Dating is a sin- just be friends till your married, no need to complicate...

[createdtoworship]

I haven't responded to this thread because I went ahead and did just this.

The answer I received is that dating is not a sin as it is not in the Bible as sin. Furthermore, it was a sin for you as it caused to have pre-marital sex, but it would be a sin for anyone that had pre-marital sex. For others who haven'y engaged in pre-marital sex, feeling up, etc... it is not a sin.

You cannot take what you did, which was s in, and make it a blanket ban on dating.

This is the answer I received while praying.

If God desires for some reason to leave you out of the loop, or if God for example believes you are living in sin (have alteriour motives), he won't answer prayer. Some times we ask things to consume it upon our lust (for example praying for dating so you can make out with a girl before marriage), james 4:3 says that God won't answer prayer for those reasons. Now there is of course some reason God can tell you it's not sin, and also tell me it is sin. That is if you redefine what dating is and remove the physical aspect of dating (which is not what dating currently is). so there are a few reasons why God answered your prayer the way He did. But you are on the right track. Keep praying. Here is a prayer guide to help....

 

[Archivist]

If God desires for some reason to leave you out of the loop, or if God for example believes you are living in sin (have alteriour motives), he won't answer prayer. Some times we ask things to consume it upon our lust (for example praying for dating so you can make out with a girl before marriage), james 4:3 says that God won't answer prayer for those reasons. Now there is of course some reason God can tell you it's not sin, and also tell me it is sin. That is if you redefine what dating is and remove the physical aspect of dating (which is not what dating currently is). so there are a few reasons why God answered your prayer the way He did. But you are on the right track. Keep praying. Here is a prayer guide to help....
View attachment 273945

Or you could just be misinterpreting what God is telling you.

Awaiting an explanation of your misstatement of what I wrote along with evidence that supports your claim that dating is a sin.

 

[Isilwen]

If God desires for some reason to leave you out of the loop, or if God for example believes you are living in sin (have alteriour motives), he won't answer prayer. Some times we ask things to consume it upon our lust (for example praying for dating so you can make out with a girl before marriage), james 4:3 says that God won't answer prayer for those reasons. Now there is of course some reason God can tell you it's not sin, and also tell me it is sin. That is if you redefine what dating is and remove the physical aspect of dating (which is not what dating currently is). so there are a few reasons why God answered your prayer the way He did. But you are on the right track. Keep praying. Here is a prayer guide to help....
View attachment 273945

You completely missed what I replied with and are still believing that what you are saying is correct.

 

[createdtoworship]

Or you could just be misinterpreting what God is telling you.

Awaiting an explanation of your misstatement of what I wrote along with evidence that supports your claim that dating is a sin.

I apologize, please use the quotation feature of christian forums and quote the posts you wish for me to address, I have about three debates going on I don't have time to scan threads for posts I may or may not have adressed. Thank you for your patience.

 

[createdtoworship]

I haven't responded to this thread because I went ahead and did just this.

The answer I received is that dating is not a sin as it is not in the Bible as sin. Furthermore, it was a sin for you as it caused to have pre-marital sex, but it would be a sin for anyone that had pre-marital sex. For others who haven'y engaged in pre-marital sex, feeling up, etc... it is not a sin.

You cannot take what you did, which was s in, and make it a blanket ban on dating.

This is the answer I received while praying.

