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Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by Phoebe Ann, Sep 11, 2019.

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  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is another story, and another thread. However, for those who can not, for whatever reason, be baptized, Jesus' baptism covers them. Extra exclamation points is extra emphasis---capital, very, large letters, and red, I was told, is screaming.
     
  2. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    You can believe what you wish as to how a person is saved without having received the proper ordinances given to us by Jesus. We happen to believe that work is done by proxy through our church members and their diligent work to help Jesus in this noble work.
     
  3. BigDaddy4

    BigDaddy4 Movin' on...

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    It's funny how Jesus never mentioned doing this work while he was here 2000 years ago. Not even to those who died prior to his coming who would have been under the OT law. As if Jesus needed any "help" to save someone... :doh:
     
  4. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    He must have taught it to his apostles. see
    1 Peter 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

    Part of the gospel is being baptized. Tell me how a spirit it baptized with full water immersion?

    Besides if you are looking for what Jesus never mentions while he was here 2000 years ago, one word comes to mind. "grace".
     
  5. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Is the Bible God's word or someone else's?

    2 Timothy 3
    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


    BIBLE VERSES ABOUT GRACE:

    But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
    Acts 20:24 - KJV

    But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
    2 Peter 3:18 - KJV

    The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
    Philippians 4:23 - KJV

    And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    2 Corinthians 12:9 - KJV

    For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
    Romans 12:3 - KJV

    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    Romans 6:1-2 - KJV

    Nevertheless for thy great mercies' sake thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them; for thou art a gracious and merciful God.
    Nehemiah 9:31 - KJV

    Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
    2 Timothy 2:1 - KJV

    And rend your heart,
    and not your garments,
    and turn unto the Lord your God:
    for he is gracious and merciful,
    slow to anger, and of great kindness,
    and repenteth him of the evil.
    Joel 2:13

    The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
    2 Corinthians 13:14

    Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Romans 1:7b

    Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
    1 Peter 3:7 - KJV

    I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    Galatians 2:21 - KJV
     
  6. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    In the end, it will not be what JS, or anyone else thinks brings salvation, but what God, through His word tells us.
     
  7. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    (New Testament | John 14:24)

    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
     
  8. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You forgot and keeps all your ordinances.
     
  9. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    What is that supposed to mean?
     
  10. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying that because you have some scriptures on grace, that they trump
    2 Timothy 3:16, or that we should rip 2 Timothy 3:16 out of the bible?

    And notice that none of the grace scriptures came from Jesus? That is interesting.

    The gospel clearly teaches that we believe, we have faith, and because of that faith we follow Jesus and do the things that Jesus did, and if we do these things, Jesus will give us his grace, which is absolutely needed to have eternal life with him.

    Do here is to being perfect and thoroughly furnished in all good works, and more importantly here is to the grace of Jesus, unto an exalted man, perfect and full of the grace of Jesus.
     
  11. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    God's word (from the bible only) says clearly that we must believe and have faith and follow Jesus and do the things that Jesus did. If you do not believe this simple phrase, then you are not a Christian.
     
  12. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    You can't be saved unless you keep all your ordinances, you certainly can not obtain "exaltation" without them.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    The Father, Son and Holy Spirit of the bible---the Father that has no grandfather or wife, the One and only Son, The Holy Spirit that is everywhere at the same time and doesn't require a burning bosom.
     
  14. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    And that is why there is baptism for the dead.
     
  15. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    All scripture in the Bible comes from God. Who do you think wrote it?

    2 Timothy 3
    15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All
    scripture is given by inspiration of God,
    and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Philippians 2
    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    2 Corinthians 5
    16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him nomore. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Isaiah 40
    8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
     
  16. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    The following is a false teaching taught by a false prophet:

    Doctrine and Covenants 128
    18 I might have rendered a plainer translation to this, but it is sufficiently plain to suit my purpose as it stands. It is sufficient to know, in this case, that the earth will be smitten with a curse unless there is a welding link of some kind or other between the fathers and the children, upon some subject or other—and behold what is that subject? It is the baptism for the dead. For we without them cannot be made perfect; neither can they without us be made perfect....

    Joseph Smith wrote the D&C as if it came from Jesus. Why would Jesus need to render a plainer translation? What was He translating?
     
  17. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Jesus gives us grace so that we can follow Him. We love Him because He first loved us.

    Philippians 2
    13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
     
  18. He is the way

    He is the way Well-Known Member

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    Joseph Smith was talking about the revelations he had received form God concerning baptism for the dead. He was talking about a plainer translation of the revelations he received.
     
  19. Peter1000

    Peter1000 Well-Known Member

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    It is not false. This was an epistle from JS to the church. It is the words of JS. This was not a direct revelation from Jesus Christ.

    JS was saying that his translation of the last chapter of Malachi, verses 5th and 6th was plain enough for his needs, but could have been plainer.

    He did not tell us what he was translating from, so any guesswork on yours or my part would be nothing more than, well, guesswork. Jesus was not rendering a translation of anything.

    You are digging a rabbit hole.
     
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    If they could have been plainer, why didn't he make them so? What was there to translate? Malachi had been translated hundreds of years ago. There is nothing there about baptism for the dead---not one single thing.
    Something so very vital and God never mentions it to anyone until the very last chapter of the OY and then doesn't say it flat out clearly enough for anyone to understand?! We are left to assume that God doesn't care if we are lost, or is very careless with our salvation. This is about us not being able to be made prefect without the dead--or they without our inventing baptisms and God forgets to mention it? Get real. It's no rabbit hole that Phoebe Ann went on, but there is one slimly little fox.
     
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