David & Bath-sheba

[rrobsr]

God hand picked David to be king over Israel. He was the top leader over all of Israel (1 Samuel 1).

He used that position to commit murder in the first degree. He had Bath-sheba’s husband, Uriah, killed so he could have Bath-sheba all to himself. That is outlined in 2 Samuel chapter 11. A law school could use this chapter as an example of murder in the first degree. Conspiracy also and probably a few other niceties.

God wasn’t happy about David’s behaviour (2 Sam 11:27) so he had a talk with him. He told David that things wouldn’t be going very well for him and Israel from now on. But David immediately repented and so God completely forgave him (2 Sam 12). In fact, David ended up in the Hebrew’s chapter 11 “believers hall of fame” (Heb 11:32).

So the top leader of all Israel murders an innocent man. David repented. God forgave him.

The question: what would present day Christendom do to a man like David?

 

[archer75]

What is present-day Christendom?

 

[rrobsr]

What is present-day Christendom?

Merriam Webster:

Christendom​

1. christianity
   
2. the part of the world in which Christianity prevails

Or just make it simple. What would you do?
Me? I'm not sure I would have been as gracious as God. Probably not. Isn't it a good thing I'm not God? We'd all be in trouble!

 

[Bumble Bee]

I'm honestly not sure if I would be able to trust him again. I would probably be afraid of him after that too.

 

[rrobsr]

I'm honestly not sure if I would be able to trust him again. I would probably be afraid of him after that too.

I'm sure a lot of good Christians, me included, share your sentiment. This might help explain things:

1Sam 16:7,

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
​

How could anybody not love our heavenly father once they've heard? No end to his mercy and grace. Can't wait to meet the Lord in the air so I will finally see how he really is.

 

[Hank77]

I would accept that he had repented, that is between him and God. However, I would expect not to see the same behavior continue.

Remember David was not a bad man, he was God's Beloved, he didn't resist temptation. Because of this he found himself in a very bad situation. Instead of coming clean with Uriah and God, he chose to commit and even worse sin, taking an innocent life.
So in my view, God treated David with understanding and mercy because this wasn't something that David routinely did and he didn't
make a habit of disobeying God.

Besides that, King David, had to have an heir, the Messiah, Jesus.

 

[rrobsr]

Then there is Paul. He wasn't a very nice guy at first either. His number one mission in life was rounding up Christians, both men and women, and bring them back to face lions in the arena and such. Not a good way to die. Horrific actually. He was absolutely fanatic about it too.

But surprise, surprise, God forgave him also.

 

[rrobsr]

I would accept that he had repented, that is between him and God. However, I would expect not to see the same behavior continue.

Remember David was not a bad man, he was God's Beloved, he didn't resist temptation. Because of this he found himself in a very bad situation. Instead of coming clean with Uriah and God, he chose to commit and even worse sin, taking an innocent life.
So in my view, God treated David with understanding and mercy because this wasn't something that David routinely did and he didn't
make a habit of disobeying God.

Besides that, King David, had to have an heir, the Messiah, Jesus.

Yeah. We did kinda need David to get Jesus. Otherwise, we'd almost certainly still be waiting for the first coming instead of the second one.

 

[benelchi]

God hand picked David to be king over Israel. He was the top leader over all of Israel (1 Samuel 1).

He used that position to commit murder in the first degree. He had Bath-sheba’s husband, Uriah, killed so he could have Bath-sheba all to himself. That is outlined in 2 Samuel chapter 11. A law school could use this chapter as an example of murder in the first degree. Conspiracy also and probably a few other niceties.

God wasn’t happy about David’s behaviour (2 Sam 11:27) so he had a talk with him. He told David that things wouldn’t be going very well for him and Israel from now on. But David immediately repented and so God completely forgave him (2 Sam 12). In fact, David ended up in the Hebrew’s chapter 11 “believers hall of fame” (Heb 11:32).

So the top leader of all Israel murders an innocent man. David repented. God forgave him.

The question: what would present day Christendom do to a man like David?

Christendom today often wants to either perpetually condemn those who have demonstrated repentance, or rescue the those who only voiced repentance from any consequences of their sin, even when their life has not demonstrated repentance. Neither response is biblical!

 

[Hank77]

Then there is Paul. He wasn't a very nice guy at first either. His number one mission in life was rounding up Christians, both men and women, and bring them back to face lions in the arena and such. Not a good way to die. Horrific actually. He was absolutely fanatic about it too.

But surprise, surprise, God forgave him also.

Very good point.
Why was Paul doing that? Because he thought he was doing God's will. He saw followers of Jesus as heretical Jews who were disobeying their God, the God of their fathers, Abe, Issac, and Jacob.
He was a tough case, he wouldn't believe until God directly made him listen. I think with Paul it was because God intended him to go to the Gentiles, now that was radical.
So was it something about Paul's character that made him the perfect one to do this job for God? I think so. Paul was like a pit bull, once he got a hold of God's will nothing could make him let go.