Maybe this will adress your post more sufficiently, I already adressed why I believe their was a variance in how our prayers were answered or were not answered. As far as the allegations of me having pre marital sex, to me that is no different than kissing, or rubbing a girls thigh, or stroking her inappropriately. See any physical interaction with another sister is prohibited in 1 Tim 5, as I have been debating the last few pages. See you would not french kiss your sister, and you would not grab your mothers thigh, or buttocks inappropriately. And neither should you do so to your 'sisters in the Lord.' We are to treat them in 'all purity' it says. So I am a prime example of why dating does not work, I guess you can also label me as a bad example of dating, if you so wish. But no one has given a good example for us to debate, so there is that. I have prayed about this for several years as my daughter is approaching dating age, and for years I believed dating was ok, as long as it was for marriage, then I watched a college seminar a few months ago and that changed everything, He basically said that God does not honor the dating scene: I recommend you watch the whole series. He does not say dating is a sin, He redefines dating to incorporate ' no physical' So no kissing, no making out, no long inappropriate hugging or heavy petting. None of that is actually honored by the Bible. And you can do that as well, you can date, but don't do so for the status of dating, and don't do so for the physical aspect of it. Just do so for the purpose of getting married. In which you may as well just be engaged for that matter, not even dating. So at that point I said that the current definition of dating, as employed by culture, is sinful. A dating scene that dates for status and for the benefits of making out with a girl before marriage, is not honored by the Bible. Anyway here is the video, if you fast forward to about the 20 minute mark and watch the rest of the video, he will say stuff very similar:

Dating: HOW pt. 1

 

[Isilwen]

Maybe this will adress your post more sufficiently, I already adressed why I believe their was a variance in how our prayers were answered or were not answered. As far as the allegations of me having pre marital sex, to me that is no different than kissing, or rubbing a girls thigh, or stroking her inappropriately. See any physical interaction with another sister is prohibited in 1 Tim 5, as I have been debating the last few pages. See you would not french kiss your sister, and you would not grab your mothers thigh, or buttocks inappropriately. And neither should you do so to your 'sisters in the Lord.' We are to treat them in 'all purity' it says. So I am a prime example of why dating does not work, I guess you can also label me as a bad example of dating, if you so wish. But no one has given a good example for us to debate, so there is that. I have prayed about this for several years as my daughter is approaching dating age, and for years I believed dating was ok, as long as it was for marriage, then I watched a college seminar a few months ago and that changed everything, He basically said that God does not honor the dating scene: I recommend you watch the whole series. He does not say dating is a sin, He redefines dating to incorporate ' no physical' So no kissing, no making out, no long inappropriate hugging or heavy petting. None of that is actually honored by the Bible. And you can do that as well, you can date, but don't do so for the status of dating, and don't do so for the physical aspect of it. Just do so for the purpose of getting married. In which you may as well just be engaged for that matter, not even dating. So at that point I said that the current definition of dating, as employed by culture, is sinful. A dating scene that dates for status and for the benefits of making out with a girl before marriage, is not honored by the Bible. Anyway here is the video, if you fast forward to about the 20 minute mark and watch the rest of the video, he will say stuff very similar:

Dating: HOW pt. 1

Nope, you're still not getting it.

 

[createdtoworship]

Nope, you're still not getting it.

that's ok sir, just explain your question a little more clearly so that both myself and the readers of this thread may understand you. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Archivist]

I apologize, please use the quotation feature of christian forums and quote the posts you wish for me to address, I have about three debates going on I don't have time to scan threads for posts I may or may not have adressed. Thank you for your patience.

I have provided evidence that says that 1 Timothy applies to pastors. You have been asked numerous times to provide evidence that says otherwise. You have provided nothing other than to repeatedly offer your opinion. Why is it so difficult for you to provide material from noted experts? Perhaps because all the experts agree with me. You have twice falsely accused me of saying that the letter was written to only Timothy, despite the fact that the evidence I provided clearly said that it was written to Timothy and other pastors. You insist on making stuff up.

I raised Rachel and Jacob. They kissed when they first met. I provided evidence that the kiss was romantic—Jacob instantly fell in love with the beautiful Rachel. You have denied this, but again you have failed to provide any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof rests with the affirmative, which is you. You have not made your case and therefore have lost this debate.

 

[createdtoworship]

I have provided evidence that says that 1 Timothy applies to pastors. You have been asked numerous times to provide evidence that says otherwise. You have provided nothing other than to repeatedly offer your opinion. Why is it so difficult for you to provide material from noted experts? Perhaps because all the experts agree with me. You have twice falsely accused me of saying that the letter was written to only Timothy, despite the fact that the evidence I provided clearly said that it was written to Timothy and other pastors. You insist on making stuff up.

