christ warned the Jews to destroy this temple and in three days He will rebuild it? For how do you rebuild up something that has not been previously brought down to ruin. Not one stone was left one upon another in that city because by their abominations, it was laid waste--the Kingdom was taken from them and given to another. Where all stones were thrown down, Christ came to start the rebuilding and became the cornerstone of that rebuilding. Not rebuilding a physical Temple as so many modern Christians suppose, but as God had always intended.

(End of Part One)
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
(Continued from Part One)

Matthew 21:42-43

  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
The Holy city representation of the congregation of God, the kingdom of God on Earth, was taken from Old Testament Congregation and was instituted in the New Testament Church, exactly three days after the fall! Christ is the beginning, the cornerstone of that rebuilding of what was brought to ruin. The people of the congregation built upon Him are the stones of that rebuilding of city and Temple. Thrown down, rebuilt, it's not rocket science, it's simply understanding Scripture spiritually, the way our Lord fully intended. Can't you understand that Christians are spiritual beings as "stones" of the building. We don't understand things in the way the world does but in the Spirit of truth. Comparing scripture with scripture in the only sound hermeneutic whereby we may understand righteously God's view of things.

1st Corinthians 2:13
  • "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
Not by comparing the carnal, natural and physical with the carnal, but by spiritual with spiritual. These are things that man's natural wisdom will miss as he looks to worldly or carnal interpretations through history books, nations, political rulers, YouTube, world map, etc.

It is only in searching the word of God where we will find how Jerusalem was brought to desolation and ruin, and when.

Matthew 12:25-27
  • "And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
  • And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
  • And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges."
Jerusalem was brought to ruin because it was a city that was divided against itself, no longer holy and couldn't stand. That's not talking about an inanimate object such as a physical city or physical stones, but people. Thus they were destroyed, every last stone laid level with the ground. And a rebuilding commenced in Christ as the first stone. This is the "TRUE" restoration of Israel, which secular history cannot dream of comprehending.

Joh 2:18-21
  • Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
  • Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
  • Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
  • But he spake of the temple of his body.

Acts 15:16-17

  • "After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
  • That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."
The tabernacle was fallen, and it had to be rebuilt, and the ruins restored, and this is all talking about Christ and the New Testament congregation. Look deeper into the prophecy and know that it is true. What many people don't understand is the spiritual nature of the Bible. Sorry to disappoint you, Little Lamb, but a literal Temple or rebuilding in 70AD is NOT in view. These people were represented as the "stones" by God that were laid level in ruin, and Christ was the beginning of a new building, with new stones - the Christians! Not physical stones. Selah! God is not interested in physical bricks falling except in seeing they may not see.

Matthew 21:41-43
  • "They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
  • Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
The Old Jerusalem was laid ruin at the cross by their rejection of Christ, the New Testament Jerusalem is built on their ruins, and we, as the "other husbandmen" are the stones of that "building again" of the ruins. One laid one upon another. These are spiritual truths, not truths anyone will find in secular history books or youtube, but ONLY in the word of God diligently searched out! And in searching it out we find that the Temple was destroyed at His death. But the responsibility for that destruction rests upon the head of those who rejected Christ. According to Daniel 9:26, they, the Jews, His people, did come and destroyed the city and the sanctuary, they are the very people who Jesus said (according to scripture) "destroy this temple," and in three days the Lord raised it up. Sure, YOU and Preterists, as well as some premillennialists can wax poetic about how no one really destroyed the Temple until AD 70, but according to prophesy, they not only did destroy the holy temple by their abominations but that it was left desolate (totally in ruins) by its abominations, not by Romans.

