Day of pentecost... when?

[ralliann]

Shavua is week in Hebrew thus Shavuot is weeks. However, the word is Sabbath in those verses. 7 Sabbaths would be 7 weeks, from Sabbath to Sabbath. If not the weekly Sabbath (as Rabbinic Judaism contends), where are the other 6 Sabbaths during the weeks? There are none other than the weekly Sabbaths. So the morrow of the Sabbath, is Sunday. The question would be is 15 nisan a "Sabbath" (as Yom Kippur is) or not...it is called a "mikrah".

Yes I see the Hebrew does support Sabbaths.

I also remember reading about how the Pharisees used the Greek to support their interpretation over that of the other sects. Ironic since they accuse the Sadducees of Hellenistic tendencies.
Le 23:11 και ανοισει το δραγμα εναντι κυριου δεκτον υμιν τη επαυριον της πρωτης ανοισει αυτο ο ιερευς

Le 23:15 και αριθμησετε υμεις απο της επαυριον των σαββατων απο της ημερας ης αν προσενεγκητε το δραγμα του επιθεματος επτα εβδομαδας ολοκληρους

Le 23:16 εως της επαυριον της εσχατης εβδομαδος αριθμησετε πεντηκοντα ημερας και προσοισετε θυσιαν νεαν τω κυριω

As for Nisan 15? I believe the Church kept with the priestly sect of the Sadducees. Therefore from Sunday to Sunday for the weeks.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

 

[ralliann]

Here is one:

Matt 5.43 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

The ”hate your enemy” was a mystery where it came from for centuries, until they found the charter of the Qumran community in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It was from that document.

Thank you. Not sure it is a warning, or a difference in the teachings of Christ as a result of his ministry?
Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

But we do see warnings of the two ruling sects of the time.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

Matthew 19:29

 

[Dave-W]

free from what? free to disobey God's commandments??

Some think God's commands did a radical 180 at the crucifixion. What God absolutely detested the day before, He now REQUIRES and what He required back then he detests now.

What ever happened to "I am God and I change NOT...?"

 

[AbbaLove]

Topic for ongoing discussion:
Having discussed this with others...and i hope to with more.. We may yet simply choose ..(for practicality and availability of people ) the weekend closest to the most likely day..

You mean like the Lord's Resurrection (First Fruits) being Omer Day 1 occurring on Sunday? ... TorahCalendar.com

If you (i.e. Christians) want to celebrate Shavuot on that day of the week in say 30 AD/CE (i.e. Christian belief that Nisan 14 occurred on Friday that year) you could then celebrate Pentecost in 50 days on May 28 (the 50th Day) which happened to fall on the first day (Yom Rishon) of that week in 30 AD/CE, according to NASA's calculations ... TorahCalendar.com

That Hebrew appointed Feast day was to celebrate the agricultural wheat harvest. The Jews didn't understand then and don't to this day that the wheat harvest was a metaphor for a greater kind of harvest that is still proceeding to this day since its beginning in, say 30 AD/CE.

Matthew 13:29-30 (the Words of Mashiach)
But He replied, ‘No; for in gathering the weeds you would uproot the wheat along with them. Let both of them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Collect the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into My barn.’”

John 4:35-36 (the Words of Mashiach)
Do you not say, ‘There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.

Amos 9:13
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When the plowman will overtake the reaper ...​

Shavuot, the wheat harvest, of the LORD's "elect" (both Jew and non-Jew), is possibly one of the most misunderstood of the Jewish Feasts by both Christendom and Rabbinic Judaism ...

Rethinking 'the Harvest' (One of the Bible's Most Misunderstood Metaphors) - chasingalion.com
​

 

[AbbaLove]

According to NASA's calculations Omer Day 50 (Shavuot), in 30 AD/CE, occurred on the first day of the week in the 3rd month of Sivan (Gregorian calendar of May 28th) ... TorahCalendar.com

 

[Dave-W]

According to NASA's calculations

What, they know what kind of cloud cover there was 15 days earlier? or how green the barley crop was?

Remember, the first of the month (Nisan/Abib) is from actually seeing the first sliver of the New Moon; and whether that month is Abib or Adar 2 is determined by how green the barley sprouts were.

 

[AbbaLove]

What, they know what kind of cloud cover there was 15 days earlier? or how green the barley crop was?

Remember, the first of the month (Nisan/Abib) is from actually seeing the first sliver of the New Moon; and whether that month is Abib or Adar 2 is determined by how green the barley sprouts were.

Exactly the Conundrum!​

Just one reason why even Messianic Judaism doesn't agree on the actual year (was it: 27, 28, 29, or 30 AD/CE or none of the above). So it would seem that Christendom would stick with 30 AD/CE with their belief that Nisan 14 occurred on the 6th Day of the week (Good Friday), with Omer Day 1 then occurring on "First Fruits" being the 1st Day of the Week and Omer Day 5O (Pentecost) then occurring on the 1st day of the week (Gregorian day being May 28, Sunday, 30 AD/CE) taking into account the number of days in Nisan, Iyar and Sivan.

What seems to be a mystery is that no one organization or person has taken credit for the Torah Creation Calendar website. When the site was first launched "they" (whoever "they" are) had figured that the current Hebrew year was 5,999. Since then "they" no longer predict the actual Hebrew year only figuring that the current Hebrew year (5779) is actually lagging as much as 200 years (and that is purely speculative) behind the actual Hebrew year which "they" estimate to be much closer to 6000.

"They" base this on "their" belief that "Ripening Barley Does Not Determine the Hebrew Year" (scroll to bottom of link) ...​

"Elohim has clearly declared that the sun and the moon are to determine both days, years, and appointed times which occur at very specific times of the lunar month. So why do some people critically observe the developmental stage of barley at the end of Month 12 in attempting to determine when a Hebrew Year begins? Although many reasons will be given by those engaging in this practice, the ultimate truth is that they do not believe Elohim on this issue. Elohim said that the sun and and the moon were created to determine years." ... TorahCalendar.com​

In case it hasn't already been pointed out ... Israel currently celebrates the giving of the Torah on the holiday of Shavuot as associated with the wheat harvest in the Torah; whereas Christians celebrate the LORD's giving (immersing) of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.
​

 

[Erik Nelson]

https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/liberation-in-passover/

Pentecost alludes to the giving of the Law to Moses atop Sinai

 

[Alithis]

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