Dating The New Covenant

Did the New Covenant begin

  • When Jesus died on the cross, and was resurrected

    Votes: 8 53.3%
  • When Jesus began his ministry

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neither

    Votes: 7 46.7%

  • Total voters
    15

Uber Genius

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Of course not. I'm finally understanding him. Read his posts here before accusing me of anything. You misrepresent me. It is he that is saying the New Covenant is future. If he really believes that, it explains why he keeps the Old Covenant Sabbath, etc. I just wondered if ALL Messianics believe the New Covenant is future.
ken Rank is an Evangelical. He is talking about the progressive transformation of Christians who the scripture tell to work out their salvation in fear and trembling. That salvation is not the same as sanctification, that transitioning from Old to New is not a one-act play. But there is no doubt we are in the New Covenant. So read some more and see if you can accurately represent the comments you misrepresented in your earlier post.
 
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Uber Genius

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There is no "but" in John 19:30.


.
So this certainly is unclear.

Is his main task finished?
Is his time on earth in a human as oppossed to a resurrection body finished?
Is the transition from the whole world lying in the power of the evil one finished?
So what we need is not a rhetorical device that makes the matter unclear but evidence and data. Please examine the context.

The context of 30 was 28!

Said to fulfill the scriptures...

So we see the context was actual fulfilling all the prophecies written about him.

So the 19:30 passage just reflects Jesus finishing a long list of prophecies written about him that he was aware of and intending to fulfill.
 
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joshua 1 9

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The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?
The new covenant began 50 days later when Peter was preaching in the upper room on the day of Pentecostal. Same story with the old covenant. This was given 50 days after the Hebrew children left Egypt at Mount Sinai. God also had a covenant with Abraham.

Jesus said: "It is finished" even though He still had not taken the Keys away from Satan. The captives were set free on the third day. Just as we are waiting for the third day to be set free.
 
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PROPHECYKID

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I don't understand, sorry. Christ died, was resurrected,
And the disciples ate with him, confirming his resurrection. It was a 40 day process, if that is what you mean by confirmation
He gets that from this verse.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The Majority of Christians see verse 27 to be referring to the Antichrist. So in this 70 week (490 year) prophecy, they insert a large gap of time between the 69th week and the 70th week or during the 70th week based on who you ask but there is absolutely no indication in scripture to insert a gap. Its a 490 year prophecy, if you insert a time gap then the prophecy is no longer 70 weeks.

So this prophecy began in 457BC and ended in 34AD with the stoning of Steven. The Messiah began his ministry in 27AD which is the beginning of the 70th week. 483 years after 457BC according to the prophecy. The Messiah was cut of in the middle of the 70th week, 3 1/2 years after his ministry, the veil in the temple was ripped in two signifying the end of the system of early sacrifices (even though the jews continued to so it in vain for a period of time) and Stephen died a Christ Like Death after reviewing the entire history of Israel and giving the Jewish leaders a final chance to accept Jesus. They rejected and killed him. Then immediately after, God convicts Paul and sends him to the Gentiles.
 
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Gup20

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The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?
The new covenant was put into full effect at the cross, but it was first established with Abraham.

[Gen 17:4, 7 NASB] 4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a multitude of nations. ... 7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.

[Gal 3:6-9, 15-18 NASB] 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, [saying,] "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. ... 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is [only] a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as [referring] to many, but [rather] to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

[Gal 4:22-31 NASB] 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these [women] are two covenants: one [proceeding] from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written, "REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR; BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR; FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND." 28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him [who was born] according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN." 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;
9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
10 “FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”
13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.


[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.​

We see very clearly then, that the promise (covenant) to Abraham was the covenant for being made righteous through faith. This was the covenant fulfilled by Jesus at the cross, not created at the cross.

[Rom 8:15-17 NASB] 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him] so that we may also be glorified with [Him.]​

[Isa 54:1 NASB] 1 "Shout for joy, O barren one, you who have borne no [child;] Break forth into joyful shouting and cry aloud, you who have not travailed; For the sons of the desolate one [will be] more numerous Than the sons of the married woman," says the LORD.​

The adopted children of Abraham (and therefore inheritors of the righteousn given to Abraham for his faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ) will be more numerous than the physical descendants. Remember, the covenant to Abraham was for him to be the father of MANY nations, not just the one nation. The everlasting covenant in Genesis 17:7 was to those descendants from many nations - the descendants who were of the same faith in the gospel as Abraham.
 
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ewq1938

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Very insightful Gup. So actually the new covenant is older than the old covenant.

Except that is obviously wrong. The NC replaced the OC so it isn't older than the first covenant and did not begin with Abraham..

Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
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Gup20

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Except that is obviously wrong. The NC replaced the OC so it isn't older than the first covenant and did not begin with Abraham..

Heb_8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb_8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Galatians 3:15-18 (NASB) Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.​

It’s possible Hebrews was talking about when the covenants came into effect (the Law at the time of Moses, and faith at the death & resurrection of Christ) rather than when they were created.... additionally it could be referring to the as pronouns rather than specifying sequence.

Hebrews 8:8 (NASB) For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH;​

According to Galatians 3:17, the covenant of faith existed 430 years prior to the law. That covenant was ratified in Genesis 15, and once ratified it cannot have conditions added. That means the covenant of faith is truly apart from the law. The law then bears witness to the covenant of faith, but the covenant of faith does not bear witness to the law.

Luke 24:44 (NASB)
Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalm must be fulfilled."

Romans 3:21 (NASB)
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Replacement theology has one thing wrong - the New Covenant didn’t replace the old... it pre-dated it by 430 years.

Galatians 3:6-9 (NASB) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
 
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