Look, Little Lamb, anyone can study history. I do, too! There is no Biblical law against the study of History. The problem comes in when Christians attempt to use secular history to prove fulfilled scripture as many did with the beasts, antichrist, or the city in Daniel and Revelation. Keep in mind, History doesn't prove scripture, scripture proves History. Biblical history! The scriptures are not in error, your understanding of them by trying to apply it to the physical building of Jerusalem is in BIG error. That can be very easily proven, IF we take Christ at his word when He says that not one stone will be left standing one upon another. For example, there were still many stones left standing one upon another after the Romans finished attacked the city, and anyone can prove that for themselves by buying an airplane ticket to Jerusalem today and seeing the ruins and walls and stones left standing one upon another. I am not kidding! Unless Jesus made a mistake in claiming they wouldn't be left that way, then obviously your understanding of what He truly was saying is deep flawed, Little Lamb.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Good questions Keras.
I went ahead and added a poll thread......I voted fulfilled since Luke 21 is the prophecy of the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem and the Temple......
I find it hard to credit that you and many others believe that Isaiah 61:2b-11 is fulfilled.
Did you read it carefully? When did the Lord make His victory and praise to be seen by all the nations? verse 11b
Luke 21 is a sequence of events; up to verse 24 it is about the destruction of 1st century Jerusalem and the scattering of the Jewish survivors. But from verse 25-36; it describes end time events. You are careless in your assertions.

The biggest problem for most in discerning Bible prophecy, is in the question of who is Israel; the Israel of God, to whom the prophesies belong.
People seem unable to differentiate the Jewish State of Israel from the true, faithful people of God. Those who believe in Him and who have accepted the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus, which is now the ONLY way to become a child of God. An Overcomer for Him; literally a genuine Israelite, whose heritage is the Promises of God. Ephesians 1:11-14

The Jews, those who call themselves Jewish, have another destiny and it isn't a good one. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 22:14, +
 
Upvote 0

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
(Continued from Part One)

Matthew 21:42-43

  • "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
  • Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."
The Holy city representation of the congregation of God, the kingdom of God on Earth, was taken from Old Testament Congregation and was instituted in the New Testament Church, exactly three days after the fall! Christ is the beginning, the cornerstone of that rebuilding of what was brought to ruin. The people of the congregation built upon Him are the stones of that rebuilding of city and Temple. Thrown down, rebuilt, it's not rocket science, it's simply understanding Scripture spiritually, the way our Lord fully intended. Can't you understand that Christians are spiritual beings as "stones" of the building. We don't understand things in the way the world does but in the Spirit of truth. Comparing scripture with scripture in the only sound hermeneutic whereby we may understand righteously God's view of things.


No one disagrees that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. Not even you do. God never does anything major without giving advanced warning first. The destroying of Jerusalem and the lives lost was major at the time. If none of these warnings can be found recorded in the Discourse, where can they be found then? I find it preposterous that God would have been silent on this in the Bible, and that He neglected to make mention of these events. Surely He would have inspired some of His authors to make mention of these things in the NT Scriptures. Why wouldn't He?
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
No one disagrees that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. Not even you do. God never does anything major without giving advanced warning first. The destroying of Jerusalem and the lives lost was major at the time. If none of these warnings can be found recorded in the Discourse, where can they be found then? I find it preposterous that God would have been silent on this in the Bible, and that He neglected to make mention of these events. Surely He would have inspired some of His authors to make mention of these things in the NT Scriptures. Why not?

No. Did you actually read the part two, too?

God did warn in the discourse but it is people without the spirit did not understand who the warning was for. Many thought Christ was talking about the physical stones of the city and temple in Jerusalem in 70AD (or for some Dispensationalists, the future temple and modern city of Jerusalem today). However, this is NOT what Christ actually prophesied about! His Olivet Discourse is a warning for His New Testament congregation that will fall prior to Second Coming, just like the Old Testament congregation did in Matthew 24:1-2.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The scriptures are not in error, your understanding of them by trying to apply it to the physical building of Jerusalem is in BIG error.
Your Spiritual approach to Bible prophecy, is just as big an error as preterism.
Both are quite wrong. Prophesies that can be literally fulfilled; will be. And the 2nd Temple was destroyed as Jesus predicted. I have been onto the Temple mount and there is no stones of that building left there. The 'Wailing Wall' was never a part of the Temple.