I raised Rachel and Jacob. They kissed when they first met. I provided evidence that the kiss was romantic—Jacob instantly fell in love with the beautiful Rachel. You have denied this, but again you have failed to provide any evidence to support your claim.

Burden of proof rests with the affirmative, which is you. You have not made your case and therefore have lost this debate.

I already addressed the idea of timothy only being written to pastors here (last week):

sir let me repeat. Just because a letter is to a leader, does not mean it does not trickle down to who that person is leading, especially if the letter regards teaching those whom the leader is to lead.

 

[Archivist]

I already addressed the idea of timothy only being written to pastors here (last week):

But, again, it was specific instructions for pastors. Of course other Christians will read it, but the instructions were to church leaders. All you are providing is your opinion. Provide evidence please. Why is that so difficult for you?

 

[createdtoworship]

But, again, it was specific instructions for pastors. Of course other Christians will read it, but the instructions were to church leaders. All you are providing is your opinion. Provide evidence please. Why is that so difficult for you?

I asked you earlier, 1 Timothy 5 is about treating one another in the church in a pure manner, so if it is only for pastors and not the congregation, which pastors had problems with purity? I await your reply. At this point you will back peddle and say, "it's not toward pastors only." Refuting what you said a few posts ago, here:

I have provided evidence that says that 1 Timothy applies to pastors. You have been asked numerous times to provide evidence that says otherwise.

so again you can ask for evidence over and over again, and I post it over and over again.

 

[Archivist]

I asked you earlier, 1 Timothy 5 is about treating one another in the church in a pure manner, so if it is only for pastors and not the congregation, which pastors had problems with purity? I await your reply. At this point you will back peddle and say, "it's not toward pastors only."

I can’t tell you what pastors had problems with purity. We don’t know how many pastors there were in the early church. With a few exceptions we don’t know their names. As I said earlier, it is possible that none of them had problems with purity. Paul was simply stating how pastors were to deal with their congregation. You seem to have forgotten my saying that, just as you have ignored so many things. And no, I have not back peddled on anything.

so again you can ask for evidence over and over again, and I post it over and over again.

Yes, I have asked you for evidence over and over. You have not posted ANY evidence. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. All you post is your opinion. Don’t say that you have posted evidence “over and over.” You haven’t. You admitted that you are not an expert in ancient Jewish culture; your opinion does not qualify as evidence.

Your only explanation that dating is a sin thus far is that God told you that it was in answer to a prayer. Yet another poster said he prayed about it and God didn’t tell him that dating is a sin. Did you ever think that you might not have heard right? After all, we agree that premarital sex is wrong. But many people date and do not engage in premarital sex. Kissing? I offered the example of Jacob and Rachel. Your reply was that they were only kissing because they were cousins, but I provided evidence from experts who know the language and culture, showing that Jacob kissed Rachel because he was in love with her. To support your position you, as usual, provided absolutely no evidence, just your opinion. You lose.

 

[createdtoworship]

I can’t tell you what pastors had problems with purity. We don’t know how many pastors there were in the early church. With a few exceptions we don’t know their names. As I said earlier, it is possible that none of them had problems with purity. Paul was simply stating how pastors were to deal with their congregation. You seem to have forgotten my saying that, just as you have ignored so many things. And no, I have not back peddled on anything.



Yes, I have asked you for evidence over and over. You have not posted ANY evidence. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. All you post is your opinion. Don’t say that you have posted evidence “over and over.” You haven’t. You admitted that you are not an expert in ancient Jewish culture; your opinion does not qualify as evidence.

