Darkness becoming more and more accepted, and not exposed

Episaw

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I have no issue with you personally believing marriage is for a man and a women and for you stating the same and carrying that out in your private life. Now, in public interactions, the compelling reasons states have to assure equality of treatment, may cause you distress, because others don't agree with you.
What is a "compelling reason states have to?"
 
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Cearbhall

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When you talk to non Christians about Christian things, they'll be all too happy to tell you what the law or Supreme Court says. That's what they value.
Yes, I do have great pride and respect for my country.
 
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Episaw

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When you talk to non Christians about Christian things, they'll be all too happy to tell you what the law or Supreme Court says. That's what they value.
Yes, their worldview is limited to see, hear and touch.
 
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Aldebaran

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Yes, I do have great pride and respect for my country.

That's fine. Now can you understand why a Christian would have the same respect for God and what they believe He wants them to do, and not do?
 
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Cearbhall

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That's fine. Now can you understand why a Christian would have the same respect for God and what they believe He wants them to do, and not do?
Of course. I used to be a Christian.

But just because you want to do something doesn't make it right or legally sound. "Religious belief" is not a "I can do whatever I want and control people however I want" card.
 
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Aldebaran

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Of course. I used to be a Christian.

When you were a Christian, did you obey God because you wanted to? How about the laws of the land you say you respect so much? Do you only follow the law because you want to?

But just because you want to do something doesn't make it right or legally sound. "Religious belief" is not a "I can do whatever I want and control people however I want" card.

But if I was a business owner, I wouldn't be there to have anyone else control me however they want either. People don't go into business to be controlled. They do it because it gives them freedom and control over themselves.
 
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Episaw

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When you were a Christian, did you obey God because you wanted to? How about the laws of the land you say you respect so much? Do you only follow the law because you want to?

But if I was a business owner, I wouldn't be there to have anyone else control me however they want either. People don't go into business to be controlled. They do it because it gives them freedom and control over themselves.

So true. As I have had my own business, the freedom it gives you is amazing. No one else to complain if you only work 24 hours a day.
 
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Freodin

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Even soldiers are allowed to be a conscientious objector, the definition being: "A conscientious objector is an "individual who has claimed the right to refuse to perform military service" on the grounds of freedom of thought, conscience, or religion."
That's quite funny.

Let's analyse this. First, you need a system where there is mandatory military service. There is no need for conscientious objectors in systems where there isn't conscription.

So you are either conscripted into the military and object, your objection is accepted... and you don't go on to be a soldier. Or your objection is not accepted, but you are granted to gracious mercy of not having to kill anyone, but to perform supportive duties. Well, you might call that being a soldier.

But the problem still is: YOU START BY BEING FRIGGING FORCED TO BE IN THE MILITARY!

If you want to compare being conscripted with opening a bakery... well, suit yourself. You cannot lower my opinion of some people any more.
 
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Aldebaran

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So true. As I have had my own business, the freedom it gives you is amazing. No one else to complain if you only work 24 hours a day.

:)
 
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Freodin

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That's fine. Now can you understand why a Christian would have the same respect for God and what they believe He wants them to do, and not do?
And you think that the state should allow anyone to do and not do what they think God want them to do or not do?
 
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Aldebaran

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That's quite funny.

Let's analyse this. First, you need a system where there is mandatory military service. There is no need for conscientious objectors in systems where there isn't conscription.

So you are either conscripted into the military and object, your objection is accepted... and you don't go on to be a soldier. Or your objection is not accepted, but you are granted to gracious mercy of not having to kill anyone, but to perform supportive duties. Well, you might call that being a soldier.

But the problem still is: YOU START BY BEING FRIGGING FORCED TO BE IN THE MILITARY!

If you want to compare being conscripted with opening a bakery... well, suit yourself. You cannot lower my opinion of some people any more.

Allow me to be more specific, since it's clear you didn't understand. If you are given orders to do something in the military that you believe is wrong, you don't have to obey those orders. I'm sure you've heard about that.
 
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Aldebaran

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And you think that the state should allow anyone to do and not do what they think God want them to do or not do?

You mean like force someone to help to celebrate a "wedding" that God has told them is an abomination? Oh yeah, that's what the secularists want. Never mind.
 