It seems that people will believe anything to avoid facing the end time events, as so clearly and comprehensively prophesied.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Look, Little Lamb, anyone can study history. I do, too! There is no Biblical law against the study of History. The problem comes in when Christians attempt to use secular history to prove fulfilled scripture as many did with the beasts, antichrist, or the city in Daniel and Revelation. Keep in mind, History doesn't prove scripture, scripture proves History. Biblical history! The scriptures are not in error, your understanding of them by trying to apply it to the physical building of Jerusalem is in BIG error. That can be very easily proven, IF we take Christ at his word when He says that not one stone will be left standing one upon another. For example, there were still many stones left standing one upon another after the Romans finished attacked the city, and anyone can prove that for themselves by buying an airplane ticket to Jerusalem today and seeing the ruins and walls and stones left standing one upon another. I am not kidding! Unless Jesus made a mistake in claiming they wouldn't be left that way, then obviously your understanding of what He truly was saying is deep flawed, Little Lamb.
Welcome back TS.......If you want to imply Jesus was a False Messiah to the 1st century Jews, go for it.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”

Mark 13:
1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 21:
5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee,
now yet it was hid from Thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,
and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Matthew 23:37

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
--------------------------------
Live by the stone, die by the stone...........

John 10:33
Answered Him, the Judeans saying, "About a good work not we are stoning Thee, but about blasphemy, and that Thou, being a man, are making thyself a god".
[Romans 2:23/Revelation 16:11,21]

Romans 2:23 Who in law are boasting through the transgression of the Law, the God thou are dishonoring
24 'For the name of the God because of ye, is being blasphemed in the nations' according as it has been written.'
[Psalm 74:10]

Revelation 16:11 And they blaspheme the God of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them, and not they reform out of the works of them

Reve 16 and Great Hail question
Reve 16 and Great Hail question

Revelation 8 Commentary- Plagued by Trumpets

IBSS - The Bible - Revelation

100 lb. Hailstones
Revelation 16:21 tells how huge hailstones fell from heaven weighing a talent which is about 100 pounds. Josephus describes 100 lb. white stones coming from Roman catapults down on the Jews in Jerusalem (Jewish Wars, Book 5.6.3).

https://www.kennethgentry.com/catalog/apocalypse.htm
The prophecy of the talent weight hailstones has found a similar fulfillment in the siege of Jerusalem, according to the preterist. Josephus states of the catapults of the Roman tenth legion: "the stones that were cast, were of the weight of a talent, and were carried two furlongs and further.... As for the Jews, they at first watched the coming of the stone, for it was a white color" (Wars 5:6:3). These stones not only had the weight required by John, but were the same color as hail.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
(Continued from Part One)

Look, Little Lamb, anyone can study history. I do, too! There is no Biblical law against the study of History. The problem comes in when Christians attempt to use secular history to prove fulfilled scripture as many did with the beasts, antichrist, or the city in Daniel and Revelation. Keep in mind, History doesn't prove scripture, scripture proves History. Biblical history! The scriptures are not in error, your understanding of them by trying to apply it to the physical building of Jerusalem is in BIG error. That can be very easily proven, IF we take Christ at his word when He says that not one stone will be left standing one upon another. For example, there were still many stones left standing one upon another after the Romans finished attacked the city, and anyone can prove that for themselves by buying an airplane ticket to Jerusalem today and seeing the ruins and walls and stones left standing one upon another. I am not kidding! Unless Jesus made a mistake in claiming they wouldn't be left that way, then obviously your understanding of what He truly was saying is deep flawed, Little Lamb.
Your Spiritual approach to Bible prophecy, is just as big an error as preterism.
Both are quite wrong. Prophesies that can be literally fulfilled; will be. And the 2nd Temple was destroyed as Jesus predicted. I have been onto the Temple mount and there is no stones of that building left there. The 'Wailing Wall' was never a part of the Temple.

It seems that people will believe anything to avoid facing the end time events, as so clearly and comprehensively prophesied.
You noticed that also?...............
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Your Spiritual approach to Bible prophecy, is just as big an error as preterism.

