Dating The New Covenant

[A71]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

 

[Ken Rank]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

I would tend to disagree. I think the work was done that was needed to put it all into effect, and I think the process of putting it into effect has also begun, but that the final work (which is the bulk of the work) hasn't been done yet and won't be until he returns. It says in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 that the the law will be written in the heart as the mark of the NC and when that work is done, there will no longer be a need to teach for all will know the Lord. Well, not all know the Lord and there is still a need to teach. Throw in Paul calling the giving of the Holy Spirit as a down payment (1 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5) then we know even he was seeing a day when more was to come. The Holy Spirit was given as an earnest toward that day.

 

[A71]

So are you saying that we are still under the old covenant?

I would tend to disagree. I think the work was done that was needed to put it all into effect, and I think the process of putting it into effect has also begun, but that the final work (which is the bulk of the work) hasn't been done yet and won't be until he returns. It says in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 that the the law will be written in the heart as the mark of the NC and when that work is done, there will no longer be a need to teach for all will know the Lord. Well, not all know the Lord and there is still a need to teach. Throw in Paul calling the giving of the Holy Spirit as a down payment (1 Cor. 1:22 and 5:5) then we know even he was seeing a day when more was to come. The Holy Spirit was given as an earnest toward that day.

 

[RDKirk]

Hebrews 8 appears to indicate that there was a transition period in which the New Covenant was in force (as described by the writer of Hebrews, that began at the death of Christ) and the Old Testament became fully obsolete (which I think occurred when the temple was destroyed in 70AD).

 

[Barney2.0]

I think it was after Christ died and was resurrected, not when he began his ministry, as he said I will fulfill the law not I have fulfilled the law during his ministry.

 

[Ken Rank]

So are you saying that we are still under the old covenant?

No, but I don't see the old and new as you do. All I am saying is that which was on stone vanishes in favor of that which is on the heart. The process has begun, we are new creatures... but the work is not complete and won't be until he returns. At that time his people will be united, and we will all be perfected, changed, made incorruptible.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No, but I don't see the old and new as you do. All I am saying is that which was on stone vanishes in favor of that which is on the heart. The process has begun, we are new creatures... but the work is not complete and won't be until he returns. At that time his people will be united, and we will all be perfected, changed, made incorruptible.

Your take explains a lot on why you cling to the Old Covenant. Are all Messianics taught that the New Covenant is future?

 

[Uber Genius]

Your take explains a lot on why you cling to the Old Covenant. Are all Messianics taught that the New Covenant is future?

Strange straw character action of OPs comment. Were you trying to misreprent him in order to float your sweeping generalization? Do you realize those are fallacious?

Even in the first century logic had been around for three centuries.

From a Biblical perspective the scriptures represent a process rather than a minute or second transition as your comments suggest.

Feel free to engage the scriptures and arguments Ken provides in order to avoid continuing to attack strawmen.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Strange straw character action of OPs comment. Were you trying to misreprent him in order to float your sweeping generalization? Do you realize those are fallacious?

Of course not. I'm finally understanding him. Read his posts here before accusing me of anything. You misrepresent me. It is he that is saying the New Covenant is future. If he really believes that, it explains why he keeps the Old Covenant Sabbath, etc. I just wondered if ALL Messianics believe the New Covenant is future.

 

[Uber Genius]

Of course not. I'm finally understanding him. Read his posts here before accusing me of anything. You misrepresent me. It is he that is saying the New Covenant is future. If he really believes that, it explains why he keeps the Old Covenant Sabbath, etc. I just wondered if ALL Messianics believe the New Covenant is future.

You are misrepresent his position.

You are using two fallacies

1 - logical extension

Where does he say he keeps the sabbath or that New Covenant is future?

Or represent that he "clings to the Old Covenant"

You can't produce that data because you created it!

Strawman

2 - "Messianics," is not a meaningful term as it holds no theological distinctions. My Jewish friends that reject Jesus as a first-century charlatan are nevertheless messianic, in that their hope is in the future messiah.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You are misrepresent his position.

You are using two fallacies

1 - logical extension

Where does he say he keeps the sabbath or that New Covenant is future?

Or represent that he "clings to the Old Covenant"

You can't produce that data because you created it!

Strawman

2 - "Messianics," is not a meaningful term as it holds no theological distinctions. My Jewish friends that reject Jesus as a first-century charlatan are nevertheless messianic, in that their hope is in the future messiah.

You are just trying to pick a fight. That is not of the Spirit, and I am putting you on ignore.

 

[Uber Genius]

You are just trying to pick a fight. That is not of the Spirit, and I am putting you on ignore.