EDIT: not to now

 

[rrobsr]

Very good point.
Why was Paul doing that? Because he thought he was doing God's will. He saw followers of Jesus as heretical Jews who were disobeying their God, the God of their fathers, Abe, Issac, and Jacob.
He was a tough case, he wouldn't believe until God directly made him listen. I think with Paul it was because God intended him to go to the Gentiles, not that was radical.
So was it something about Paul's character that made him the perfect one to do this job for God? I think so. Paul was like a pit bull, once he got a hold of God's will nothing could make him let go.

He thought is was doing God's will! Excellent observation.

How easily people can be misled. And Paul was supposedly an "expert" in all the things of God. He called himself, "a Hebrew of the Hebrews" (Phil 3:5) and he probably was. I guess God saw something different in him than I would have. Good thing too! It's kinda nice to have the seven church epistles Paul wrote.

 

[archer75]

Merriam Webster:

Christendom​

1. christianity
   
2. the part of the world in which Christianity prevails

Or just make it simple. What would you do?
Me? I'm not sure I would have been as gracious as God. Probably not. Isn't it a good thing I'm not God? We'd all be in trouble!

I don't think the part of the world in which Christianity prevails would have a unanimous response.

But in all likelihood, if he was wealthy, which he almost certainly would be in a position of power like that, he'd use the "haven't I suffered enough?" defense in some form and his hard-core supporters would stick with him.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't think the part of the world in which Christianity prevails would have a unanimous response.

I agree. Some would condemn him from the start; while some may hail him as a hero. (after all, he got rid of a pesky foreigner)

Uriah was a Hittite, not a Jew. As such, he was not used to doing things the way Jews did them. Any self respecting Jew would understand that if you had the opportunity, you go and satisfy your wife. But the warrior clan of Hittites let nothing distract them from battle. (like Klingons) David perhaps thought that Uriah had lived in Israel long enough to have assimilated. That meant he would go into his wife and have relations with her, and when she turned up pregnant no one would the wiser. But he had not. The battle was raging and he could not distract himself from that. By the time the spring wars would have ended, the Jewish girl Bathsheba (lit: seventh daughter) would have been showing her pregnancy. Uriah would have charged her publically with adultery and had her stoned to death, along with David's child. Maybe even David himself.

It could well be argued that offing Uriah was actually an act of self defense; saving himself, his child and Bathsheba from death.

 

[brinny]

What i find intriguing about David, is that yes, he sinned abominably. Yet God called him the "apple of His eye" and a "man after His own heart".

That alone, gives me pause to ponder and study why that is.

Great thread by the way.

 

[Hank77]

I agree. Some would condemn him from the start; while some may hail him as a hero. (after all, he got rid of a pesky foreigner)

Here's a question for you, Dave. Was Bathsheba a Hebrew woman or a Gentile?

 

[Dave-W]

Here's a question for you, Dave. Was Bathsheba a Hebrew woman or a Gentile?

Her name would tend to say she was Jewish. It means "Seventh Daughter" in Hebrew. Her being on the roof taking a ritual bath would give additional support for that.

Husbands and wives were commanded to not have sex during her menstrual period, for at least 7 days, after which she was to ritually immerse herself (tevilah) and then the couple could resume sexual activity. This was (and still is) traditionally done in the nude. From the description, that is exactly what she was doing while the king was watching.

 

[Sammy-San]

I agree. Some would condemn him from the start; while some may hail him as a hero. (after all, he got rid of a pesky foreigner)

Uriah was a Hittite, not a Jew. As such, he was not used to doing things the way Jews did them. Any self respecting Jew would understand that if you had the opportunity, you go and satisfy your wife. But the warrior clan of Hittites let nothing distract them from battle. (like Klingons) David perhaps thought that Uriah had lived in Israel long enough to have assimilated. That meant he would go into his wife and have relations with her, and when she turned up pregnant no one would the wiser. But he had not. The battle was raging and he could not distract himself from that. By the time the spring wars would have ended, the Jewish girl Bathsheba (lit: seventh daughter) would have been showing her pregnancy. Uriah would have charged her publically with adultery and had her stoned to death, along with David's child. Maybe even David himself.

It could well be argued that offing Uriah was actually an act of self defense; saving himself, his child and Bathsheba from death.

The fact that David used his power as king to seduce her wasn't a way to save her life? He got her into that awful situation of she would be killed no what she does, there was no way for him to get her out of it?

 

[Dave-W]

He would stone her for choosing life over being faithful?

Absolutely.

She would've died if she didn't sleep with the king, that is a terrible situation.

We do not know how strong-armed David was being with her.
Maybe she would have died and maybe not.

But I agree - she was in a very bad place.

 

[Sammy-San]

Absolutely.

We do not know how strong-armed David was being with her.
Maybe she would have died and maybe not.

But I agree - she was in a very bad place.

Is there bibical support Uriah was killed because David was scared of the death penalty? he was the King. It seems speculation.

 

[Dave-W]

It seems speculation.

2 Sam 12.13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt fora]" the Lord, the son born to you will die.”