Try me. You have not even refuted the Scripture I have quoted exactly what Christ said about the city.

Prophesies that can be literally fulfilled; will be.

Oh yeah?

Let me know when there will be a magic show involving men spewing out frogs out of their mouths, Revelation 16. Or a woman floating in space about to give birth, Revelation 12. Or an animal the size of Godzilla coming out of the Mediterranean sea having seven heads and ten horns and another one out of the ground next to the Vatican in Rome with wool as a cloth. Therefore, Jerusalem as a great city in the book of Revelation will not be understood literally! :p

And the 2nd Temple was destroyed as Jesus predicted. I have been onto the Temple Mount and there is no stones of that building left there. The 'Wailing Wall' was never a part of the Temple.

Sigh! I do not think you have looked hard enough or in denial. The wailing wall is indeed part of the temple AND the city, like it or not.

It seems that people will believe anything to avoid facing the end time events, as so clearly and comprehensively prophesied.

We will find out when the last trump sounds. :)
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Welcome back TS.......If you want to imply Jesus was a False Messiah to the 1st century Jews, go for it.

Did I say that? No. You were not listening. Didn't they the ones who have rejected the Messiah? Read the Scripture again yourself before making a false accusation against me.


100 lb. Hailstones
Revelation 16:21 tells how huge hailstones fell from heaven weighing a talent which is about 100 pounds. Josephus describes 100 lb. white stones coming from Roman catapults down on the Jews in Jerusalem (Jewish Wars, Book 5.6.3).

Aha-ha! Just as I thought! You did not listen very well to what I warned about. You must find God's interpretation right in His Holy Work because it is HIS interpretation. Not Josephus! Have you ever study about hails in Scripture to find God's definition for it? Humm? Why did you go to the book of Josephus for interpretation? That is a big mistake on your part. That is why your doctrine isn't biblical.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Did I say that? No. You were not listening. Didn't they the ones who have rejected the Messiah? Read the Scripture again yourself before making a false accusation against me.

Aha-ha! Just as I thought! You did not listen very well to what I warned about. You must find God's interpretation right in His Holy Work because it is HIS interpretation. Not Josephus! Have you ever study about hails in Scripture to find God's definition for it? Humm? Why did you go to the book of Josephus for interpretation? That is a big mistake on your part. That is why your doctrine isn't biblical.
I trust Jesus and Josephus a lot more than I trust you and your interpretations........
Btw, welcome back...........;)
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I trust Jesus and Josephus a lot more than I trust you and your interpretations........
Btw, welcome back...........;)

Of course, this is what Preterists do. To trust in, get an interpretation from, built a doctrine upon, or defending someone who is not inspired by God or even Christian himself, is a foolish thing to do, frankly!
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Of course, this is what Preterists do. To trust in, get an interpretation from, built a doctrine upon, or defending someone who is not inspired by God or even Christian himself, is a foolish thing to do, frankly!
If you want to discuss Preterism, either start a thread on it or post on threads concerning that topic..........

https://www.google.com/search?q=pre...CM0KHUS_DXQQrQIoBDAAegQIBhAN&biw=1366&bih=626

Difference between amillennialism & preterism

Full or part preterism eschatology


https://www.preteristarchive.com/
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
If you want to discuss Preterism, either start a thread on it or post on threads concerning that topic..........

No, you shared your preterism view on this open forum. Discuss it here and answer my questions above.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
No, you shared your preterism view on this open forum. Discuss it here and answer my questions above.
And you shared you futurism view which very few agree with.........

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

TribulationSigns said:
The scriptures are not in error, your understanding of them by trying to apply it to the physical building of Jerusalem is in BIG error.
Your Spiritual approach to Bible prophecy, is just as big an error as preterism.
Both are quite wrong. Prophesies that can be literally fulfilled; will be. And the 2nd Temple was destroyed as Jesus predicted. I have been onto the Temple mount and there is no stones of that building left there. The 'Wailing Wall' was never a part of the Temple.