Your only explanation that dating is a sin thus far is that God told you that it was in answer to a prayer. Yet another poster said he prayed about it and God didn’t tell him that dating is a sin. Did you ever think that you might not have heard right? After all, we agree that premarital sex is wrong. But many people date and do not engage in premarital sex. Kissing? I offered the example of Jacob and Rachel. Your reply was that they were only kissing because they were cousins, but I provided evidence from experts who know the language and culture, showing that Jacob kissed Rachel because he was in love with her. To support your position you, as usual, provided absolutely no evidence, just your opinion. You lose.

sir my evidence is scripture itself, in which you say without evidence that 1 timothy was ONLY to pastors and not to the congregation, no commentary says that. Your commentary merely says it was to pastors, but it doesn't say it wasn't to the congregation. And when I bring it up you back peddle and actually agree with it, refuting your whole argument all together. So I am not sure where to go to from here. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Tokitee]

I'm glad I decided to stay single.
This is all confusing...

 

[createdtoworship]

duplicate

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm glad I decided to stay single.
This is all confusing...

yes scripture is pretty straighforward. But arguments become conviluted and confusing when people try to talk their way out of taking scripture literally. I know because I used to do that myself. I would study book after book, dozens and dozens of volumes to try to make a verse go away that I didn't like. I ultimately lost my mind, literally over doctrine, and trying to make verses go away that I Didn't want there, or that didn't agree with my view. God ultimately won the battle however. And now I take Him at His word. I believe every verse is there by divine inspiration. And after I submitted to Him and His word He healed my mind as well, God blessed us when we believe what He says and not to try to explain it away because it doesn't jive well with our flesh. @Archivist literally has argued a biblical case for public nudity out of scripture. I am not joking. I have another thread on modesty, and he posted dozens and dozens of posts trying to say it was moral to go to a nudist beach. So I take everything with a grain of salt, and do this for the other posters really. I know he is set in his views and nothing can change his mind, but I do all this for other posters to see the logic.

 

[Archivist]

sir my evidence is scripture itself, in which you say without evidence that 1 timothy was ONLY to pastors and not to the congregation, no commentary says that. Your commentary merely says it was to pastors, but it doesn't say it wasn't to the congregation.

The evidence I provided says that it was to Timothy and other pastors. It was very clear. You, on the other hand, have provided no evidence. If it is as clear as you say there should be plenty of material out there for you to cite. But you have provided nothing.

And when I bring it up you back peddle and actually agree with it, refuting your whole argument all together. So I am not sure where to go to from here. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

Now you are bringing false charges because I have done no such thing.

You have list this debate.

 

[createdtoworship]

The evidence I provided says that it was to Timothy and other pastors. It was very clear. You, on the other hand, have provided no evidence. If it is as clear as you say there should be plenty of material out there for you to cite. But you have provided nothing.


Now you are bringing false charges because I have done no such thing.

You have list this debate.

ok then please quote the commentary where it excludes the congregation. Most commentators apply timothy to the church. For instance the book trains timothy on practical tools to use to minister to the church, it does not ever apply ONLY to pastors. So an exclusion is necessary to prove your point perfectly, and I assume you can't do that. So it fails. Thank you for the debate. But at this point I feel this has been sufficiently refuted. Take care.

 

[Archivist]

ok then please quote the commentary where it excludes the congregation. Most commentators apply timothy to the church. For instance the book trains timothy on practical tools to use to minister to the church, it does not ever apply ONLY to pastors. So an exclusion is necessary to prove your point perfectly, and I assume you can't do that. So it fails. Thank you for the debate. But at this point I feel this has been sufficiently refuted. Take care.

Burden of proof rests with the affirmative. I have provided evidence in support of my position, you have provided nothing. You lose. Why can’t you figure that out?

 

[createdtoworship]

Burden of proof rests with the affirmative. I have provided evidence in support of my position, you have provided nothing. You lose. Why can’t you figure that out?

Lets try this another way.... There was a view hundreds of years ago that the scripture was only for the clergy and not for the laity. A reformation was started because of such dogma, and eventually bibles were printed in hundreds of languages, simply for believing that scripture is for everybody. Not just clergy.