Unfortunately, you got caught lying about someone in order to pick a fight!

I won't ignore you, I will engage in exposing propaganda and misrepresentations. But this is not the Spirit of Christ that influences you to engage this way. You could have faced your misrepresentations head on and apologized, instead you attempt to blame-shift.

Old and New Covenants are part and parcel with the ushering in of the Kingdom of God. Ken is referring to the "already but not yet," aspect of the Kingdom of God. It is the best explanation of the data we are given in the gospels about Jesus' teach on same. Had you the slightest interest in understanding Ken's OP we would not have this disgraceful propaganda.

 

[EvangAlived]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree.

The 'new' covenant is actually the eternal and everlasting covenant between the Father and the Son, witnessed by the Holy Ghost.

It is “the everlasting covenant” or "the covenant of life and peace", or the counsel of peace, ratified by the blood of the Son of God Himself and by the Father in Heaven, see Psalms 89:3,28,34, 105:8; Isaiah 13:12, 42:6; Malachi 2:5 [Jesus is the True Levi, meaning attached unto His Father], 3:1; John 19:30 [he finished laying the foundation, the words were unto His Father], John 17:24 [the agreement in eternity past was made, Jesus kept His word, performed His vows, and now the promise from the Father was to be fulfilled]; John 3:16; John 19:28; Hebrews 13:20; Revelation 13:8; Psalms 40:7-8; Hebrews 10:7-9; Psalms 116:14-18; Ezekiel 38:23; John 17:19; John 10:18; 8:28; Psalms 110:4; Zechariah 6:13, etc., etc

It was 'ratified' by the blood of Christ Jesus, who fulfilled His vows, His side of the covenant.

Psa_116:14 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people.
Psa_116:18 I will pay my vows unto the LORD now in the presence of all his people,

It was 'ratified' by the Father after Christ Jesus ascended the first time, and accepted the Selfless Sacrifice of the Son.

Psa_61:5 For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.

 

[Christian Gedge]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

Not exactly. The covenant took seven years to confirm, so it was at the end of that confirmation process that we can say the new covenant was fully in effect.

The beginning of that confirmation was Jesus' baptism when he was revealed. Then for three years he confirmed the covenant through signs and wonders.

In the midst of the 'week' he was offered as a sacrifice for sins, and that is certainly the high point. That is why we assume the New Covenant began when He sacrificed his blood.

However, a vital part of the covenant included the outpouring of the Spirit, and this occurred 50 days after the Cross on the Jewish believers. After that came the 'Gentile Pentecost' in Acts chapter 10. That occurred about 3.5 years after the Cross.

So if we are to answer your question precisely, the the New Covenant began in its fullness after the Jews had been given their time, and when the Gentiles were then invited into the kingdom.

 

[A71]

I don't understand, sorry. Christ died, was resurrected,
And the disciples ate with him, confirming his resurrection. It was a 40 day process, if that is what you mean by confirmation

Not exactly. The covenant took seven years to confirm, so it was at the end of that confirmation process that we can say the new covenant was fully in effect.

The beginning of that confirmation was Jesus' baptism when he was revealed. Then for three years he confirmed the covenant through signs and wonders.

In the midst of the 'week' he was offered as a sacrifice for sins, and that is certainly the high point. That is why we assume the New Covenant began when He sacrificed his blood.

However, a vital part of the covenant included the outpouring of the Spirit, and this occurred 50 days after the Cross on the Jewish believers. After that came the 'Gentile Pentecost' in Acts chapter 10. That occurred about 3.5 years after the Cross.

So if we are to answer your question precisely, the the New Covenant began in its fullness after the Jews had been given their time, and when the Gentiles were then invited into the kingdom.

 

[Jonaitis]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

I've seen it to be at Pentecost, when Christ ascended to the Father's right hand, to intercede for us with the blood of this Covenant and the sending of the Holy Spirit to the NT Church, as the inauguration of the New Covenant.

 

[BABerean2]

Heb_9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

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[SkyWriting]

The new covenant began when Christ sacrificed his blood at Calvary.

Agree or disagree?

After His death, yes.

 

[SkyWriting]

No, but I don't see the old and new as you do. All I am saying is that which was on stone vanishes in favor of that which is on the heart. The process has begun, we are new creatures... but the work is not complete and won't be until he returns. At that time his people will be united, and we will all be perfected, changed, made incorruptible.

Further study helps.

What Does the Bible Say About The New Covenant?

 

[BABerean2]

All time is measured before the cross, and after the cross.

The New Covenant: Bob George

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