It seems that people will believe anything to avoid facing the end time events, as so clearly and comprehensively prophesied.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
And you shared you futurism view which very few agree with.........

You are using distraction tactics. I am still waiting for your position on Revelation 16 since you first mentioned it on this thread. Speak up.

And I am not worried about how many people agree with me here. This is not what I am here for. My posts are here as a public record for anyone to read and appreciate it, Lord willing. Therefore, I will continue to expose any false doctrines like yours here with Scripture.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
You are using distraction tactics. I am still waiting for your position on Revelation 16 since you first mentioned it on this thread. Speak up.
Is this this the post you are referring to?

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" post 27
================
Time for bed....1:45 am here....will respond more later today if I am able......
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,558
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,689.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Sigh! I do not think you have looked hard enough or in denial. The wailing wall is indeed part of the temple AND the city, like it or not.
The WW is part of the Temple Mount retaining wall. It is not a building.
What point are you making anyway?

Regarding literal prophecy fulfilment; I said those prophesies that can be, will be.
Your attempt to denigrate me by quoting allegories, is a rude and made from ignorance.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
TribulationSigns said:
Sigh! I do not think you have looked hard enough or in denial. The wailing wall is indeed part of the temple AND the city, like it or not.
The WW is part of the Temple Mount retaining wall. It is not a building.
What point are you making anyway?

Regarding literal prophecy fulfilment; I said those prophesies that can be, will be.
Your attempt to denigrate me by quoting allegories, is a rude and made from ignorance.
There are some that believe the western wall is actually part of Fort Antonia......
The Romans had to take out the walls and towers to get to the Temple........

New Evidence that "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia

During the last 50 years thousands of Christians and Jews have prayed at the remains of a Roman fort in the city of Jerusalem, which was built to house the thousands of Roman soldiers needed to police the city during the time of Christ.
The "Temple Mount" In Jerusalem is the Remains of Fort Antonia
Joseph Farah of World Net Daily introduces this film, which reveals the true location of the ancient Jewish temples in Jerusalem.

The area now known as the "Temple Mount" is the remains of Fort Antonia, based on the writings of Josephus.

Josephus said Herod the Great rebuilt Fort Antonia upon a gigantic rock about 75 feet tall.
The location of that rock is now under "The Dome of the Rock".


Most modern articles written about Fort Antonia are based upon a model constructed during 1973, that does not agree with the writings of Josephus.


From Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus, Book 5, Chapter 5, Section 8.

"8. Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it. Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a wall three cubits high; but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits. The inward parts had the largeness and form of a palace, it being parted into all kinds of rooms and other conveniences, such as courts, and places for bathing, and broad spaces for camps; insomuch that, by having all conveniences that cities wanted, it might seem to be composed of several cities, but by its magnificence it seemed a palace. And as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the southeast corner was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed; but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters, with their arms, on the Jewish festivals, in order to watch the people, that they might not there attempt to make any innovations; for the temple was a fortress that guarded the city, as was the tower of Antonia a guard to the temple; and in that tower were the guards of those three (14). There was also a peculiar fortress belonging to the upper city, which was Herod’s palace; but for the hill Bezetha, it was divided from the tower Antonia, as we have already told you; and as that hill on which the tower of Antonia stood was the highest of these three, so did it adjoin to the new city, and was the only place that hindered the sight of the temple on the north. And this shall suffice at present to have spoken about the city and the walls about it, because I have proposed to myself to make a more accurate description of it elsewhere.".

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.
There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.
Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome. After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and leveled with the ground. And thus, also was our LORD'S prediction, that her enemies should "lay her even with the ground," and "should not leave in her one stone upon another, " (Luke xix. 44.) most strikingly and fully accomplished ! -- This fact is confirmed by Eusebius, who asserts that he himself saw the city lying in ruins ; and Josephus introduces Eleazer as exclaiming "Where is our great city, which, it was believed, GOD inhabited ? It is altogether rooted and torn up from its foundations ; and the only monument of it that remains, is the camp of its destroyers pitched amidst its reliques !"
 
Upvote 0