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Freodin

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Allow me to be more specific, since it's clear you didn't understand. If you are given orders to do something in the military that you believe is wrong, you don't have to obey those orders. I'm sure you've heard about that.
And you would be wrong here. First, this would not be a conscientious objector, and definitly not in the way you posted. Second, you cannot simply disobey an order you believe is wrong... you can only object unlawful orders. And here you can even get away with "believing" that an order is unlawful.

But just wrong... depending on the situation that could get you in a hell of trouble.
 
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Freodin

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You mean like force someone to help to celebrate a "wedding" that God has told them is an abomination? Oh yeah, that's what the secularists want. Never mind.
You mean selling cakes as a baker? Or sacrificing virgins? Or not paying taxes?

Where do you draw the line... that I want to know?
 
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Aldebaran

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You mean selling cakes as a baker? Or sacrificing virgins? Or not paying taxes?

You know exactly what we're talking about. If haven't figured it out yet and don't know how, then this isn't a thread you'll be able to make constructive contributions to.
 
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bhsmte

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I must admit I find it amusing when I read that someone trying to trash all things religious on here say "I used to be a Christian" and give the impression that makes them an expert on the topic.

The good news for you is, no matter if someone disagrees with you, you are still able to believe what you like and live your personal life in the matter you choose.
 
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Audacious

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In Australia, it is the bloody-mindedness of the homosexuals that is the sticking point. They can have a civil union ceremony, one without God involved but they said that is not good enough.

In many countries, civil unions and marriages have different rights, with the married people having more tax writeoffs and more rights given.

Civil unions exist in my country as well, but I'd much rather my boyfriend and I get married than civil unioned. For the above reasons.

They want a fully fledged marriage in a church even though various individuals have said churches cannot be forced to marry two men or two women.
Many churches in the US willingly marry homosexuals. I'm sure Australia is similar.

That is what they said in other countries that have legalised SSM but slowly these exceptions are being removed and ministers are being fined or sent to jail if they won't marry two men or two women.
Please list at least one real-world example of this ever happening.

And another reason we hope it is not legalised because Benjamin Black a leading homosexual in the debate has said SSM is only the beginning. Their ultimate aim is the toppling of society so that anything goes and everything is lawful, even man/boy love.
Yeah, this sounds totes legit.
 
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Cearbhall

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I must admit I find it amusing when I read that someone trying to trash all things religious on here say "I used to be a Christian" and give the impression that makes them an expert on the topic.
Trash all things religious? Who?

And the impression you got is not the impression I gave. I was answering a question. Answering in the affirmative that I understand one thing because I have experienced it personally is not a claim of expertise. You're grasping at straws.
 
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PsychoSarah

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You mean like force someone to help to celebrate a "wedding" that God has told them is an abomination?
-_- the bible also says consuming shrimp is an abomination... in the same book in which homosexuality is called an abomination. If you actually followed the bible, you don't wear clothes of mixed fibers (no cotton and polyester blend for you), you don't have tattoos, and if your brother dies before leaving an heir, you have sex with his widow until she gets pregnant.

Other abominations:
1. Wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. Yahweh is really strict on dress code.
2. Breaking promises. I challenge you to find someone that hasn't done that at least once.
3. Having sex with a woman that is on her period. A simple one to avoid, I just find it funny that having sex with a woman can be considered as much an "abomination" as homosexuality in the bible, under that circumstance.
4. Lending money to a person of the same faith as yourself and expecting interest back. So, banks are abominations.
5. Incest. This has to be the most ironic one, considering how many protagonists in the bible commit incest.
6. Remarrying a woman after you have divorced her, assuming she got remarried to another man that either divorced her as well or died. Was this a common sequence of events in the past?
7. Giving an offering to a church or to fulfill a vow that was earned through prostitution. Weirdly specific, but how would a merchant keep track of the occupations of his patrons well enough to ensure prostitution money wasn't used?

From what I have read, the term "abominations" applies to idols the most in the bible, but anything from lying to murder is considered an abomination, with some nonsensical ones speckled in.


Oh yeah, that's what the secularists want. Never mind.
You wouldn't stand for a Muslim refusing to, say, let you use grocery carts because you wanted to buy alcohol. You wouldn't stand for a pastor refusing to proceed with your wedding because the buffet served crab cakes. You wouldn't stand for a doctor that believed in crystal healing refusing to give your child a necessary blood transfusion.
 
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